It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Army Rooting out Problem NCOs

page: 1
6

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 10:13 AM
link   

HEIDELBERG, Germany — The Army is reviewing personnel records of nearly 19,000 noncommissioned officers as it seeks to purge the senior enlisted ranks of underperforming, or even criminal, leaders.


Link to Source



The records are being checked for courts-martial, negative evaluations, failed leadership courses, removals for cause, reprimands and other disciplinary actions incurred since these sergeants made their current ranks. Among the reasons for records of reprimands and disciplinary actions are driving under the influence, sexual harassment charges, drug abuse and alcohol problems.

If such sergeants do not voluntarily retire, they will, for the most part, be discharged within six months.

“We’re trying to target those NCOs who don’t understand by looking in the mirror that they are not what the Army needs,” said Gerald Purcell, a Pentagon personnel expert and retired sergeant major who helped devise and carry out the program. “The time to learn and grow from your mistakes has kind of passed.”

After nearly seven years of suspension, what the Army calls the “Qualitative Management Program” is back, providing a means, the Army says, of ridding the service of marginal leaders. The QMP review applies to all retirement-eligible master sergeants, sergeants major and sergeants first class with 20 to 30 years of service in the regular Army, as well as the active Reserves and National Guard.

Some 19,000 senior noncommissioned officers – 3,000 sergeants major, 9,000 master sergeants and 7,000 sergeants first class – fall within the group to be scrutinized, Purcell said.

It’s unknown how many senior NCOs will see their records flagged and be forced to retire, but Purcell said that if he had to guess, he’d say upwards of 2 percent.


What a breath of fresh air. I only wish that the same sort of program could apply to congress, the senate and every other government agency in the world. It sounds to me like, if you are an NCO in the Army and you screwed up before, you're going to need to find another job.

I thought it interesting that they had suspended this practice to focus on fighting wars....it seems to me like wartime would be when you needed the good leaders the most. I guess I just don't understand the intricacies.




posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 10:20 AM
link   
I agree that some "culling of the herd" is required, especially in the Army. Too many of these guys are little more than gang-bangers with uniforms. However, the inner CT in me says there's a flip side. How do we know they're going after the "problem-children" exclusively? How do we know they're not simply trying to weed out those who may question authority? Those that may be inclined to think before following questionable orders. Those who hold the constitution as a higher authority than their commanding officer (or commander in chief).

And why only NCO's? What, going to college automatically means you're the perfect little soldier? The old saying "sh*t rolls downhill" comes to mind.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 10:25 AM
link   
reply to post by Unit541
 


Ya, sounds like a good way to get rid of independent thinkers, and "Oathkeepers."

Surely there is already a system in place to cull the ranks when disciplinary action has been required? Why the extra review in bulk?

My opinion, a strict adherence to order following was less important on foreign soil, but on US soil it will require blind discipline to force military action against your own people! They don't want their own weapons turned on them!

I wonder if any other branches of military are doing a similar review? That would make things even more suspicious!



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 10:29 AM
link   
You guys have put into words what I was unable. That is exactly what I was thinking.
They do have ways to get rid of troublemakers....one of the other things I thought odd, was that they are all going to get HONORABLE discharges...why would you give a screwup an honorable discharge? To keep them quiet? To make fewer waves? If they suck, they should be out on their ears, right? If I suck at my job, I'll get fired, and not have any retirement. They get to keep their retirements. Good for them, but it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 11:00 AM
link   
reply to post by KSPigpen
 


What? So, they root them out and replace them with whom exactly??? Civilians are rushing to enlist all of the sudden? I must have missed something.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 11:10 AM
link   
reply to post by Hazelnut
 


Actually, recruiting is at all-time highs! Civilians are rushing to join the ranks and all branches of service are meeting their quotas with highly qualified individuals, and having to turn away many recruits!

The local recruiters in my area for Coast Guard, Navy, and Air Force say their jobs are the easist they have ever been, and the hardest part of their job is telling people they don't qualify!

As for the OP, they are probably replacing these NCOs with tried and true "company men" and then filling the lower ranks with new recruits.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 11:15 AM
link   
reply to post by getreadyalready
 


I didn't know that. I'll guess that with the economy's current problems, government jobs are easier to come by these days?



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 11:23 AM
link   

Originally posted by KSPigpen
You guys have put into words what I was unable. That is exactly what I was thinking.
They do have ways to get rid of troublemakers....one of the other things I thought odd, was that they are all going to get HONORABLE discharges...why would you give a screwup an honorable discharge? To keep them quiet? To make fewer waves? If they suck, they should be out on their ears, right? If I suck at my job, I'll get fired, and not have any retirement. They get to keep their retirements. Good for them, but it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.


They are getting an honorable discharge because they are being forced to retire, they aren't being kicked out.

Why not get kicked out you might ask. Because if it is in their files then they were already punished. Maybe at one time they lost money or had extra duty. Who knows, but they were punished for an offense once, cant punish for the same thing twice.

Master sergeants, sergeants major and sergeants first class are all ranks that if you have a few blemishes on your record then you will not be able to advance. Acquiring anything from a SFC to SGM requires you to have a packet reveiwed by a board and only a select few are chosen.

So if you have one of these ranks and you get a dui, then your career is pretty much done as you won't be able to advance, forced retirement opens a slot for another who is able to achieve higher goals.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 11:25 AM
link   

Originally posted by Unit541
However, the inner CT in me says there's a flip side. How do we know they're going after the "problem-children" exclusively? How do we know they're not simply trying to weed out those who may question authority?


When I read this article I thought the same thing. Are they really targeting those that are questioning their leaderships direction? I've seen lay offs at companies follow this same logic. Often times it is the ones that never provide ground breaking ideas, or challenge their boss that keep their job. The ones that have brought up issues, or raised complaints are the ones let go.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 11:43 AM
link   
reply to post by KSPigpen
 


The Great Purge

Great Purge was a series of campaigns of political repression and persecution in the Soviet Union orchestrated by Joseph Stalin in 1936–1938. It involved a large-scale purge of the Communist Party and Government officials, repression of peasants, Red Army leadership, and the persecution of unaffiliated persons, characterized by widespread police surveillance, widespread suspicion of "saboteurs", imprisonment, and executions. According to the archive data, in 1937–38 the number of death sentences was 681,692 and many more died in GULAG labor camps.

Source : Wikipedia

Reminds me of the old saying -


Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it ...



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 04:36 PM
link   
reply to post by KSPigpen
 


i agree with this. but lets be honest people it will never happen. the army says we met enlistment quota, but we havent. im getting ready to deploy with an incomplete squad. im down one fire team leader and two team members. we dont have the assests to release senior ncos from the ranks. even though the are straight garbage they still have that experience that can be used to train others. i just want to know why im on my fourth and theres dudes who have made e7 that dont even have one. to me thats the true problem that we have in the army. but then again life isnt fair, why should i expect the military to be any different.



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 10:27 AM
link   
I was ordered to attend a USMC conference that had the Secdef as keynote speaker in Quatico VA. I was the "youngest" at the time being a Cpl.
Title of the Conference " NCO The Backbone of the Marine Corps"

In my 8 years of service I had one and only one disloyal f***k master sgt.
on behalf of his / my OIC warrent officer he wanted me to ship the 0's personal effects in my "classified equipment" containers.

FYI. The equipment was Electronic Warfare radar receiver/transmitters. I was a liason from the shop to recieve, inspect and ship the equipment to our shop via courier.

I, being totaly inept in politics, told the msgt " cant do it". He points to his rockers and says these say you WILL do it!
Smart ass as I am , doh, Pull the 4" thick binder of Naval Regulations from the shelf and let it fall on the desk and say to him "these say I won't do it"

I got a hit on my fitness report in loyalty. Cost me a year extra as sgt before promoted to ssgt.
So yea there are some dorks. But I cant believe that many



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 04:11 PM
link   
You learn from the good and the bad. I know some officers and NCOs that had article 15s, reprimands, etc. Will I go into combat with them, yes, anytime. They were were some that had a clean perfect record, that no one wanted to go to combat with. Senior NCOs and Officers know who they can count on even if their soldiers' record isn't clean.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 11:23 AM
link   
When I was in the Army - just after Vietnam - conventional wisdom was: If you didn't have any Article 15s you didn't have any spirit.

Strange tale: Biggest house on Fort Devens was at the golf course. Groundskeeper stayed there. He was an E1, busted down from an E8. When he retired he would get his E8 pay.

How do you screw up that bad and not get thrown out or sent to Ft. Leavenworth?

has to be a story there, and a very lumpy rug nearby.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 12:30 PM
link   
Its funny you should mention Stalin's purge. Obama bears a striking resemblance to Nikolai Ezkov, Stalin's chief executioner. Eerie. I would post a link but I'm surfing from my Blackberry. Google it. I think the website is www.totallylookslike.com.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 12:56 PM
link   

Originally posted by ExPostFacto

Originally posted by Unit541
However, the inner CT in me says there's a flip side. How do we know they're going after the "problem-children" exclusively? How do we know they're not simply trying to weed out those who may question authority?


When I read this article I thought the same thing. Are they really targeting those that are questioning their leaderships direction? I've seen lay offs at companies follow this same logic. Often times it is the ones that never provide ground breaking ideas, or challenge their boss that keep their job. The ones that have brought up issues, or raised complaints are the ones let go.


i'm surprised that so many of you have already figured out it is not the NCOs fault. i've seem so many people in power start off great and then become real *ssh*les, even detrimental to morale and untrustworthy to the men underneath them. there is bad leadership all thru the services, that from time to time should be eliminated. this is not to say that there could NOT be other reasons...i'm not so naive. but i'm sure there is probably some NCOs that need to be let go.



new topics

top topics



 
6

log in

join