Peres: Russia to reconsider missile sale to Iran

Peres: Russia to reconsider missile sale to Iran

news.yahoo.com

MOSCOW – Israeli President Shimon Peres said Wednesday the Kremlin has promised to reconsider the planned delivery of air defense missiles to Iran that Israel and the U.S. fear could be used to protect Iran's nuclear facilities.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev made the pledge during their talks Tuesday in the Black Sea resort of Sochi, Peres said.

"President Medvedev gave a promise he will reconsider the sales of S-300s because it affects the delicate balance which exists in the Middle East," Peres told reporters via video link from Sochi.

A Kremlin spokesman wouldn't immediat

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While I would never supporting bombing the crap out of Iran, after reading of the nation's barbarism in Yemen it's important to make sure that they cannot defend themselves from air attacks.

Iran cannot have it both ways...sitting peacefully in their own country while acting as an incredibly destablizing influence in many of the Gulf nations.

If Russia would stop sending those military equipment catalogs and cancel the generous credit line, perhaps Iran would think twice about the path it is quite clearly on.

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Every day that they wait to sell it, the more obsolete it will become.

One day is a whole lot in terms of military technology in this era.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Every day that they wait to sell it, the more obsolete it will become.

One day is a whole lot in terms of military technology in this era.

When do Israel get their shipment of F-35 stealth jets? A year or 2 and then Russia's anti-air missiles systems are obselete, even the really new ones - s-500 will be obselete before they are in the hands of rogue islamics.

Originally posted by john124

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Every day that they wait to sell it, the more obsolete it will become.

One day is a whole lot in terms of military technology in this era.

When do Israel get their shipment of F-35 stealth jets? A year or 2 and then Russia's anti-air missiles systems are obselete, even the really new ones - s-500 will be obselete before they are in the hands of rogue islamics.

S-300 is superior to the Patriot, and S-400 is twice as capable.

However I doubt Israel will be armed with F-35s for another 5-10 years. Until then, S-300 will be more than capable at taking down F-4s and F-16s.

[edit on 19-8-2009 by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi]

Originally posted by IDK88


While I would never supporting bombing the crap out of Iran, after reading of the nation's barbarism in Yemen it's important to make sure that they cannot defend themselves from air attacks.

Iran cannot have it both ways...sitting peacefully in their own country while acting as an incredibly destablizing influence in many of the Gulf nations.

If Russia would stop sending those military equipment catalogs and cancel the generous credit line, perhaps Iran would think twice about the path it is quite clearly on.

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

How many middle eastern countries has Iran invaded in the past 10 years?

Do you think that Iran wanting nuclear weapons has anything to do with the fact that Israel and Pakistan has them? Do you think that Iran wanting nuclear weapons and the S300 system from Russian has anything to do with the american invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan?
Where was the international community when Pakistan was developing their nuclear arsenal? Or did it suit us not to say anything to Pakistan?

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by john124

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Every day that they wait to sell it, the more obsolete it will become.

One day is a whole lot in terms of military technology in this era.

When do Israel get their shipment of F-35 stealth jets? A year or 2 and then Russia's anti-air missiles systems are obselete, even the really new ones - s-500 will be obselete before they are in the hands of rogue islamics.

S-300 is superior to the Patriot, and S-400 is twice as capable.

However I doubt Israel will be armed with F-35s for another 5-10 years. Until then, S-300 will be more than capable at taking down F-4s and F-16s.

[edit on 19-8-2009 by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi]

If that's the case I can't see the Kremlin selling such advanced weaponry to the regime , if the S-300 is a match for everything non-stealthy. F22 and B-2 Stealth from the US air-force are superior enough.

Originally posted by madeioo

Originally posted by IDK88


While I would never supporting bombing the crap out of Iran, after reading of the nation's barbarism in Yemen it's important to make sure that they cannot defend themselves from air attacks.

Iran cannot have it both ways...sitting peacefully in their own country while acting as an incredibly destablizing influence in many of the Gulf nations.

If Russia would stop sending those military equipment catalogs and cancel the generous credit line, perhaps Iran would think twice about the path it is quite clearly on.

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

How many middle eastern countries has Iran invaded in the past 10 years?

Do you think that Iran wanting nuclear weapons has anything to do with the fact that Israel and Pakistan has them? Do you think that Iran wanting nuclear weapons and the S300 system from Russian has anything to do with the american invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan?
Where was the international community when Pakistan was developing their nuclear arsenal? Or did it suit us not to say anything to Pakistan?

Nah you're right the Iranian regime only targets civilians thru' proxy wars by arming terrorist groups in various middle eastern countries.... but that's OK because they aren't directly attacking anybody.

The question should be - do the Iranian people want this tyrannical regime to obtain a nuke?

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
S-300 is superior to the Patriot, and S-400 is twice as capable.

The only significant area in which the S-300/S-400 family of SAMs is "superior" to the Patriot is in pure physical performance of the missile, as is to be expected of a missile that size. However, as far as sensors go, electronics, software, command and control, etc... the Russian family of SAMs are inferior to their Western counterparts.

This is significant, as there are currently systems operational with the USAF which give it a credible stand off passive and active ability to infiltrate IADS networks. All relevant sensors nodes, command and control nodes, and in the near future even the actual launch vehicle and the missile itself, will be vulnerable to intrusion, modification, paralyzation, and destruction. All without firing a shot. Even non VLO, and non SEAD/DEAD assets, will be able to operate in cleared corridors backed by an intense electronic warfare package. By the time a mediocre OPFOR like Iran even realizes whats going on, lead on target will have already happened.

Smoke and mirrors, export sales and diplomatic leverage. All these developing world regimes who hold on to their Russian hardware like it's going to protect them (if we really wanted to take them out) will just be holding a candle to a hurricane.

[edit on 19-8-2009 by WestPoint23]

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


I heard they making an S-500. This is troubling, and I don't mean for American warplanes, but that S-300 and S-400 was never meant to do what was advertised, and performed well as it should.

reply to post by madeioo


Iran is constantly involving itself in matters that do not concern it. First and foremost among their interference into other people's personal business is the status of Jerusalem. What's the deal with calling Jerusalem Quds? The status of that city is the concern of no Persian...and everytime that word comes out of the mouth of Ahmahdinejad or his Supreme Leader, someone should be close by to slap him back to reality.

Israel was forced to bomb Beirut because of Iran's meddling far beyond its borders and they're still sending those hand-me-down rockets to Hezbollah.

As long as Ahmahdinejad is making speeches and telling people that his purpose is to usher in the Age of the Islamic Mahdi...the world should make sure that a gaping hole exists in Iran's defensive scheme. You never know if someone's gonna have to go get that guy. Holding back air defense's now will reduce costs later.

With regards to Iran wanting these advanced weapons because of what the American's are doing...Iran assisted with the UN/NATO invasion of Afghanistan from what I remember and the invasion of Iraq liberated many people whom the Iranians consider to be family. Iran has been a beneficiary of American actions within the region, but they also want to use those actions as an excuse to justify their own behavior; especially with regards to Israel. No Iranian leader had stepped foot into Iraq before we performed that inema.






[edit on 19-8-2009 by IDK88]

[edit on 19-8-2009 by IDK88]

Originally posted by deltaboy
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

I heard they making an S-500. This is troubling, and I don't mean for American warplanes, but that S-300 and S-400 was never meant to do what was advertised, and performed well as it should.

Wow, that's the stupidest comment I've read in a long time, really disappointing dude

The S-300PMU2 "Favorit" can track 100 targets simultaneously, and engage 36 at the same time. It can carry missiles that intercept up to 120km. I'll be honest and say that the Patriot is probably a good counterpart to this system.

Also just to be fair, here is a Russian government comment "On July 11, 2009, RIA Novosti reported that the F-35 stealth fighter "would effectively eliminate the threat from Russian-made S-300 air defence systems"."

Known facts of the currently deployed S-400 Triumf is that it can detect and intercept targets at 400km. It is also specifically designed to track low-RCS targets like any known stealth aircraft in the US arsenal.

And just because you think S-500 is a joke, I'll mention what it is being designed for: destroying precious American AWACS and jammer craft. It is supposed to be operational by 2012, but my bet is it's in testing because there is already a known S-1000 system in the works (S-500 was first mentioned when S-400 was proven).

Israel was forced to bomb Beirut because of Iran's meddling far beyond its borders and they're still sending those hand-me-down rockets to Hezbollah.

Yeah, Israel was sure forced to bomb Beirut's infrastructure. The runways at its airport sure posed a great threat when Israel destroyed them in the first day of airstrikes, eh? Those people wanted to leave the country and the fighting, but Israel just couldn't allow that.

I wonder how Israel would like it if their innocent people were caged in by massive walls and bombed/assaulted all the time like in Palestine... oh wait, that actually happened around 55 years ago. Do ignorant cultures never learn from violence? It seems like they think that just because it happened to them that they can go around and do it to others, and its sad that the US supports it.

[edit on 19-8-2009 by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi]

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


No, ignorant cultures do not learn. Before all this that is going on settles down you will be forced to confront a terrible truth about Iran.

While they do know the dance and have managed to convince the world they are peaceful and trying to stand up for the rigths of the oppressed, soon enough, for their own survival, they will lash out violently at the world. That's what the nukes are for. The Islamic Republic of Iran is a passive aggressive fraud state that may be preparing to go out in a blaze of glory.

Managing their defensive capabilities and keeping them nuke free is to minimize the fallout of the inevitable event of its destruction from internal pressures. From a certain point of view its not about keeping the Islamic Republic nuke free, but whatever political reality emerges after it is gone.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Its a joke, it be like me saying the F-15 doesn't performed as well as it should hence why the F-22 was designed and built.

Originally posted by deltaboy
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

Its a joke, it be like me saying the F-15 doesn't performed as well as it should hence why the F-22 was designed and built.

Damn, sorry my mistake for misinterpreting. I guess I am just hungry for debate

No, ignorant cultures do not learn. Before all this that is going on settles down you will be forced to confront a terrible truth about Iran.

There is only one truth about the world, and that is the world is gray, not black and white. There is no such thing as a wrong culture or right culture, and there is no such thing as reality since every single individual person interprets to environment around them differently.

It is wrong for the US to interfere with the culture and development of a free nation; they do not care so much about Iran's nuclear autonomy as much as they care about Iran becoming an example of a truly independent culture. Other developing states will follow Iran's example, leaving the sphere of American influence to pursue their own interest and freedom.

Remember, Iran was once a puppet state of the US. The US supplied both Iraq and Iran with weapons with the hopes that they would destroy each other in the 80's. Then Iran broke free and the US invaded the two countries that surround it and set up bases in both. Notice that the US never supplied North Korea with weapons, yet the US does not seem to concerned about the NK when they have the fourth largest military in the world armed and ready to fight off any slight provocation, even threatening with nuclear weapons.

I still do not see a realistic reason to continue to be so concerned about Iran - especially for Americans who live half the world away. Whatever radical idealogy the leadership of Iran appears to be professing, the reality is that its government is more or less just as pragmatic as other large countries. Iran is no more likely to start a war, wage a proxy war, or launch a preemptive nuclear strike than US, Russia, China, or India.

The likely reason why Russia might bow out of the missile deal with Iran, is because they got a better contract with Israel - not for some idealogical or moral purpose. A less likely but plausible reason is that Russia is cautious of the destabilizing effect such an arms deal would have on the region.

Originally posted by IDK88
Iran is constantly involving itself in matters that do not concern it.

Much like all other large countries. Matters which you might perceive to be of no concern to Iran, may be seen otherwise by Iranians. Iran is a large and somewhat influential country, and it might consider some parts of the Middle East to be its sphere of influence.

I am not saying that I agree with Iran's leadership or support it in any way, but that is how things are. Even "evil" countries deserve the same level of sovereignty.

Originally posted by IDK88
As long as Ahmahdinejad is making speeches and telling people that his purpose is to usher in the Age of the Islamic Mahdi...the world should make sure that a gaping hole exists in Iran's defensive scheme.

Not so long ago American leadership also made speeches, which although less dramatic, were still perceived by many people around the world to be aggressive. As for Iran - it can talk and shout about Islamism all it wants - but it isn't going to get anywhere. Pretty much all of Middle East is already spoken for by some interest or other. Ignore the barking dog, and it will tire itself out eventually.

Originally posted by IDK88
You never know if someone's gonna have to go get that guy. Holding back air defense's now will reduce costs later.

There is a much better chance to topple that regime from the inside than outside. Recent protests in Iran showed that not everything is smooth and perfect in paradise. I think most Iranians who want Ahmahdinejad and the Ayatolahs out, want it accomplished through a popular uprising rather than interference by an external force.

Originally posted by IDK88
With regards to Iran wanting these advanced weapons because of what the American's are doing...Iran assisted with the UN/NATO invasion of Afghanistan from what I remember and the invasion of Iraq liberated many people whom the Iranians consider to be family.

Clearly the US toned down its aggressive rhetoric in the Middle East somewhat for now. That doesn't mean however that US will not be a legitimate theat to Iran 5, or 10 years down the road. And Israel's keeps beating on its war drums periodically, and lately has become a wild card itself. Iran has a right to any form of self defense. US and NATO can impose voluntary sanctions, and that's about it. My guess is that if the deal with Russia doesn't go through, Iran will look elsewhere for weapons, probably China.

From the OP article:

Analysts said that Moscow could be using the S-300 contract as a bargaining chip in its relations with the U.S. and Israel.

This is what bothers me. Whilst it'd be good for the prospects of peace for the US to have to back off from siting missile defence stations in Eastern Europe, it'd also be very good to have Iran an even more expensive to tackle target. I feel pretty confident that US-China relations will prevent further US conquest in the Middle East, particularly against Iran (China's biggest oil supplier), but Israel I dont trust, especially with continued US backing.
Cant say I trust Iran either, but with so much hatred in the air, I cant see a better solution than defence parity between them & Israel, unless it were that Israel were forced by UN resolution to give up its WMDs & comply with outstanding resolutions to get back behind its previous borders. Never going to happen...
What worries me most is what will happen in future years, when Middle Eastern oil becomes scarce enough that its no longer cost effective, when the USA no longer needs Israel as a permemant unsinkable 'aircraft carrier'? Without US support, I could well see them using nukes as a 1st strike against Iran & Syria... unless those countries have credible air defence.
On balance, I hope the Russians do sell Iran the S-300 & soon: it could protect against any chance of a PNAC inspired black ops type scenario where 'rogue' US elements persuade Israel to start a war.
China is not about to allow Iran to go the way of Iraq & I dont fancy WW3 - it'd really mess up my plans...

Does anybody truly believe that if Iran receives operational S-300 systems that it will somehow become impenetrable to attack? The S-300 is a very formidable system, but it is in no way a miracle defense that would deter a country like US from attacking Iran, if it was determined to do so.

Russia's primary goals for the long-range S-300/400 system was not for it to be a stand-alone air-defense solution, but to be used in combination with other mid and short range SAM systems. This creates several layers of defense, not only for primary targets but for the SAMs themselves, and provides defense from every conceivable threat. In addition to this, detection and communication infrastructure besides the S-300 battery, plays a major role in creating a true umbrella over the country's airspace, and not just isolated pockets of defense.

I am certain the US has a strategy to take out S-300 batteries in an event of an attack on Iran. Whether it is multiple cruise missiles, cover ops, or jamming/interference, the US can get around the S-300. Sure achieving air superiority will take longer, but the threat to Iran would not be reduced by much.

reply to post by maloy


Not to be concern about Iran because we are half way around the world? I be agreeing with you had something like 9/11 not happened. These days it feels like the world is getting smaller as technology advances that allows countries to hit each other long range. Having two oceans as a natural barrier or shield has become obsolete with the introduction of ships, aviation, ballistic missiles, etc.

My primary concern is not about Iran's military capabilities defensive or offensive, the place would be overrun in hours and would fall within weeks just like everyone else; its their intelligence operations that are of primary concern.

As an outwardly Theocratic State which is run by Clerics and who's existence is based upon strict religious concepts, Iran's intelligence operations are focused on achieving relgious objectives that most people may not understand and are not prepared to deal with.

To some extent the discussion of what types of weapons systems it may or may not be able to purchase from the Russians may be subterfuge, as the Iranian clerics view their own style as comparable to the historical character..."the old man of the mountain" a Nizari Twelver and are probably focusing on precision covert strikes of the type that made the birth of their State possible.

So, I suppose that at worst the SAM system would just encourage Congress to purchase new systems from Lockheed and Northrup that can defeat it.