Army Rooting out Problem NCOs, page 1
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Topic started on 18-8-2009 @ 10:13 AM by KSPigpen
HEIDELBERG, Germany — The Army is reviewing personnel records of nearly 19,000 noncommissioned officers as it seeks to purge the senior enlisted ranks of underperforming, or even criminal, leaders.


Link to Source


The records are being checked for courts-martial, negative evaluations, failed leadership courses, removals for cause, reprimands and other disciplinary actions incurred since these sergeants made their current ranks. Among the reasons for records of reprimands and disciplinary actions are driving under the influence, sexual harassment charges, drug abuse and alcohol problems.

If such sergeants do not voluntarily retire, they will, for the most part, be discharged within six months.

“We’re trying to target those NCOs who don’t understand by looking in the mirror that they are not what the Army needs,” said Gerald Purcell, a Pentagon personnel expert and retired sergeant major who helped devise and carry out the program. “The time to learn and grow from your mistakes has kind of passed.”

After nearly seven years of suspension, what the Army calls the “Qualitative Management Program” is back, providing a means, the Army says, of ridding the service of marginal leaders. The QMP review applies to all retirement-eligible master sergeants, sergeants major and sergeants first class with 20 to 30 years of service in the regular Army, as well as the active Reserves and National Guard.

Some 19,000 senior noncommissioned officers – 3,000 sergeants major, 9,000 master sergeants and 7,000 sergeants first class – fall within the group to be scrutinized, Purcell said.

It’s unknown how many senior NCOs will see their records flagged and be forced to retire, but Purcell said that if he had to guess, he’d say upwards of 2 percent.


What a breath of fresh air. I only wish that the same sort of program could apply to congress, the senate and every other government agency in the world. It sounds to me like, if you are an NCO in the Army and you screwed up before, you're going to need to find another job.

I thought it interesting that they had suspended this practice to focus on fighting wars....it seems to me like wartime would be when you needed the good leaders the most. I guess I just don't understand the intricacies.


reply posted on 18-8-2009 @ 10:25 AM by getreadyalready
reply to post by Unit541



Ya, sounds like a good way to get rid of independent thinkers, and "Oathkeepers."

Surely there is already a system in place to cull the ranks when disciplinary action has been required? Why the extra review in bulk?

My opinion, a strict adherence to order following was less important on foreign soil, but on US soil it will require blind discipline to force military action against your own people! They don't want their own weapons turned on them!

I wonder if any other branches of military are doing a similar review? That would make things even more suspicious!



reply posted on 18-8-2009 @ 11:00 AM by Hazelnut
reply to post by KSPigpen



What? So, they root them out and replace them with whom exactly??? Civilians are rushing to enlist all of the sudden? I must have missed something.


reply posted on 18-8-2009 @ 11:10 AM by getreadyalready
reply to post by Hazelnut



Actually, recruiting is at all-time highs! Civilians are rushing to join the ranks and all branches of service are meeting their quotas with highly qualified individuals, and having to turn away many recruits!

The local recruiters in my area for Coast Guard, Navy, and Air Force say their jobs are the easist they have ever been, and the hardest part of their job is telling people they don't qualify!

As for the OP, they are probably replacing these NCOs with tried and true "company men" and then filling the lower ranks with new recruits.


reply posted on 18-8-2009 @ 11:15 AM by Hazelnut
reply to post by getreadyalready



I didn't know that. I'll guess that with the economy's current problems, government jobs are easier to come by these days?


reply posted on 18-8-2009 @ 11:23 AM by jd140
Originally posted by KSPigpen
You guys have put into words what I was unable. That is exactly what I was thinking.
They do have ways to get rid of troublemakers....one of the other things I thought odd, was that they are all going to get HONORABLE discharges...why would you give a screwup an honorable discharge? To keep them quiet? To make fewer waves? If they suck, they should be out on their ears, right? If I suck at my job, I'll get fired, and not have any retirement. They get to keep their retirements. Good for them, but it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.


They are getting an honorable discharge because they are being forced to retire, they aren't being kicked out.

Why not get kicked out you might ask. Because if it is in their files then they were already punished. Maybe at one time they lost money or had extra duty. Who knows, but they were punished for an offense once, cant punish for the same thing twice.

Master sergeants, sergeants major and sergeants first class are all ranks that if you have a few blemishes on your record then you will not be able to advance. Acquiring anything from a SFC to SGM requires you to have a packet reveiwed by a board and only a select few are chosen.

So if you have one of these ranks and you get a dui, then your career is pretty much done as you won't be able to advance, forced retirement opens a slot for another who is able to achieve higher goals.



reply posted on 18-8-2009 @ 11:43 AM by visible_villain
reply to post by KSPigpen


The Great Purge

Great Purge was a series of campaigns of political repression and persecution in the Soviet Union orchestrated by Joseph Stalin in 1936–1938. It involved a large-scale purge of the Communist Party and Government officials, repression of peasants, Red Army leadership, and the persecution of unaffiliated persons, characterized by widespread police surveillance, widespread suspicion of "saboteurs", imprisonment, and executions. According to the archive data, in 1937–38 the number of death sentences was 681,692 and many more died in GULAG labor camps.

Source : Wikipedia

Reminds me of the old saying -

Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it ...



reply posted on 18-8-2009 @ 04:36 PM by redfaction
reply to post by KSPigpen



i agree with this. but lets be honest people it will never happen. the army says we met enlistment quota, but we havent. im getting ready to deploy with an incomplete squad. im down one fire team leader and two team members. we dont have the assests to release senior ncos from the ranks. even though the are straight garbage they still have that experience that can be used to train others. i just want to know why im on my fourth and theres dudes who have made e7 that dont even have one. to me thats the true problem that we have in the army. but then again life isnt fair, why should i expect the military to be any different.
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