One simple argument against Healthcare as a fundamental right!

Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by amazed

 

My point was that you cannot be turned away from the ER for inability to pay.

That, and to dispel the myth that people are dying in the streets because they can't get emergency care.

BULL, my DAD passed away, why? Because he did not have health insurance when he started having heart problems. What would happen? We would rush him to the ER, they would stabilize him so he did not die on their freaking doorstep, and then they would send him home. So don't give ME "people aren't dying in the streets". He didn't "die" in the "street" so to speak, but he sure as *snip* died because he did not have health insurance.

Not having health insurance means you don't get the care you need with the specialist you need. My dad was born and raised in this country. Worked from the age of 12 when his dad died to take care of his family. My dad was 52 when he died. How old are you? Ready to die that young just because health care is too expensive for you? At the rate the cost is rising, how much longer will YOU be able to afford it?

People who have nothing but greed in their souls saddens me to no end.

HARM NONE

reply to post by amazed


My dad died at age 48 from a heart attack. He was a union member and had full health insurance. So what's your point? People die.

I don't know why your dad didn't have insurance. With kids, he sure should have had insurance. No offense intended.

Good for you. Health care is not really health care. I think we can expect that the powers that be, with the nature they demonstrate, would never do anything without serious negative ulterior motives. Creating dependency on the state being one of them. The money should flow into the peoples hands so that they can pay their own way and if they can not, so that the medical providers can treat them without pay when needed.

We need to become a society of donation not taxation. The local and state and feds need to beg for handouts from the people and we need to donate to causes that we, as individuals, see as just, competently run and necessary. We need to prosecute abusers governments and extortion governments. "We" need to be doing good deeds by donating. We shouldn't accept be extorted or bullied to pay tribute. The crisis at hand should be used to wake people up to their need for a higher state of responsibility for the welfare of themselves and their community. We see what has happened as a result of the extortion tactics like personal taxation, traffic fines, etc.. It has not bettered the society. It has not served the society.

reply to post by amazed


If you were old enough why didn't you agree to help pay for his health problems or the rest of the family pitch in? I payed for my own families problems and they help with mine. That's the way it should be. Don't try and guilt trip us with the idea that because he was isolated that it's the general populations fault. That's harsh but it's the truth. Families used to do this and many still do. If you have taken steps to stay healthy why should you have to pay for someone elses health problems that are not related to you and then have the government tell you exactly what will be done instead of your personal physician making that decision along with the family and the patient?

Zindo

This is taking the thread a bit off track, and I might post a separate thread on this issue, but I think that one thing we should look at is preventative treatments.

If our tax dollars are going to go towards keeping all of us alive and healthy (which is a goal that I think most of us wouldn't disagree with, per se), then maybe our efforts should be directed towards getting people to drink Pinot Noir (as opposed to Wild Irish Rose), promoting dried beans, as opposed to canned beans (which are high in sodium, and poison for those of us prone to high blood-pressure), or encouraging people to use olive oil (as opposed to trans-fat-heavy paste).

I can't help but think that the costs would be lower if we were subsidizing resveratrol, non-trans-fats, low-sodium food, and romaine lettuce.

I haven't run any numbers, though, so I could be completely wrong.

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
And they also provide healthcare to those who can't afford it. And those that are on food stamps are hardly eating filet mignon and fresh vegetables every night like I pointed out.

I've never been on food stamps (even though I've certainly qualified for them, my pride got in the way), but I have been very poor. Let me tell you, we figure out how to take schlop that we buy at the liquor store, and make it taste like filet mignon.

(and maybe that's part of the problem )

[edit on 10-8-2009 by theWCH]

if they want us to work in their "system" they have to look after our health....

Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by amazed

 

My dad died at age 48 from a heart attack. He was a union member and had full health insurance. So what's your point? People die.

I don't know why your dad didn't have insurance. With kids, he sure should have had insurance. No offense intended.

I am sorry about your dad.

Completely ignored my question didn't you?

Let me repeat it. "How old are you? Ready to die that young just because health care and preventive health care is too expensive for you? At the rate the cost is rising, how much longer will YOU be able to afford it? "

Yes, my dad "should" of had insurance. Affordable health insurance. My dad's heart problems, COULD have been taken care of with the right specialist taking care of him, which he WOULD have had if insurance had been affordable. The truth, which many just love to ignore, is health care is far too expensive for an astronomical number of people.

Yes, people do die, but the horrible thing is when people die only because of the high cost of health care. This was my dad, he did not "have" to die at such a young age. If affordable health care had been available, then he would have received the care he deserved as a human being, his heart issues would most likely have been taken care of.

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
reply to post by amazed

 

If you were old enough why didn't you agree to help pay for his health problems or the rest of the family pitch in? I payed for my own families problems and they help with mine. That's the way it should be. Don't try and guilt trip us with the idea that because he was isolated that it's the general populations fault. That's harsh but it's the truth. Families used to do this and many still do. If you have taken steps to stay healthy why should you have to pay for someone elses health problems that are not related to you and then have the government tell you exactly what will be done instead of your personal physician making that decision along with the family and the patient?

Zindo

Wow, talk about no clue.

We all, ALL of us, did what we could. We all pitched in and out of our own pockets, and helped our parents as much as possible. My husband, our child and I even moved from the other side of the country to be with our family to help. Even to this day, many many many years later, I still assist my family as much as possible.

I agree that families should help each other when possible.

When my brother was in a car accident, and he ended up in a coma for the next 13ish years before he died, we brought him home and took care of him. You have NO idea how hard this was, physically, emotionally or financially. Our whole family pitched in every single day, not just financially, but being their for our mom on almost a daily basis in the physical care of my brother, and the emotional care of our mom. So please, don't even think you are telling me anything. Then, when my Mom in law was diagnosed with lung cancer, instead of sending her to a hospital or ignoring her, I moved her into my home and took care of her until she passed away. Are you aware of what that takes emotionally or financially? I still miss this woman, and will as long as I live.

I am first, and foremost, of the agreement that we should take care as much as possible our loved ones.

I also take this to the next level, humans, should help humans as much as possible if we ever want our society to move forward.

Looking out for nothing but your own pocketbook, and your own immediate family, does nothing to further our society.

I sincerely, am flabbergasted at the number of people who support corporations whos profits are the bottom line when it comes to peoples life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. But I guess it is only the rich who have the "right to life". If you are middle class, but can't afford health care, well too bad for you.

I have spent the past 20+ years learning about "medical issues" and health insurance companies, I have learned far more than I want to know. But what I have learned, and learned intensely, is that the health insurance companies, do not care one whit about what people really need to be healthy. They care ONLY about their profits. In all of these years, I have learned, that to get the care a person needs when very very ill, they have to fight these insurance companies at almost every step for what they need. Once you go above what the insurance companies want to pay for, they will push back, deny services, and try to drop you from their care.

Have a heart people, we are all humans, and in the end, we are all family. We may not be close relations, but we are ALL family and distant cousins. So let's take care of our "family".

Harm None
Peace

reply to post by amazed


I didn't mean to evade your question, but that is a very personal issue you are asking.

But I agree with you that we as humans should all try to help each other. It sounds like you not only 'talk the talk', but you 'walk the walk'. You have had more than your share of trials, and have handled them with much compassion. I commend and admire you. Sincerely.

Don't get the idea, tho, that I am against health care reform. I support it. But I do not support Obama's plan - it will bring us to financial ruin, much the same as Cap and Trade will do.

Sorr if it sounds like I don't trust him, but I don't. Never have, never will.