How many people really want to know "the truth" ?

It seems like everyone already has their minds made up about this or that. How many spend time, reflecting, mulling, and probing their own preconceptions?

People seem to pick their beliefs on any given topic based on what they think will benefit THEM. This is true of religion, politics, economics, etc. House owners argue that housing prices will always go up because that's what they WANT to believe, rather than because they have carefully considered the reality. Renters and goldbugs gleefully cheer the meltdown because they have no vested interest in the stockmarket or property, so if these things melt down it vindicates them and makes them look good. And so on. For just about every issue on any topic, you'll see the same dynamic on either side of a given argument. People are arguing based on what they WANT to be true, rather than taking a cold and objective apprasal of things.

I freely admit I'm guilty myself much of the time, although I recognize the tendancy and try to fight it...perhaps its a human survival tool of some sort...I once read a neurologist who said that when you are trying to pursuade somebody of something, your brain is much more able to put forth a convincing argument if you actually BELIEVE YOURSELF what you are arguing, rather than knowing you are lying. So your brain actually has the ability to sort of "brainwash itself" based on the arguments and pursuasions you have to make. And since for most people, argument and pursuasion arise out of the needs of life rather than a sincere search for truth, people end up "brainwashing themselves" into believing what they think will help them.

This strikes me as incredibly depressing. Although I try to seperate my own needs from an objective view of the truth as much as possible, and I know many others do too. It is possible to achieve this to a great extent if you work hard and consciously at it, and are aware of the issue. But most people are too intellectually lazy to push themselves this way. Very sad.

Allow me to offer the worn cliche that there's no such thing as an objective truth, except if you believe in the soul, a god (or whatever else that allows for absolutes), which isn't particularly objective to begin with.

Everything we percieve and know is filtered and processed in a subjective way by our brains and bodies, and as far as I know (I could be wrong) the simplest form of decision we make is essentially a neuron firing or not. Because of this, I can't see how objectivity as a concept is possible.

I believe becoming self-aware is a never ending process that requires experience, knowledge, education and adaptation. I say neverending because we are constantly changing, the process of understanding cannot cease. Even in death, beyond consciousness!

Interestingly on the subject of brainwashing, I recall reading Anton Wilson's "Prometheus Rising" and he mentions that whatever we think we can prove (I.E God -- yes I'm being subjective )

In conclusion, I know this may sound corny, but if my subjectivity is purely egocentric, I now tend to embrace it. I don't think I will ever be able to fully understand the what, whos and whatifs of what I have become. And I'm sure that any cold, objective reasoning I could possibly come up with, would end up being tainted at the most primordial of levels, my senses.



[edit on 8-8-2009 by Oscitate]

Originally posted by Oscitate
...Because of this, I can't see how objectivity as a concept is possible....
[edit on 8-8-2009 by Oscitate]

Perhaps absolute objectivity is not possible, but there is definitely a difference between: A) picking your beliefs first and then looking for info to back them up, versus B) coming to a question with an open mind, looking at both sides of the issue, and admitting to yourself what seems to be the truth, even if it is unpleasant or personally disadvantageous. I think humans are capable of both, but unfortunately it seems most people slide into the easier of the two paths, which is "A".

[edit on 8/8/09 by silent thunder]

They don't, all the years I have been on ATS even, the figures are disappointing....

Maybe 1 out of every 1,000 actually care to know what occurs out side their "world" so to say.

It was said best, and I agree completely;

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
- speech at the Philadelphia State House, August 1, 1776"
— Samuel Adams

Yes, I agree there is a big difference, but I still believe it is still relative. In short, and I don't mean to be pedantic (I realize this is an open topic ) but our minds in my opinion are not built to understand an external reality.

For instance, we see only a very small part of the electromagnetic spectrum. Visible light serves, as you say, for our surivial. Yet we are completely blind to the rest, and we see but an inkling of what dances all around us. I would extend that parallel to the other senses as well.

To make my case. If we were to judge and act with an objective reality, it would make more sense to adopt a different ethic system. One where killing off a large number of people in order to protect our species and planet would make more sense than if we had a more biased and human approach.

I hope that's clear, I'm rambling a little

look up advaita vedanta or vasistha.

I have experienced glimpses of absolute truth as have others. A reality where there is no subjectivity does exist, I promise you that. Don't stop where you are now ....keep going. Google all of this, nonduality, ramana maharshi, etc

Everything else is illusion. God is real

reply to post by dominicus


Perhaps. But then your signature implies that it is incomprehensible to human understanding. Which is exactly my point.

We are simply not built for it.

reply to post by ADVISOR

Gee whiskers! I thought it was a higher number than that!
Now whos spreading doom and gloom?
I realize you have probably about seen it all on here at some point
and I respect your opinion.

It a scary deal when we delude ourselves to the point of indifference!
I try not to be a pessimist. But our future is set whether we agree or not.
There will be lasting peace eventually, but it's the gettin' there thats'
gonna end up being a real doozy! IMO, of course.....

[edit on 8-8-2009 by dodadoom]

The truth hurts, it requires deep introspection and then action. Action to change existing belief structures and actions, and initiate new better ones. People involve themselves with their beliefs, that if Obama, Bush (insert name here) is really a crime lord hoisted upon us by some outside agency and they voted for him it in some way makes them bad, not that they made a mistake and can move forward. Or that if aliens exist it in some way makes them smaller, it's an ego thing. As such when information comes in which is contrary to that which is already inside our heads we experience what is known as cognitive dissonance, and it's uncomfortable, as such we tend to ignore the new information and stick with the old information. I've found that I really need to dig down deep to walk through the dissonance to the truth on the other side, sometimes the new info is true, sometimes it's a combination of both, however that journey hurts, most especially when it involves an admission of wrongdoing, even internally. It's all a matter of responsibility, a dirty word nowadays, but one which we've run as far and as fast away from as we can. I'll say I don't always want the truth myself, but I surround myself with people who don't sign off on my bullcrap and who correct me when I'm wrong. As such I grow, even when I don't want to I have no choice, it's either grow or die, and I'm done with living a life of living death. I did it for far too long.

Well, people often tell me I need to consider the other side. But what they often do not realize is that I already have.

The only real "absolute truth" is understanding. And because it is understanding it is like a math equation. There are many ways one can express that "absolute truth", but the real understanding behind it stays the same. 2+3=5, 9+1=10 and so forth, different expressions of the same reality.

And those expressions and even reality itself is but a subjective reality. Subject to the factors and variables used in the expression itself. Time, people, places, cultures, all just variables of an expression.

To find that expression is to find absolute truth, and yet at the same time it is extremely frustrating because you can't give it to someone else. As you, just like all things become reduced yourself to only being able to give expressions of it.

People call looking at these variables in a very literal way objective. But IMO, it is no different than trying to say 2+2=4 is the only true math equation, and have failed to look beyond what the sense provide. Once you find the equation, the understanding, and the "absolute truth", then you will realize that reality itself is an illusion and is in itself completely subjective.

And who knows, maybe then someday that might think and ask - well what in the heck is it that is doing the viewing and to what are the equations and these illusions being presented too.

[edit on 8/9/2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by silent thunder


"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" -Socrates
I think what you are talking about is what he was addressing with that quote.



[edit on 9-8-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Reply to post by badmedia

Too bad the human mind doesn't really deal in 1+1=2 but more in a+b=c especially when emotion get involved. And at a little bit of emotion is involved with everything.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by badmedia


∞ = 1

reply to post by Oscitate

Perhaps. But then your signature implies that it is incomprehensible to human understanding. Which is exactly my point. We are simply not built for it.

If thats true what you say ...then how did the guy I quoted in my signature know this?

This can be experienced, but what it is then there is no 'I' experiencing it. It becomes the experience itself. I personally and many others here have glimpsed absolute truth ...but at the time in was in a state of no I.

This stuff is real. Eventually we will all have this Absolute state. It's coming.