Peres: Russia to reconsider missile sale to Iran

What do you base this assumption that Iran would be overran in hours? Iraq was not overrun in hours and it had a highly unorganized fighting force in the same condition as when the US left it a decade ago. Iran is a very capable fighting force that is not even comparable to Iraq's shell army, on top of their geological environment which will make American logistics hell compared to a nice flat desert.

The main advantage that the US has on Iran is the fact that it planned the invasion before even 9/11 and it strategically created two false wars to give it a reason to put its forces into two nations on both sides of Iran with the other two sides being water, perfect for an American naval assault. A lot of bloodshed all so the US can take care of any real threats to its future "supremacy" of the world

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


That assumption is based on this: Saddam's Iraq lasted 5 weeks after facing what was a light, blitzkrieg focused American force. After precisoin Air Strikes eliminated key military infrastructure, ground forces moved north straight to Baghdad, which fell less than 3 weeks after the invasion began; despite the hardships characterized in the press Baghdad remained in American control until it was handed over to the new Iraqi government this past July.

I would assume that if the day came where Iran had to be invaded to "save the world" and it was the last enemy that humanity had to face that our warmongering leadership would at least have the decency to send a good old-fashion Mongol style hoard; with American, NATO, UN, Russian, Chinese, Pakistani and Indian forces pouring into Iran through every hole. The first ejaculation of troops would leave us literally spilling over the sides.

The invasion of Iran, if it comes, will by necessity require the most massive army in modern history to focus itself on one place because the Iranians are masters at the crying game and it has to be made clear to them that this is not a game to by played and only a force like the one I envisioned can send that message.

Because the Iranians' are arrogant, the Invasion would be consummated, their defenses would be shattered within minutes and their country overrun from rooter to tooter within hours. It will take more time to produce the Hollywood film that is sure to emerge as a result.

We don't just have forces on their east and west, but also on their northeast and northwest. We have naval battle groups in their gulf. Nevertheless, they just keep up with the idea that they don't already have everything a person could want in life and they keep screwing around with people. As it is right now, Iran is an island of insanity in a new world.

Eventually, I think it'll come out that it was Iran behind the Xinjiang riots in western China. It was Iran behind the various explosions of Pipelines and PowerPlants, Hijacked Ships and blown-up Dams in Russia and Central Asia. It was Iran behind the Muslim outbreak in Nigeria. It was Iran that was supporting militants in Somalia and the LTTE in Sri Lanka. It was an Iranian stooge that declared an Islamic Emirate in Gaza. When it is revealed, the Iranian Mullahs will flee so fast; that you will realize then that Iran has already collapsed.







[edit on 20-8-2009 by IDK88]

[edit on 20-8-2009 by IDK88]

[edit on 20-8-2009 by IDK88]

Being that this was a good brainstorming thread for me. I suspect now that the Israeli showed the Russian evidence connecting the Iranians to some of the several Russian accidents that have occured over the last few months.

That evidence was convincing enough for the Russians to re-consider its defense relationship with the Iranian regime.

Dude, you have one seriously misguided problem against Iran. I think you need some detox from all the American propaganda that's been injected into you.

As of now the US is a coalition of one. The only reason why any nation supported the US in its obviously bogus "war on terror" was to be on the good side of the now desperate and warmongering American government. Now it has become known but unspoken to almost everyone that the US is on a warpath that will lead to its own demise. You must be truly delusional if you think that the UN will help the US, let alone Russia or China. If NATO gets dragged in then expect some of its members to either drop out or form a renegade organization to stop the US from its obsession of world policing.

You know what? You would have to be an idiot if you think the US can stop terrorism. Terrorism is BORN out of war, the very war that the US government created. The "war on terrorism" is actually an insane American war of aggression that was designed to create even more enemies of the US to give the US a reason to push its armies all over the world to instill its power. How can you honestly not see this?

Iran is one of the few powers with the balls to stand up to such oppressive action and assimilation, and you really show no experience understanding Iran's defense if you keep talking about Iraq because they are not even comparable. You can believe whatever you want, but I'll let you in on some information about the Iraq war.

-You may not remember, but the before the war even started the US ignorantly commanded Iraq to destroy most of its real weapon systems or face invasion. Iraq, knowing they were going to lose anyway, complied and dismantled their effective weapons like Scud SSMs.
-Iraq did not seriously re-equip or rebuild its army since it was destroyed in the Gulf War. They were using incredibly inferior ragtag versions of the Russian T-72 for their MBT force which were built from pieces of T-72s sold to Iraq from Russia. They decided to bury or abandon their airforce which lead to no Iraqi airplanes even hitting the sky.
-When the US invaded, they attacked from the air during the day to avoid ground casualties. At night is when their ground forces did the majority of their fighting and they were effective, you know why? Because the US army is entirely equipped with night vision equipment and the Iraqis were most definitely not. This is why the Abrams had such an effective kill ratio against those "T-72s".
-Saddam was not an effective leader during the invasion because he knew that his army didn't stand a chance, so he hid during most of the war. His ground army either disserted or were destroyed just like in the Gulf War. The Republican Guard also knew they couldn't win a conventional war, so they divided up into splinter groups and they're the ones who formed the militias to fight the US post-invasion.

Iran has a large and modern military who will not run away from the Americans. Not only do they have effective ground army, but they also have a navy and an airforce that reportedly has their own stealth craft. They're special forces are also very effective. Plus Iran has many friends around the world who will be very displeased with Americans on their soil. US invading Iran may end up with Iran's infrastructure, military and civilians in shambles, but it will also be a major turning point in the end of the already failing American empire.

Being that this was a good brainstorming thread for me. I suspect now that the Israeli showed the Russian evidence connecting the Iranians to some of the several Russian accidents that have occured over the last few months.

That evidence was convincing enough for the Russians to re-consider its defense relationship with the Iranian regime.

Yeah, because the Iranian government is really going to attack its best friend, trading partner and military ally. Maybe it was Iranian rebels paid, trained and supplied by the CIA that conducted these things against Russia, or maybe we can all get real and realize that it was probably rebels within Russia that did it considering they did it all the times before

[edit on 20-8-2009 by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi]

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

... And just because you think S-500 is a joke, I'll mention what it is being designed for: destroying precious American AWACS and jammer craft ...

[edit on 19-8-2009 by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi]

You have to get to an AWACS to kill an AWACS. At a 40Kft station altitude, the radar range equation yields a 330+ mile range against a 5000 foot aircraft. 380nm for a 10Kft aircraft.

As for jammer aircraft... what sort are you referring to? The EA-6B? You have to see it to hit it, and the capabilities of this critter would make you cringe. It's probably the lowest performance aircraft in the "jammer" category. You also have the EF-111, better performance... but it's retired. Gee. I wonder why. The big push as of late is the incorporate any needed jamming equipment on a pod fitted fighter.

So... can they be hit? Sure. But you still have to see them first.

To get an idea of the state of state of the art... find an issue of the Journal of Electronic Defense. (its a trade magazine)

reply to post by IDK88

That assumption is based on this: Saddam's Iraq lasted 5 weeks after facing what was a light, blitzkrieg focused American force

nearly 1 million allied troops , 3500 tanks , 2000 aircraft - is nothing like a light force - thats MORE than the forces in germany in the cold war!

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Iran has a large and modern military who will not run away from the Americans. Not only do they have effective ground army, but they also have a navy and an airforce that reportedly has their own stealth craft. They're special forces are also very effective. Plus Iran has many friends around the world who will be very displeased with Americans on their soil. US invading Iran may end up with Iran's infrastructure, military and civilians in shambles, but it will also be a major turning point in the end of the already failing American empire.

[edit on 20-8-2009 by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi]

Yeah, but Iran would find that an actual war is much different than what they read in the books to learn about fighting wars or what was learned from their computer simulations. Since Iran doesn't have any practical experience fighting a military based war in over 20 years (just suicide bombers and rocket attacks), I am not sure how much that fancy new hardware they have is going to help them; I suppose they'd look good going into captivity.

Iran's strength is not military...its covert intelligence operations. They are sneaky little finks that require a sneak attack with two against one to have a chance at success. Their agents that work American streets are usually drug addicts, whores and uneducated gang bangers. When they have to come face to face with a Man they stop dead in their tracks and hold their tongues. All that stuff you are talking about is nothing more than attempt but to make a despicable outfit feel good about themselves. Don't feel bad...it's just what they are and what they've always been. Literally, haven't changed a bit in 6000 years.

No shooting war with Iran will ever take place. Soon, it will be well accepted that Al Qaeda is Iran's Dog and is responsible for the general environment of chaos in the world, you and everyone else will understand what the phrase..."Iran exports Terror"...means. When you all realize that the Shah of Iran "fleeing" the revolution and coming to America in 1979 was just a ploy so he could directly administer to and restructure what he thought at the time was his newly captured possession and complete his global domination scheme, you'll stop giving his son a podium to speak from.

When you realize that among Iran's many, many enemies in this world the first among them all is Time and it's bearing down upon them and their plans relentlessly. No war will even be necessary to get rid of it.

[edit on 20-8-2009 by IDK88]

[edit on 20-8-2009 by IDK88]

reply to post by Harlequin


I think you were looking at the Normandy invasion. If you look at the Invasion of Iraq the most I counted was half a million; including the allied nations. But, I don't really count them as being necessary to completing the task of taking Iraq from Hussein.

Sale has gone through, not sure what posts are being posted here, but im sure as the others have been confirmed... sales are done ...enjoy what ever conspiracy you choose.

reply to post by tristar


And right on cue...someone comes to try and close the thread. bravo, bravo.

Originally posted by IDK88
reply to post by tristar

 

And right on cue...someone comes to try and close the thread. bravo, bravo.

Do not mean to close any thread,

Only stating what is at hand. Then again when was that Russian ship boarded and when was it reported, by the way, was that causality ever reported....i guess not..right ?

Originally posted by IDK88
Yeah, but Iran would find that an actual war is much different than what they read in the books to learn about fighting wars or what was learned from their computer simulations. Since Iran doesn't have any practical experience fighting a military based war in over 20 years (just suicide bombers and rocket attacks), I am not sure how much that fancy new hardware they have is going to help them; I suppose they'd look good going into captivity.

That doesn't make any sense what so ever. They extensively train and conduct war games all the time to test their equipment, and the equipment they buy from Russia and China comes with instructors to teach how to use them. Why the hell would they stock their military with weapons that are not effective?

Iran's strength is not military...its covert intelligence operations. They are sneaky little finks that require a sneak attack with two against one to have a chance at success. Their agents that work American streets are usually drug addicts, whores and uneducated gang bangers. When they have to come face to face with a Man they stop dead in their tracks and hold their tongues. All that stuff you are talking about is nothing more than attempt but to make a despicable outfit feel good about themselves. Don't feel bad...it's just what they are and what they've always been. Literally, haven't changed a bit in 6000 years.

Dude, I've read a lot of what you write and this just takes the cake. I think you're just talking a lot of crap that you don't even know about and have little experience with, all for the sake of discrediting Iran. Iranian agents are crackheads and hookers on American streets? Get real.

Real intelligence operatives are the most dedicated soldiers you will ever find. They have no limits and they will die for their country. They will not get addicted to drugs and hook on the street. Maybe you should spend some time on the street and you can understand the reality of how people become crackheads and hookers, because I know I've seen it and there's no way that a dedicated intelligence operative will ever get sucked into that BS.

No shooting war with Iran will ever take place. Soon, it will be well accepted that Al Qaeda is Iran's Dog and is responsible for the general environment of chaos in the world, you and everyone else will understand what the phrase..."Iran exports Terror"...means. When you all realize that the Shah of Iran "fleeing" the revolution and coming to America in 1979 was just a ploy so he could directly administer to and restructure what he thought at the time was his newly captured possession and complete his global domination scheme, you'll stop giving his son a podium to speak from.

I don't give a crap about your conspiracy theories, I am able to see Iran for what it is in these modern times just fine on my own. It is a prosperous nation trying to become a national power so it can be a secure country, but outside forces like the US keep harassing it with rhetoric and supporting internal terrorism.

Bush said it best "if you are not with us, you are against us".

When you realize that among Iran's many, many enemies in this world the first among them all is Time and it's bearing down upon them and their plans relentlessly. No war will even be necessary to get rid of it.

US. Israel. That's about how many enemies I see of Iran. I could type out Iran's friends but I don't want to insult you

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Please...just assume that I've been on these streets since the end of Vietnam. I know exactly what the Iranians people are all about. The Banu Sassan...Kali Worshippers AKA Thugs.

I assure you that gaming and simulation are not preparation for the live environment...the best laid schemes of mice and men...remember that? Iran's, and yours I suppose, enemy is not men anymore...it is Time. Wait and see.

I've heard the music, know all the angles...already have been to the Pit and the Thunderdome. I know all I need to know about Iranians and this little game they are playing and about to lose. But like someone already said they'll get their missile defense system and all their fancy new toys...for a war that is not coming in the manner in which they have spent so much to respond to. When they are sitting on the mountain of ruin, those weapons will serve the purpose of mocking them.

For someone who speaks in code, it still smells of bias against Iran. You are right, time is the only factor that can always be determined to occur. A war with Iran is not going to start by Iran though.

Wow IDK88, credit where its due, that was some top quality unsupported ranting!
More, or did you blow a gasket?

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


It's bias that wouldn't exist if not for what I've seen and experienced with my own eyes. I held my judgement for years against Iran. I remember in 2006 suggesting to someone Iran is on some major BS and he replied that Iran is a holy and good nation. I figured I am obviously dealing with some kind of brainwashed automaton so I just let the conversation evolve into something else; I remember him having a strange desire to paint the White House black.

I saw one of Iran's "Nuclear" weapons, but it seemed to be more of a sub-atomic weapons system; some obnoxious wanna be tough guy who a swore it would take God himself to change his behavior...ultimately it only took local security. So, I know Iran is lying...everytime they speak...a lie is born into the world.

This isn't at all againt Iranians but against their President and his Supreme Council and the Shah and perhaps the Revolutionary Guard and their dog Al Qaeda. They're so offensive because it is them who have plunged the world into chaos, they pretend its not them and actually blame it on others. Do you realize how irritating something like that is? When you KNOW, but cannot prove, what they are doing?

Do you know what among the very first things Xerxes/Darius did upon ascending to power?...Changing the rules of Evidence within their legal systems...Do you know why?

reply to post by Bunken Drum


I could go on and on...I usually need to be set off by something. Support for Iran in some specific way helps. Extoll the virtues of the Revolutionary Guard or Persian contributions to world history and you'll get an eyeful.

reply to post by IDK88


Which country has Iran destabilized? Afghanistan and Iraq has been completely destabilized by America, I'm surprised Iran is not interfering. Amazingly people like you still exist and your comments never seem to amaze me.

reply to post by oozyism


Which ones is Iran not a destabilizing influence? That is the much better question. I heard that during parties...other Muslim leaders try and avoid Ahmadinejad, but he's like this type of person that just doesn't get a hint and sticks around and keeps talking and talking about the Mahdi.

He talks about how the Mahdi will usher in a global regime where Sharia will be the law and religious men will administer justice. He goes on and on, but the key part to understanding his Mahdi is that all other Nations must fall to become a part of his vision.

So Iran is operating in every state on the planet. In every household even. If you argued with a sibling...that's Iran's influence. A drive by shooting...that's Iran. If your wife has a headache and not in the mood for some lovin...that is Iran too.

Its all Iran...the fact that you cannot understand the truth of these words...is because you've been blinded by Iran. You are under a spell that makes my words irritating.

War was coming upon the world whether America responded or not. What you see occuring in the world today is actually a more controlled demolition than what Iran had planned. Iran is trying to spin the world into total chaos and war.

They're trying to ignite a Total World War, with full mobilization of military forces. Not 200,000 troops, but 200,000,000 of troops in a theater. I swear some people are really missing the big picture. It's all being contained nicely if you ask me.

[edit on 22-8-2009 by IDK88]

Originally posted by IDK88
reply to post by oozyism

 

Which ones is Iran not a destabilizing influence? That is the much better question. I heard that during parties...other Muslim leaders try and avoid Ahmadinejad, but he's like this type of person that just doesn't get a hint and sticks around and keeps talking and talking about the Mahdi.

He talks about how the Mahdi will usher in a global regime where Sharia will be the law and religious men will administer justice. He goes on and on, but the key part to understanding his Mahdi is that all other Nations must fall to become a part of his vision.

So Iran is operating in every state on the planet. In every household even. If you argued with a sibling...that's Iran's influence. A drive by shooting...that's Iran. If your wife has a headache and not in the mood for some lovin...that is Iran too.

Its all Iran...the fact that you cannot understand the truth of these words...is because you've been blinded by Iran. You are under a spell that makes my words irritating.

No your words are not irritating, not at all, I find them amusing like I find my cat. I always think about my cat's thoughts, and if my cat could speak he would probably be smarter than you.

OK! I asked you which country did Iran destabilize? The answer you gave me was regarding Ahmadinejad. I didn't ask about Ahmadinejad’s beliefs, so think about it. If I asked my cat which countries America destabilized, Afghanistan and Iraq, my cat would reply. But if I asked you which country did America destabilize, you would probably talk about Bush's belief regarding anti-Christ and his arriving therefore America has destabilized every nation in the world and every drive by shooting (does that even make sense?).

Go to sleep and have a deep think regarding your proclamation.