A conspiracy in the LGBT community: Bisexual Erasure

This was one of those 'I don't know where this goes - general board!' threads so yea.

I'll preface this by saying I'm a bisexual guy.

So I hadn't heard of Bisexual Erasure before until one of my bi friends brought it up. Of course the first thing I thought ATS, the conspiracy forums. I went to search and no threads had been made on this and not even any result found via a word & phrase search. Right, so to the main point..

Bisexual Erasure.

Bisexual erasure is the tendency to ignore, remove, falsify, or reexplain evidence of bisexuality in the historical record, academic materials, the news media, and other primary sources.

In its most extreme form, bisexual erasure can include denying that bisexual people actually exist.

[Wiki]

That second bit surprises me, it's not happened to my but I've heard about it happening rather a lot.

Bisexual erasure may stem from a belief that bisexual people do not deserve equal status or inclusion within gay and lesbian communities.[5] This can take the form of omitting the word bisexual in the name of an organization or event that serves the whole LGBT community.

Homosexual people who engage in bisexual erasure may claim that bisexuals are actually closeted gay people who wish to appear heterosexual, or conversely that bisexuals are simply heterosexuals who are "experimenting" with their sexuality.[6] Another common manifestation of bisexual erasure is a tendency for bisexuals to be referred to as 'straight' or heterosexual when they are intimately involved with people of the oppposite sex, and to be labeled as homosexual when they are involved with partners of the same sex.

It is also common for gay writers and activists to portray bisexual and gender blurring behaviors in ancient and non-Western cultures, such as ancient Greek pederasty or Native American Two Spirited people, as proof that homosexuality has been widely accepted in other times and cultures.[7]

In some cases, gay commentators in the American and British media have portrayed individuals caught in scandals involving same-sex affairs as homosexual, despite bisexual behavior and lifestyle. As do gay commentators and the gay media, the mainstream media also tends to lump anyone identified with any homosexual or same-sex partners as gay; in some cases, even those who specifically identify as bisexual or have a clear history of significant experience with both same and opposite-sex partners.

Not exactly on for us less-than-fussy lovers, to be euphemistic.


Oh and I would also take this opportunity to address a few myths and stereotypes about bisexuals.

Bisexuals are promiscuous/get loads of action
Like being gay or straight, being bisexual is more than having sex. Having emotional relationships is just as important for some bi people as getting laid is for others, just like any other sexuality.

Bisexuals can't be faithful to one gender/ can't be monogamous
Bisexuality isn't significantly different to any other sexuality, and people are generally monogamous, although again, like straight or gay people, some are polyamorous.

Bisexuals spread STI's
STI's don't discriminate, some sexual practices are more risky than others, but calling yourself bisexual, or having a bisexual partner does not increase your chances of getting one, having unsafe sex no matter who you sleep with, does.

Bisexuality is a phase
No doubt for some people bisexuality is a phase. When coming out it's not uncommon for guys to hear from older gay people, "So was I, darling" amidst other condescensions. For the girls, some people think they're just saying it to get guys. But truth is, bisexuality is just another sexual orientation, and just as real.

(the myth stuff) www.cusu-lbgt.com...



Can I get a holla from any other bi people out there on the internets?

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Welfhard]

I know some bisexuals, although their all girls? Umm, well I'm only just now finding out that their half gay... I guess that's how you put it...

I never would've guessed, I mean, I remember talking to them and they'd be so raunchy, it's weird to be like, oh and you like girls?

Their cool about it though, they tend to get alot of flack from family though.

From my viewpoint of my newfound bisexuals, their really no different in any way.

I half expected them to start dressing like Tom Green... maybe even grow a beard with rogain. Nope they stayed girls.

I have heard nothing of bisexuals in the historic way.

Lol, I know nothing of this topic, it's so funny, just from what i've seen I guess?

Edit to add: Just to make clear, I'm a Straight, Male, uhhh Caucasian.

Interests, Religion, short walks on the beach. Physics, Astronomy.

Lol, the world is a crazy place, all sorts of people.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Republican08]

reply to post by Republican08


Heh yea, we manage to stay under the radar pretty well.

You know some people have managed even to snap blurry and fleeting photos of us walking in the woods - even collected foot prints and hair fibres - but nay the skeptics still insist we don't exist!

Alas....

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Welfhard]

Originally posted by Welfhard
reply to post by Republican08

 

Heh yea, we manage to stay under the radar pretty well.

You know some people have managed even to snap blurry and fleeting photos of us walking in the woods - even collected foot prints and hair fibres - but nay the skeptics still insist we don't exist!

Alas....

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Welfhard]

Lmao, you changed your photo, I thought someone else responded.

I literally thought, holy crap their popping up everywhere.

But seriously, I'd say out of my class 1 out of 9 of the girls, turned out to either be completely gay or bisexual, and more commonly bisexual.

I'm not into religion, and for those who are may feel the same.

I have no problem with gays or half gays. But it makes me wonder what evolutionary process rendered this...

Maybe one of life's mysteries.

All I know, is their are no gays or bi's in Iran. Or... their aren't now... yikes.

Good to know their are people out their that take pride in it, while in certain places or certain times, that'd get you killed!

reply to post by Republican08

Lol, I know nothing of this topic, it's so funny, just from what i've seen I guess?

I would love to teach. Ask anything if you wanna know.


I changed my avatar for this thread actually. Somehow Boba Fett just isn't as suave as the spy.

Girls have an easier time of it than boys. Girls are encouraged to do F/F stuff for the entertainment of guys (I've seen this at uni parties myself and it seems that with the application of enough alcohol, girls may loose the concept of gender ).

There is an instilled kind of homophobia for guys in a lot of the western world. I think there are probably as many bi girls as their are bi guys.

I'm not into religion, and for those who are may feel the same.

It was actually deconverting from Christianity that allowed me to face and acknowledge that part of me was more than a little curious about guys.

I have no problem with gays or half gays. But it makes me wonder what evolutionary process rendered this...

1stly, every bi will view their sexuality differently. I look mine not being between gay and straight but rather being both simultaneously. Being with girls and being with guys feels very different and the whole system of attraction works different for each as well - it's very complicated and convoluted.

2ndly, you are running very fast at a can-o-worms with a can opener. i have my theories as to why these alternate sexualities happen but I worry that voicing them here may drag the thread off topic completely - those gay genetics threads got pretty fiery.

Good to know their are people out their that take pride in it, while in certain places or certain times, that'd get you killed!

Thanks, although I wouldn't call it pride per se. I find it hard to be proud about something out of my control, ya know?

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Welfhard]

Originally posted by Welfhard
With the application of enough alcohol, girls may lose the concept of gender

Brilliantly put. Your post deserves a star just for that.

'Bisexual erasure' is an awfully big word, but there's no denying that something of the sort is happening in the western world.

I think it is because homosexuals in the West, and particularly in America, are at a watershed moment in their quest for recognition and acceptance. They're probably afraid that any blurring of the (imaginary) line between straight and gay would muddy the waters and perhaps wipe out many of the gains they have made.

I think there are probably as many bi girls as their are bi guys.

Oh, definitely. Up to a generation or two ago, it was not at all unusual for male adolescents in my country to indulge in a little bit of mutual stimulation from time to time, up to and including intracrural (but not penetrative) intercourse. But with increasing westernization has come a general adoption of the gay taboo, and things have turned pretty nasty for gays and bis. All that is left of the old tolerance is an underground cottage industry (so to speak) in selling young boys to male tourists. Horrid.

Although my own sexual experiences have all been straight (I really, really love women), I would be lying if I said I hadn't been attracted to a few members of my own sex over the years. Would I sleep with them, though, given the opportunity? Well, the opportunity has arisen, more than once, and I haven't. I have the typical hetero's visceral aversion to homosex, which is no more culturally conditioned than homosexuality is but, as far as I can see, equally instinctive.

If you're bisexual, please don't get erased. You're one of my favourite people on ATS.

Edit to add:

Being with girls and being with guys feels very different and the whole system of attraction works different for each as well - it's very complicated and convoluted.

I would love to hear more about this.

[edit on 21/8/09 by Astyanax]

To qualify my post, I should say I am str8 and female. For the record, I am an atheist and I believe homosexuality and the other spectrums of sexuality that exist are natural. People with alternate sexualities should not be shunned, discriminated against, and should be allowed to marry.

I do agree the LGBT community feels uncomfortable about bisexual people and would rather not talk about them.

IMHO, engaging in a sex act with someone of the same sex does not define one's sexual orientation.

Sexual orientation is about the ability to feel romantic love for a particular gender. If you only feel capable of feeling romantic love with the opposite sex, you are heterosexual. If you only feel capable of feeling romantic love with the same sex, you are homosexual. If you feel capable of feeling romantic love for either sexes, you are bisexual.

There are plenty of straight guys who would let another guy give them a blow job. That doesn't make them gay or bi, it makes them open minded and horny. Experimenting with mutual sexual pleasure with a member of the same sex when one is an adolescent does not make one bisexual or homosexual.

It's all about the love, baby.

The LGBT community line is that one's sexuality is not a conscious choice. If God made me gay, how can it be a sin? Bisexual people make them feel uncomfortable because being bisexual implies the ability to choose from either side of the menu. The "It's not a choice" argument is a strong one when confronted with religious objections. They may feel bisexuality undermines their argument that homosexuality is not a sin. (Again, I think it's natural, not a sin, nothing to be ashamed of.)

My question for the bisexual is: Do you feel capable of feeling romantic love for either gender?

Examples of bisexuality in the popular culture are few and far between. There is one person on the Bravo reality show "Million Dollar Listing" who describes himself as bisexual. He was once engaged to a woman. He spends part of the season pining after her altough she has moved on to another guy. At one point someone asks him about what he is looking for in a relationship at that moment. He says something to the effect of, "If I am thinking about just having sex, I want a guy. If I am thinking about my emotional needs, I want a woman." Ariel and Maria on the Bravo reality show "Miami Social" describes themselves as bisexual. I think Ariel is just a promiscuous a-hole. (I am not implying that all bisexuals are promiscuous or a-holes, just Ariel.) Maria doesn't talk about it at all after the first episode, so I can't form an opinion about her. In my opinion both of the guys ping "gay" on my gaydar, but it's not my place to define them, or judge the way they define themselves.

I believe it is possible some people who describe themselves as bisexual are having trouble dealing with the social stigma of being gay. However I believe the social stigma of being bisexual is probably worse. You get it from both barrels from the straight and gay communities, you just might get less from the straight folks.

LGBT are a minority in our culture, and bisexuals are a tiny minority within that minority. I think most people don't have enough information to counter the LGBT attempts at erasure.

Again, I'm not bisexual, although I think bisexual men are smoking hot. Does that count?

reply to post by jsternsp

Thanks for the thoughtful response..

IMHO, engaging in a sex act with someone of the same sex does not define one's sexual orientation.

No, your right. Even virgins have a clue as to what they are and they don't inherit as sexuality on their first time. So it's more like what one feels they are capable of.

Sexual orientation is about the ability to feel romantic love for a particular gender.

That's one way to define it but there are people out there who have lots of sex but don't ultimately develop a romantic love for anyone, no long term relationships. So surely their sexuality has to be defined by the sex.

The LGBT community line is that one's sexuality is not a conscious choice. If God made me gay, how can it be a sin? Bisexual people make them feel uncomfortable because being bisexual implies the ability to choose from either side of the menu.

Sort of but I'd like to add that you don't choose how you feel but rather how you act. Bisexuals will have no more control over who they find attractive or who they fall for than anyone else.

My question for the bisexual is: Do you feel capable of feeling romantic love for either gender?

Certainly. I've experienced romance and infatuation with both genders in the past.

I believe it is possible some people who describe themselves as bisexual are having trouble dealing with the social stigma of being gay.

There was a study linked somewhere on Wikipedia that purported that around 40% of people who identify as bisexual in adolescence 10 years later identify as gay so there definitely is precedence.

You get it from both barrels from the straight and gay communities, you just might get less from the straight folks.

We get it from both sides. *Bu-dum Tish*

Again, I'm not bisexual, although I think bisexual men are smoking hot. Does that count?

And I love girls who think like you!

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Welfhard]

i wouldn't take it too personally, complex stuff is always erased or brushed over in history books.

homosexuality has been kind of frowned upon until fairly recently so it's kind of hard to tell who's genuinely bi-sexual and who's gay but married for the sake of convention. then there's the further complication that people didn't leave any evidence of homosexual liaisons for fear of prosecution so you have to wonder what's a vicious rumor and what's actual evidence of bi-sexuality.

i don't see why we need all these "identities" and classifications anyway. the classifications seem to depend more on social convention than they do on human nature, humans seem to be on a sliding scale that changes entirely dependent on time, place and circumstance.

reply to post by pieman


But people use and rely on social identities to in a way validate themselves. That's where the notion of pride events comes from.

reply to post by Welfhard


that's not very healthy though, is it? if sex and sexuality are what you use to validate yourself then you're in a lot of trouble. if you have no control over your sexuality, you have nothing to be proud of.

identify yourself by your own actions, not the actions of people you identify with.

validate yourself through the quality of your relationships, not the gender of the person you relate to.

have pride in yourself for the things you have achieved, not for the things that you are. don't be ashamed of what you are, but there's nothing to be proud of.

all very confucious says, but that's the way i think on a friday afternoon

[edit on 21/8/09 by pieman]

I've heard about this before and it sounds sexist to me. If that's the right word. It reminds me of the christian/gay thing. Form your own group and church.

Oddly enough, I've known of a few questionable females that had clitoral penises. I suppose those are even more rare. I wouldn't exactly call them hermaphrodites or intersexed, but have heard of some canine or similar species who have this.

I do wonder that since men have their extenze, what do women who want to have these take? I think that's discrimination. Maybe that's why women are told not to take it? IDK

Makes me wonder what hybrid alien species try to design.

Bi people don't seem to be at war with the system or so it seems. There are far worse things to consider, such as promiscuity and diseases. Adult cartoons like to bring this out from time to time and I wonder about their own agenda.

reply to post by pieman


I agree with you but people naturally will identify themselves by how they are different to everyone else - how they are unique and special. That's a natural human compunction.

Labels come in here to, to allow people to recognise what it is that makes a person different and unique from everyone else.

reply to post by jsternsp

Killer post. Star for you too, ma'am.

He says something to the effect of, "If I am thinking about just having sex, I want a guy. If I am thinking about my emotional needs, I want a woman."

I have met someone like this, too. In fact, he was my first intellectual mentor; we were in school together. At one point we were in love with the same girl, but somehow it never got in the way of our friendship. For him, too, true sexual satisfaction was man-made, while women were for love and confiding in. I recall him once laughing at another bisexual acquaintance who, according to him, had got it backwards - the other way round.

As we grew older he became less bi and more gay, though. He's dead now, I'm afraid; he was murdered, as it happens. The motive was clearly political, but there appears to have been a sexual element to it, too. Bisexuals live dangerously.

reply to post by Astyanax

Bisexuals live dangerously.

I feel I'll be murder someday, too.



Botched bank robbery I believe. No rest for the wicked I feel.

I recall him once laughing at another bisexual acquaintance who, according to him, had got it backwards - the other way round.

Your friend may laugh at me, aswell. Though it's no a law, I think I tend to be the otherway around more often than not. Guys are easier to connect with.

[edit on 22-8-2009 by Welfhard]

reply to post by Welfhard


It's denied so fervently because it is the most common sexuality. Heterosexuality and homosexuality are the true minorities. But no one wants to admit it.

Sexuality is made up of so much more than we are led to believe. It encompasses competition, fetish, urges, love, curiosity, friendship...

A guy (or girl) can have a completely heterosexual lifestyle, be married, start a family, but have a fetish for something sexually for the same gender. That doesn't make they gay, and the bisexuality is negligible, but it's still there.

There is clear evidence of this in the kinds of pornography out there. If the majority of men were 100% heterosexual, with no (zero, nada) interest in male genitalia at all, such films would not include men, usually impressive looking, and they certainly wouldn't focus on the male for the "ending"

Interestingly, a mens magazine (Men's Confidential) did some research a few years ago and found that 44% of the participants, the vast majority self-described as heterosexual and married, reportedly shared mutual masturbation with other men in their adult lives.

I don't understand what all the fuss and confusion is about. Isn't it better to desire more varied things? Doesn't it make life more interesting and sex more fun?

Thankfully, we are moving away from the false idea that exclusive heterosexuality is the norm and into a more bisexual era. The next generation are coming to grips with their real sexuality quickly, regardless of the labels pushed by society.

reply to post by detachedindividual


Thank you for that well thoughtout post. I regret not pulling up some numbers and studies to establish the scarcity of true and exclusive hetero/homosexuality.

But!
at the sametime I don't want to accuse anyone of lying to others or themselves when it comes to how the identify sexually. I've been accused of being a semi-closeted gay before, by a friend no less and it doesn't feel good. Since we are slowly moving into a new and more healthy sexual paradigm, I think we ought let people be what they say they are.

reply to post by Welfhard


Oh absolutely. I have always stood by the idea that no one can state another persons sexuality as something different to what they state it to be.

Without hooking a guy up to a plesmograph and testing them in front of various sexual media you can't state their sexuality to be anything.

I'm just interested in what the numbers say.

There's another bit of research conducted through survey, which shows that something like 90% of self-identifying heterosexual men would share a mild sexual experience with another man, view pornography of males (i.e. not heterosexual porn) as a part of their viewing or would rather see a male solo than a female.
I'll try to find the report.

Unfortunately such research is rare, and where it has been done the bisexuality aspect has been removed from the results. They focus almost exclusively on homosexuality, and how it relates to self-identifying heterosexual men.

Just as you say, Bisexual Erasure.

reply to post by detachedindividual

I'm just interested in what the numbers say.

I'm a bit of a numbers and trends guy, myself.

I think bisexual erasure is kind of understandable in the context of these studies. Bisexuality is the shades of grey between black and white extremes, but when it comes to numbers, since you can quantify sexuality, bisexual becomes somewhat of a redundant term. For instance I would instead of bisexual be called a Kinsey scale-3.

:/

There is a study that wikipedia has a link to somewhere that states that of those surveyed (anonymously university students) 60% were not exclusively heterosexual or homosexual. I'll see if I can find it.

reply to post by Welfhard


Now this is a very interesting topic.


As I was reading your initial post, I got the feeling that a lot of this probably comes from the fact that the LGBT community strongly says that homosexuality (referring to both males and females) is not a choice.
There's so much controversy about it too...with talks about the gay gene and such.

A friend was discussing the idea of sexuality and it being a choice or not, with me the other day. From their perspective I could see that sexuality is comparable to being much more of a preference thing (as in "I prefer tomatoes than ketchup") and it also depends on how you express it.

Is sexuality innate? Idk, is the fact that I like ice cream innate?

Do I need to flaunt the fact that I like ice cream to let other people who like ice cream know??

And can one all of the sudden decide not to like ice cream?



At the end of the day I must confess I still don't know much about anything really. Just thought I'd make that clear.



Now, the other thing about sexuality which is quite weird is it seems that Heterosexual men have no problem looking at two lesbians getting it on (even though they know they won't get any action because the women are gay). I have yet to see a large sum of Heterosexual women wanting to watch gay men get it on.
What a strange thing when you think about it.

The other thing I've noticed is that there seems to be much more concern with homosexual males. Could it be because there's more promiscuity? Statistically they are the less monogamous type of couple.

Is it that religion has an issue with certain genders loving each other or is it that it has an issue with promiscuity?


Aah, So many questions.

It seems to me that people must really care about these topics; even though people often say "Who cares?!?"
Yet, I still see these topics popping up in many places.

If people really didn't care as much as they say they do then I don't think I'd keep seeing as much talk about all these topics as I do.

Wouldn't you agree?

Prop. 8...
'Don't ask don't tell'...
Iraqi Homosexuals getting killed...
Etc...

So don't tell me people don't care.
I surmise that when people say something to the effect of, "aah well I don't care. People should be able to love whoever they want to love." is really just trying to fill in the gaps when you have no answers.
Although, it's true...but people don't stop talking about it.

I know in everyone's heart of hearts this touches you all deep to the core. Because we're talking about love here.
And clearly sexuality just adds more questions.


Am I on the right track here or...???

[edit on 22-8-2009 by Before2017Victor]