Originally posted by slymattb
badmedia you cant say Jesus is a great preacher and teacher and not believe in underthings he said. You either believe his teaching and all of them or
Well for starters, I don't believe in anything
Jesus says simply because Jesus says it. And I don't know who you think you are to tell me
how I am to believe and how I am not to believe.
Sorry, but those kinds of things do not work for me at all. If Jesus was wrong about something, I would definitely say so.
I have 1 true authority that I follow, and that is the father. I don't accept or believe in things simply because the bible said it. I know and
understand because I know the father, and it is the father who taught me these things.
In other words - I know what Jesus knew and I have the same source for that knowledge. I have experienced the 2nd birth and I have meet the father.
And I did it without even knowing the bible mentioned it at all.
You guys are changing what it means when he gives his life for others. Proof of this can be found with the rich man who comes to Jesus.
That rich man believes Jesus is who he says he is. That rich man then asks - what does he need to do. Does Jesus tell him just to wait until he
is dead, and then believe he did for your sins? NO! Not even close. He tells that rich man he must walk the path and keep the commandments.
The rich man says he has, but Jesus points out to him that he has much material wealth and he should give it to the poor - which he will not do.
But under your religion, if I were to tell that same rich man the exact same things Jesus said, you would tell me I'm wrong. You tell me I need to
believe Jesus died on the cross for my sins and so forth. And I know for a fact
that is not true. If it were the truth, then the father
would have told me so.
5O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.
6Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.
7For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.
8All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.
9They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.
10Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.
11For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.
12I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.
13The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
14Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.
15By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
16By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.
17I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
18Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
19My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.
20I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
21That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.
This is not talking about finding a bible. It is not talking about finding a religion. It is talking about those who find the father early will
receive wisdom and understanding.
5Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.
6For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
7But they like men have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.
Of which Jesus repeats:
13But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
But your religion is based on a sacrifice. Does Jesus say he has come to be a sacrifice? No, he says he comes to bring sinners to repentance.
That is quite a bit different than believing he died on the cross for your sins. Appaerently, according to your religion that is what it means to
repent for sins - believe Jesus died on the cross for your sins.
But I know better
Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for
So, in order to bring sinners to repentance, he needs to give those people understanding. Why does Jesus speak in parables? To give understanding.
And his life is an example for people to see how to properly follow the commandments.
Do you know what it means to be among "those who can hear, and those who can see"? It means that person has understanding, or is seeking
Like the movie White men can't jump - you can listen to Jimi - but do you hear Jimi? The difference and what is being referred to is - do you
understand what the words mean. That is what it means to hear.
If you can "hear" Jesus, then you can hear the father. I did that in the other way, I heard the father and now when I read Jesus - I hear and see
the father in his words. There is no doubt here and I don't have to take it on faith either.
He is conspired against and killed by the powers of this earth for this reason. So that they could keep their power. And that have, and they will
until the return of Jesus/truth.
So to worship and find salvation in the death of Jesus, is to find salvation in the lie. It means the truth had to die in order for you to live.
And if the truth has to be sacrificed in order for you to live, then you are finding salvation in a lie.
It's the father within Jesus I know, recognize and follow. Of which the bible and religion itself acts as a replacement for. What do you think
Jesus meant by the Pharisees sit in the seat of moses? It means they have replaced "moses" for themselves. Same thing, here, the bible and
religion sit in the seat of the father. It acts as a replacement.
And a house that has not been built with the parts in the proper places will fall no matter what the quality of the material itself is.
4Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: as for him that wanteth understanding, she(wisdom) saith to him,
5Come, eat of my bread, and drink of the wine which I have mingled.
6Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.
7He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame: and he that rebuketh a wicked man getteth himself a blot.
8Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.
9Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.
10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
It's not about accepting that Jesus died on the cross for your sins, it's about finding understanding and wisdom, so that you can walk the path and
actually follow him, and the light of that path is wisdom and understanding, and Jesus is that light on earth because that is what he gives to
Now. Why in the world would I want to replace that which has been given to me by the father, for the blind faith in all of the bible, from the
perspective of men and a church who seemed to miss the part about not turning yourself into authority figures?
Lets assume my experience never happened and I'm crazy, and you are right. I need to take only the bible for it. The bible says knowledge of
the holy is understanding, so again I must still ask - what is the understanding? I ask over and over - what is the understanding, what is the
understanding behind this sacrifice. I get none in return.
What you are asking me to do is the equivalent of getting me to accept 4+4=5 is true based on faith, when the understanding I have been given shows me
that is not true. I simply can not ignore the understanding given to me and accept things I see and know to be untrue.
All I can say is while I disagree with you guys completely, I will always stick up for your right and freedom to believe it, and I hope that one day
you find the father, and gain the understanding he gives to those who do. Seek and you will find, but you will always find that which you seek -
so be mindful of what you are seeking. Meaning - seek the truth, the light, the way and the light. That is what I was seeking when I found the
father, and if you want to call that Jesus, then that is fine with me. I don't think it's coincidence that he defines himself as those things
when he says only by him does one come to the father.