UFO's since 1870

Originally posted by jkrog08
reply to post by TeslaandLyne

 

I have been dying to ask you this Tesla..........So do you beleive any aliens are piloting these UFOs or do you think they are all top secret Tesla craft? Just curious....

Human plots.
All top secret Tesla craft.

The technology was known to many in Tesla's time but Tesla was
documenting and working to make his own craft and did.
Perhaps he wanted all the glory.
Perhaps no one was even close as Bill Lyne suggests.
Bill didn't like the trend to German origin as he had always thought
Tesla was behind the technology and he researched it well.
He has to be one of the best or lead Tesla researcher.

I subscribe to the Bill Lyne theories.
Its a long hard tale to even see how the modern clandestine use
of this technology has evolved but he has a strong case.
Once there and you tackle the ether theories, thats another job
which took quite a lot of review and even suggesting technology that
didn't quite make it but its all in his books and his texting in yahoo
groups helped understand what he already had in print.

There is Lyne's great understanding of Tesla, the history recovery
surrounding Tesla and finally how the saucer works and from there
the photos are interesting to interpret.

Thats the whole ball of wax.

Bill has no ET interaction at all and says the ET is a fortunate paid for security screen of media control by the Trilateralists or those in
control of the technology that goes beyond the UFO and common understanding of what science can and cant do.

reply to post by TeslaandLyne


Cool, thanks man! I was just wondering about your opinion on that. So you think all these pictures are legit then?

Originally posted by jkrog08
reply to post by TeslaandLyne

 

Cool, thanks man! I was just wondering about your opinion on that. So you think all these pictures are legit then?

Can't say for sure, right.
Guess I'm just happy with an interpretation that might get Illuminati
worried. I think the technology works and apparently we do have these flying
around. I'll be checking out a book "High Frequency Apparatus" and see how
it compares with the Tesla experiments of 1891.
Perhaps I'll learn more and make a youtube levalator video.



ED: It was interesting that people can walk on these saucers.
I had just been looking through that book.
ED+: If you were President, how would you handle the UFO problem.
I probably wouldn't do scratch and just bemuse myself on the hosing
of the masses and help the ET myth for big Illuminati bucks.
Too many liars so just joint them.

[edit on 8/11/2009 by TeslaandLyne]

[edit on 8/11/2009 by TeslaandLyne]

Originally posted by jkrog08
reply to post by summerdreary

 

Your image code is not working, so here you go:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/33a81fbae65d.jpg[/atsimg]

1870-Mt. Washington, New Hampshire. This photo is dubbed, "the oldest UFO photograph ever taken." This item was the subject of bidding at Ebay in 2002, when finally the photo was purchased for $385.00 by Samuel M. Sherman, who was the president of Independent-International Pictures Corp. This was originally a "stereo" photograph. Certainly it was difficult to manipulate photos at that time, and remember, there were no flying objects then; at least, not from this world.

G'day jkrog08

It appears that 1st image has been shown to be a piece of timber. Here is some info from the thread in question as posted by atc_eh (the image links would not copy over):

www.abovetopsecret.com...

THIS IS NOT AN IMAGE OF A UFO
I stumbled across this image and could not let the assertion that this is a UFO go unchallenged. I am probably uniquely qualified to debunk this as an expert on both Mt. Washington and stereoviews of the White Mountain region of New Hampshire. I'm also a climber who has summited Mt Washington many times in all seasons including winter.

BACKGROUND
1. The image is a heavily-cropped portion of a genuine stereoview taken during the winter of 1870-1871 by photographers A F. Clough and H.A. Kimball. Cropping has removed key contextual information, which would immediately disprove this as a UFO photo.

2. From Nov 1870 to May 1871, an expedition under the US Army Signal Corps spent the winter on Mt Washington making scientific observations. There was great public interest in this adventure and their exploits were telegraphed daily. Clough and Kimball were two NH photographers attached to the expedition who made many interesting images which were distributed widely.

3. This expedition was documented in a book called "Mount Washington in Winter". It describes their research and the difficult living conditions in one of the world's most extreme environments. No UFOs or paranormal events were documented. Read it yourself here: books.google.com...

4. There were a number of structures on the summit at this time including two hotels, and the train depot where the observers overwintered. No wooden fences as these would blow away

5. Mt Washington is famous for its ferocious weather especially wind which sculpts snow and ice creating strange and beautiful formations which were common subjects of White Mountain stereoviews. Rime ice forms on all vertical surfaces exposed to wind and can appear milky or cloud-like.

6. In wintry conditions, ground, sky, and clouds can all blend together creating a disorienting effect on observers and climbers and it can be difficult or impossible to scale objects properly. This is why viewing a cropped image might lead some people to think they are looking at clouds.

7. I own one of these images and have seen several others. The "mystery" object is present in the original photograph and has not been caused by retouching, camera trickery, or damage.

THE ORIGINAL IMAGE

WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT?
In the foreground are frost formations on Lizzie Bourne's cairn, just below the summit of Washington on a day with high overcast. (A cairn is a purpose-built pile of rocks). This is a very close photo. The "mystery" object is only a few inches long. There is a clear demarcation between ground and sky in the background on what was a rare winter day with moderate visibility. The background below the horizon line is wind-sculpted ice and snow, not clouds.

WHAT IS THE MYSTERY OBJECT?
Using a period stereoscope or magnifying glass and/or having some familiarity with the gear and/or process a scientist would use, it is perfectly clear that the object is a wooden "standard". That's just a fancy name for a ruler, in this case, a folding ruler. Expedition members carried them to make observations like snow depth, rime accumulation, etc. They even complained about losing or breaking them in poor weather. You are looking at a ruler placed on a snow-covered cairn to scale an object in featureless terrain. Yes, it is that boring. No mystery zeppelins here. Sorry believers, it's another hoax.

Here are a few examples of folding rulers from about this period:

CONCLUSION
This is not a UFO. What you have is a not-so-clever crop of a real image by an unscrupulous person perpetuating the UFO myth. The person who cropped it probably thought he was looking at something unique, but this photo is not even especially rare.

reply to post by Sam60


Okay, thanks for that my friend, I never saw that thread, while the craft does obviously show a resemblance to a broke piece of timber in ways, the orientation of it gives the appearance of something much more. Not an expert analysis, but a somewhat convincing debunk none-the-less.

BUT (There is always a but in this field as you know )


Although the following comment from another member on the thread sheds some discrepancies on the members post you shared. Remember he said there were hotels and stuff on the mountain top? LOL, well not in 1870, and definitely not until after the 1930.

ATS member ashamedamerican wrote...

A couple things I can tell you for sure
(because I have been on top of Mt. Washington a few times)

1.When you are on top of Mt. Washington, you are often looking DOWN at the clouds, due to the height of it's summit and the way the mountains east of it cause low lying cloud formations.

2.There are no fences or mailboxes at the TOP of this mountain.
There IS a weather observatory, however until 1932 the human impact at the summit was limited to a single small building, nothing like the weather observatory and visitor station found there today.

From wiki (so that it can be verified)
Mount Washington is the highest peak in the Northeastern United States at 6,288 ft (1,917 m).
It is famous for its dangerously erratic weather, holding the record for the highest wind gust directly measured at the Earth's surface, at 231 mph (372 km/h) on the afternoon of April 12, 1934.

Mount Washington's official record low of −50 °F (−45.6 °C) was recorded on January 22, 1885.
However, there is also hand-written evidence to suggest that an unofficial low of −59 °F (−50.6 °C) occurred on January 5, 1871.

I have been there in the middle of july made a snowball, and put it in my cooler to throw at a family member when I returned home

Hope this helps to shed a little light on what you are looking at here.
Mt. Washington is not your average mountain.
(at least not for this part of the U.S.)

So we can see that the mountain summit is not nearly as populated as the poster you quoted would lead us to believe. Does this rule out a hoax? Absolutely not, but it does give us something to think about, before we can conclusively call this object a log (even though, as I said, it looks similar, but also keep in mind the stereo nature of the photo.).


AND (There is always an and as well my friend )

We must consider corroborating statements, whether peripheral or direct...

ATS member Shar_Chi wrote..

OK I can shed just a little light here. I have a close friend who has seen one of these things in the (bright blue & sunny) sky right above the village where I used to live. Her response to seeing this image:
"thats exactly like it, to a T, only mine had a flame at one end."

She said it was moving slowly across the sky and saw it with her mother, accompanied by a sense of dread that her mother didnt share. The flow of time seemed to feel different somehow, and all of a sudden noone was around, which itself was unusual. I personally trust her account as gospel.

Again, there were many airship sightings around the country (and the notheast had its fair share) this time, most, if not all, matching the object in the photo.

Now let us take a look at the whole picture (we can never just take someones initial word for anything, especially in ufology)..

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a1236c565faf.jpg[/atsimg]

Courtesy: amongtheclouds.com

Personally I see nothing in the whole picture that would discredit the crop (the crop, if anything makes the picture look more suspect), in fact I believe it gives more credence to the picture. Again, not saying it is not a hoax by any stretch, just pointing out that this case is not closed by far.

Member atc_eh posted this:

4. There were a number of structures on the summit at this time including two hotels, and the train depot where the observers overwintered. No wooden fences as these would blow away

BUT he is blatantly wrong..

The Mount Washington Hotel opened in 1902 near Mount Washington, in the town of Carroll, New Hampshire. The area is better known as Bretton Woods, and includes the Bretton Woods ski resort nearby.

The hotel was constructed by the railroad tycoon Joseph Stickney at a cost of 1.7 million dollars. Construction on the hotel started in 1900 and the hotel opened to the public in 1902. Mr. Stickney brought in 250 Italian artisans to help in the construction.

en.wikipedia.org...

So now that posters credibility must immediately come into question somewhat, as he posted something major as factual--which was not. Now there was the Cog Railway, but other than that there was not much else.It was probably not intentional but it surely sheds doubt on his statement none-the-less. It becomes a little more obvious now that indeed in 1870 the mountain top was sparsely populated and not a "number of structures". Does this "debunk the debunker"? NO, certainly not, it just clearly shows, in my humble opinion, that this case is not so easy as to dismiss in a two or three paragraph post(and vice versa ). This case, with just my simple cross reference on the provided information, is still wide open in my opinion. Now what it was is still to be determined.




[edit on 8/12/2009 by jkrog08]

Originally posted by summerdreary
I don't really understand how it could be a submarine, though, because you can see clouds around it.

You never heard of UFO cylinders.
Thats how a submarine might fly.
Front and rear motors or transmitter and receiver set as done
in a Tesla patent.
Tesla was actually promoting patents related to electric flight.
The wireless power was loss less unless picked up by another
oscillator.
He pushed the ether, or air if you wish, back and forth as in radio
into a one way flow.
As so goes the saucer or cylinder.
ED: Again Tesla wanted documented proof the electric flight was
his invention.
ED+: According to Tesla's statements the craft suspension is
more stable than air. Wind did not move his craft and thus
there must be an ether that is very stable.

[edit on 8/12/2009 by TeslaandLyne]

[edit on 8/12/2009 by TeslaandLyne]

Wow, thats really cool. I guess I should have researched that, lol. When I think of submarines I think of underwater things.

Here is a short video i made long ago...

It does have some fakes... ( i know) but i think its up for this thread.

I wonder if the lantern type UFO have the conical coil inside.
What a gas that would be.
Look for out of the way places ordering large amounts of wire
for the saucer works.

Originally posted by summerdreary
Wow, thats really cool. I guess I should have researched that, lol. When I think of submarines I think of underwater things.

That is such a rare idea I doubt you will find many sources except
for Lyne, but it may have started with speculation on the German
work with Willy Ley before Von Braun on Tesla documentation they
had since 1914.

ED: There might be 100s of Tesla patents now withdrawn into
secret and all of Tesla works except for those returned to his
museum.

[edit on 8/12/2009 by TeslaandLyne]

Anyone on the 1927 Oregon photo.
Perhaps from Lyne again is Tesla exploits in Oregon no less.
Perhaps due to sightings around the time and earlier.

John Jakob Astor III might have funded early efforts in Oregon
that showed the stability of his ships against the wind.
Proving that the ether was stable and his ship did tap the ether.

ED: Approximate date 1890s and if pictures taken as part of the
field testing that Tesla would have taken, they are locked up
in the high classified Los Alamos library basement.
The Robert Oppenheimer perhaps unless the name was changed
or got the wrong name.
Wonder if availability is announced online.
Make a reservation on an unity unity process and check it out.


[edit on 8/12/2009 by TeslaandLyne]

So...the 2 photos from the 20s are still unexplained? Hmmm. These are really good photos yes? I am grateful to all that have spent time researching the few amazing pics floating around. S+F and bump for more exposure. BTW we have a new thread here on ATS debunking the first pic by a first hand experiencer. Great job with the thread.

A few years ago I saw a photograph, made in 1845. The man who used the camera had managed to make a fake ghost photograph even with the limited tools of the time. For this reason, I tend to doubt old UFO photos and the like that people tend to hold in high esteem, saying "This has to be real, because back then they couldn't make fake pictures!" Sorry, but they could.

Do I know for sure if these photos are fake? No. Am I skeptical of their authenticity? Yes. I take earlier written accounts with more faith than old pictures. Especially UFO writings from the Middle Ages, back when writing was a rare art that would have only been used for something of great importance ....

The first of the earlier photos is definitely a superimposed it is an old surveyors measure, by the way I found the original stereo at the Library of Congress for casebook. The 1927 is more than likely a fake. The reason I say this is that this photo is very similar to the St Paris Photograph of 1932 and the Scopes photograph of 1927. The Scopes photo is definitely a fake. Details of why are available here www.creationtips.com... The St Paris photo was once convinced was real because of the facts surrounding it, in that the person in the photo is George Sutton, the car is consistent with the number plate and he had a reason to be in St Paris at that time. But the Scopes photo must put serious doubts in everyones mind as to the reality.