Christians could just as easily be worshipping Ra, Baal, or Anu today

I have some issues with the present form of religions and their gods. I have problems with the concept of "Messiah" and i have also problems with the concept of hell and heaven, priesthood,and punishment by god in case of disobedience.

It is my personal view that these faiths hinder us from developing our consciousness. The psychological programming of following rituals and deities make us depend on them for our own growth and development. There has not been any massacre or genocide, which was not influenced by religious hatred and divide so far. Almost every religion has its own messiah, which make their followers to look up in the sky for "Big Daddy to come and save" in any problem rather providing them solutions. Better, we can change ourselves or change the cause of the problem rather expecting someone to come and save us. I think movies have played a great role in planting the seed of "Saviour" in us. I do have great respect for all the life on this planet, but no respect for any religious rituals or their gods. We think that whatever is written in Bible, Koran, or Geeta are words of God; but we should not forget that whatever we read now is mere interpretations made by many religio-political leaders for their own good sake. So we should not wonder if we find something sounds contradictory to humanity and we should filter them while reading any religious text. It is my personal feeling that no one is going to come from the sky to save us and bring us from our troubles rather we ourselves. It sounds bit pessimistic, but in turn it would reward us for developing and finding our own ways to improve our life and progress towards harmony as a human race. The entire universe does function by a highly intelligent being; and follow some laws and it does not give any priority to us over other life forms in the universe, for that everything and everyone is same. It is my personal view that it might not be the way we view "God". We might be the victim of interpretations. It is only us who being united and one can lead ourselves harmoniously on our journey in the vast realm of universe and i think we are capable of doing that without any god's representatives. No one has divine right on me except myself and I do not have any respect for anyone which claim to have divine right on me.

reply to post by Bigwhammy

Actually it is blatantly clear. Compare Christian areas like western Europe and the United States to the areas that favor pagan gods like India, or SE Asia... and you see the impact it has on societies.

Then what about the European dark ages when despite Christianity having a strong hold in Western Europe it was the Islamic nations that would have been considered the more enlightened. By your logic it is undeniable that Islam was the one true religion.

You can go further back and ask why, if Christianity is the cause of scientific and ethical enlightenment then why was ancient Greece far more open to scientific and philosophical advancement than later, Christian, Europe?

It should also be noted that as much of the world has moved towards secularism and away from religion as a basis, the definition, expansion and enforcement of human rights as increased dramatically as has scientific advancement.

Further more what about the areas of the world that despite being Christian nevertheless suffer from poverty and violence to a greater degree than many non Christian areas. For example much of sub Saharan Africa or South America which are both predominantly Christian but still far less prosperous than Western Europe and NA or even many non Christian countries.

It’s not really that blatant is it.

I'm just going to vent on this topic somthing I've wanted to say for the longest time in my life. Religion is the most stupidest and most evil thing to ever hapen to Earth. Men worship a book or a scroll or a 'holy god's' teachings. Then they find different interpretations, and no matter how slight they may be, they drive man to kill those that don't agree, be it his neighbor, someone he never knew, or his family, if they don't believe as he does they will kill them or beat the religion into them in order to convert and 'save their soul'. Using fear and torture ,like Christianity, isn't the way to convert people to your religion.

Then we have the corrupted use the religions to their advantages to start war, be it modern or past. No matter how you look at it, man will use it to his advantage, be it evil or good. To try to save them or use it to steal the money or property through brainwashing them into thinking the holy building is in trouble and need yor 'donations' to help them out.

And yet people still belive it. Why? It is because the religions play on humanity's greatest flaws of all, stupidity and ignorance. Exploiting these traits makes you as, if not more evil than the 'unholy' bad guy. Yet people now and will always follow it and never realize they have been duped.

Bhuudism, on the otherhand, never tries to convert, and only looks to let you develop your self, that's what a religion should be, even though Bhuudism isn't a religion, but a lifestyle. Try it.

These and many other reasons are why we don't need it in our lives.
Look in yourself, only you can find your own happyness. There is no need to be bossed around by a god or diety or whateverthehell you worship.

The Killah29 out.

[edit on 8/8/2009 by The Killah29]

Originally posted by starsyren
reply to post by daysofnoe

 

Y'see? This is the point we were trying to make....you're the Christian, so you must be right...cuz Christianity is the only one true religion.

I think that if any one religion on this Earth were THE ONE TRUE religion, it'd be so blatantly clear to everyone on the globe that there'd be no need to question it or anything else.

But our creator (who/whatever it is) gave us minds capable of great intelligence and hearts capable of great love and compassion. Now, personally, I think being equipped with both of these (and using them to the greatest capacity we can muster) is what makes us worthy such gifts....not which religion we adhere to.

You are labeling me a Christian. I do not believe in religion. I lived over twenty three years of my life not believing in God. I am not a life long card carrying Christian. I go to a Pentecostal church, because that is where God lead me when I had a breakdown and asked Him a question. 'What is the deal with Jesus?' He did not answer it when I asked Him, He said to me, "That is for another time." By chance months later, after I forgot all about that moment, I, by what seemed to be chance, went to church for the first time in like a decade. And the service was about how Jesus Christ was God putting on a 'flesh-robe' and coming to earth. It hit me that my question had been answered. I do not call myself a Pentecostal. I do not call myself Apostalic. But I do proclaim loud and clear that I beleve (no i, cause here is no lies in the truth.) I beleve that Jesus Christ is God and God is real. I beleve that the Holy Bible is the word of God. And that every thing in that book that has not happen, shall come to pass.

I have been to hell. I have been shown the flames and I felt the heat. It is no joke. It is not God's will for any man to perish. I am doing my part in God's calling on my life to help save Gentiles from the place I once walked a path to. If you are enlightened, HALLELUJAH! But if you choose to be blind, I shall not tear apart my soul for your ignorance.

reply to post by The Killah29
You’re forgetting one thing.

Everything you’ve described is the corruption MAN has infused into Christianity.

MAN has turned Christianity into something of a social register, a tool to be used to manipulate, a way to use others and rape them or their selves, their freedoms, their money, a tool to degrade and enslave and control.

That is what MAN has given Christianity.

Christianity, in it’s purest form, is to be Christ like.

What did Christ do?

He gave of Himself to others, He loved, He healed, He fed the poor, gave counsel to the depressed, lifted UP people, did not pull them down and even when He judged, He loved them and just told them not to do it any more.

Christ's greatest command, is, to ‘Love one another like you wish to be loved yourself’.

That is Christianity.

If you can find fault with thre, well, I hope some day your heart can be opened to something so pure, and so filled with joy. Maybe not now, but someday.

Peace

No matter how much you want to feign ignorance to live your own lifestyle - You all instinctively know Jesus is Lord.

Er, no, I don't know any such thing.

I'm happy for you to speak for yourself but please don't be so presumptious as to speak for others.

reply to post by daysofnoe



You still haven't answered my question about what you would say to a Hindu who claims all the same kinds of experiences as you. Your evidence for your own belief being correct amounts to "it's true because I believe it".

I am doing my part in God's calling on my life to help save Gentiles from the place I once walked a path to. If you are enlightened, HALLELUJAH!

reply to post by daysofnoe


All that, and you disagree with the "Christian"-Label???? You don't have to be carrying a card when you come across like a walking billboard. Don't get me wrong, I understand wanting to share a good thing...but it's the evangelical-convert-or-die mentality that really turns people off to such things.
"...God's calling on my life to help save Gentiles", you make it sound as though all the "Gentiles" of the world are ignorant heathens. I, for one, have studied religion (world religions, christianity, etc) at collegiate levels and beyond...I, personally, DO believe in a creator god and my relationship with it is exactly that...mine. My issue, as I mentioned earlier (I think), has been with the evolution of the "institution" of the church. It's become more about building bigger, more ornate churches & "saving the Gentiles", and less about getting your own life right and being a good person. THAT, I can do without some self-ordained stranger.

Originally posted by Mike_A
You still haven't answered my question about what you would say to a Hindu who claims all the same kinds of experiences as you. Your evidence for your own belief being correct amounts to "it's true because I believe it".

I suggest that you move on then

Because you will not receive answer which at least does not include "Bible said so" or "they are all wrong" or "we'll all know when we die who is right"

Originally posted by Mike_A
reply to post by daysofnoe

 

You still haven't answered my question about what you would say to a Hindu who claims all the same kinds of experiences as you. Your evidence for your own belief being correct amounts to "it's true because I believe it".

I would have to come to that bridge before I could cross it. I do not know much about religion. So I do not know what experiences they would bring to the table. I despised religion, and for the most part I still do. Buddha did not reveal himself to me. Jesus Christ did. Most of these people are searching for Buddha or Mohammed or whatever. I was not searching for anything.

I do know that if I talked to the parents of a four armed child born in India not too long ago, who thought there child was Lakshmi or something reborn, I would say, "Why then is she on life support?"

reply to post by whiterider


I have still yet to see proof of JC's existence. The story is a good one, don't get me wrong. Most of the stories in the bible are good, mainly because they were stolen from other religions and manipulated. I cannot figure out how so many follow a faith that is so unbelievably clearly stealing, splicing, and bastardizing other faiths. If nothing else, I'll admit that Christianity, the religion not the church, sends a positive message in the form of living clean and what not, but you do not need a Frankenstein faith to do that.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by undo

 

Exactly undo - the same fallen angels have manifested themselves over and over as various "gods" and its not as if the scriptures have not addressed the gods you mentioned. It has addressed them explicitly.

"I said, “You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High. But you shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes.”" (Ps 82:6-7)

They will die like men.


reply to post by kiwifoot

 

You act like the Christian scripture hasn't addressed these other "gods". They have been addressed, exposed and summarily dismissed.

My Bible software just returned 111 hits on Baal. This is a personal favorite.

"Then Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, “Choose for yourselves one bull and prepare it first, for you are many, and call upon the name of your god, but put no fire to it.” And they took the bull that was given them, and they prepared it and called upon the name of Baal from morning until noon, saying, “O Baal, answer us!” But there was no voice, and no one answered. And they limped around the altar that they had made. And at noon Elijah mocked them, saying, “Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he is relieving himself, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened.” And they cried aloud and cut themselves after their custom with swords and lances, until the blood gushed out upon them. And as midday passed, they raved on until the time of the offering of the oblation, but there was no voice. No one answered; no one paid attention." (1 Ki 18:25-29)

As far as the Egyptian gods, Moses confronted Pharaoh and the one true God did a smack down on them as well:

"‘For I will pass through the land of Egypt on that night, and will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord." (Ex 12:12)

In fact God has issued a challenge that has never been met by any of these impostors:

"“Remember this, and show yourselves men; Recall to mind, O you transgressors. Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,’" (Is 46:8-10)

Yes and then Jesus came and fulfilled over 300 Old Testament prophecies to the letter.

" God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they." (Heb 1:1-4)

He is the alpha and omega - the Lord of Lord and King of Kings and I promise every one of you every knee will bow to him. Whether you do it now willingly or later when its too late is entirely up to you!

"“Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath." (Is 45:22-23)

[edit on 8/7/2009 by Bigwhammy]

Who does religion always sound like a Stargate episode?

2nd line

Originally posted by starsyren

All that, and you disagree with the "Christian"-Label???? You don't have to be carrying a card when you come across like a walking billboard. Don't get me wrong, I understand wanting to share a good thing...but it's the evangelical-convert-or-die mentality that really turns people off to such things.
"...God's calling on my life to help save Gentiles", you make it sound as though all the "Gentiles" of the world are ignorant heathens. I, for one, have studied religion (world religions, christianity, etc) at collegiate levels and beyond...I, personally, DO believe in a creator god and my relationship with it is exactly that...mine. My issue, as I mentioned earlier (I think), has been with the evolution of the "institution" of the church. It's become more about building bigger, more ornate churches & "saving the Gentiles", and less about getting your own life right and being a good person. THAT, I can do without some self-ordained stranger.

Man has tarnished the Christian label, so yes I will still disagree with being called a Christian. I am a son of God. One of the first things Jesus said to Peter and Andrew was, "Come and I will make you fishers of men." Later He said to Peter, "On this rock I will build my church." If you go into most churches and ask them what the church is. They will say, 'your in it. this is church.' The church is the body of Christ. And all those who are a part of it, it is there duty to speard the word of God. All members of the body of Christ, the church, are to be fishers of men. My "convert-or-die mentality" as you put it, is because I have been to hell. And I do not desire that anyone go there. If someone is not converted, they are going to go there. There is a saying, "There's no money is preaching you go to hell." And that is fine with me, because this is not about money. Hence, I deny the Christian label, which man has made into a business.

Paul wrote:

1Corinthians 12:2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.


And that was once me. I had so many idols, I did not even realize. I used to blaspheme. I have had the knowledge of truth for only four months. For at least fourteen years before that I did not believe in anything abd did not think I would ever believe in anything. If you told me in January that I would be posting on a message board trying to turn people onto God, I would have laughed until milk came out my nose. I would have been on the side talking about how aliens will one day come and discussing the different theorys of 2012. God is going to draw on every person on last time in the last days, those who answer will be a part of a major revivel, those who do not will have to wait for that day when every knee will bow before Him and every tongue confess their lives deeds. I can speak to the world, because I came from the world and know it's ways and how the devil lies. I am not self-ordained, God has called me for His will.

Daysofnoe, this is that bridge. If you have not asked these people yourself I am relaying to you what they say because I have asked them.

You say that your god has revealed himself to you, many Muslims say the same, you say that Jesus changed your life; again Hindus say the same of their gods.

Why do these kinds experiences prove the existence of your god when you have them but not other gods when other people have them?

I was dipped into the flames of hell and saw and felt them. Then God spoke to me, a non believer, knowing with all my being that it was Him. A few months later I was filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues, not even know what they were. Having no Bible knowledge at all. By what manner are these Muslim and Hindu experiences? Give me the story of someone who had no religious beleifs or knowledge that had their life changed in an instant by their gods.

Originally posted by kiwifoot
There are so many religions that predate Christianity. There are many Gods and Goddesses, Deities and Spirits that have been worshiped from the beginning of time. The only difference is Christianity came out on top.

I mean think about it, even Christianity came from Judaism, so it's not even original in that sense.

So I really mean it. if the devotees of Egyption religion had prospered more, had spread the word of Ra a little more, then all you Christians may be worshipping him right now.

If the Baalites had had a better run in history and their kingdoms had prospered, instead of heading to a church on a Sunday, you'd find yourself going to an Alter to Baal.

If the Sumerian, Assyrian and Babylonian empires had not fallen, I bet Judaism would not have taken a grip and hence Christianity, and on the 25th of December we'd have Anumas Day, after the God Anu.

Christianity could have been any of these religions, it was all a matter of politics, wars, kingdoms and chance.

Christianity could have never been any of those religions because Jesus gave us the two great commandments to "love the Lord your God" and "love your neighbor as yourself".

reply to post by daysofnoe


What do you mean you had no religious beliefs or knowledge? You have already said that you went to church and asked god to reveal Jesus to you prior to your current state of belief. Clearly you had a predisposition to consider the Christian faith over others. More so because you grew up in a predominantly Christian culture. Had you been born in Islamabad then you probably would have favoured Islam.

As for the experiences of other faiths, again they are the same as yours with the specifics of names and such changed for their own particular gods. I’ve heard this hundreds of times through talking to these people so I can’t give you a link. Talk to these people, find a Muslim forum and ask about their personal experiences of their Allah and you’ll get much the same response as you have given.

But if you don't want to do that let's make this a hypothetical, what would you say if a Muslim, Hindu, whatever told you, to your face, that they have had similar experiences of their god?

I went to church as a child. A lot of the time I slept through it. I did not have knowledge, because I did not hold onto any of it. When it came to Jesus, I had heard about Him being 'The Son Of God,' heard about the trinity. I figured that Jesus did not even ever exist. I thought that if there was a satan and hell, it would be a party and I would rock out forever with satan. When I had my experience of being taken to hell, I was shown (and I also felt) the emptyness, lonieness, pain and anguish of it. I did not ask for the experience to happen, it did not come as the result of prayer, because I used to mock prayer as 'people talking to themselves.' I asked about Jesus, because I KNEW that I was talking to God. The next day I denied that it even happened. And that continued for a couple months. I went to church by chance to have the revelation that Jesus is God.

If anything, the culture I surrounded myself in was satanic. If I grew up in Islamabad and had the freedom to think however I wanted, Jesus would have revealed Himself to me as God. Islams do not have the freedom to think what they want, they are forcefeed that religion from birth. That my friend is a tool of the devil.

I would ask how many diseases Muhammed cured? Or how many cripple did Buddha give the ability to walk? How many cancer paitents has the 'three interchangeable persons of the Holy Trinity' healed?

Jesus Christ picked a shirt of mine off the ground and threw it in the trash. He healed one of my mother's best friends from an eye condition that would have rendered her blind in the future. He realigned my cousins car. There is nothing God can not do. He has healed lame Muslims and they called on His name and He filled them with The Holy Spirit. They converted to Christianity.

I do not back myself into a corner of being a Christian. I do not label myself with a religion. I believe on the oneness of God, I believe Jesus Christ is God. And that is not from influence of others. That is because Jesus revealed Himself to me. I did not know what the Holy Ghost was when I was filled with it. I had no idea what tongues where when I spoke them. But after that happened I was asked if I wanted to be baptized in Jesus name. And I said, "I have never read the Bible." The pastor said, that's okay. My cousin's showed me in the Bible, Acts. And it blew my mind, so I got baptized and I believe now that the Bible is the word of God. The furtherest I ever got into the Bible before that was the flood. And I laughed and mocked it. Now, I believe that to be a historical event.

The point is that you had a pre-existing Christian framework; that was your point of reference.

So to say that Jesus popped into your life out of nowhere is disingenuous.

If I grew up in Islamabad and had the freedom to think however I wanted, Jesus would have revealed Himself to me as God. Islams do not have the freedom to think what they want, they are forcefeed that religion from birth. That my friend is a tool of the devil.

Your arguments are once again applicable to any religion.

You were taken to church weren’t you? What you describe is having the Christian religion in your life from birth, even if you weren’t taking an active part in it (though through what you describe you were) you still would have had Christian influences from birth because of the culture that surrounds you and everyone else in a Christian culture.

Your claim that Muslims do not have the freedom to think and are force fed their religion from birth denies the fact of converts to and apostates from that particular faith. You can’t make these claims of someone who grew up in a Christian culture who then converted to Islam; nor can you say that Muslims are incapable of free thought when many do question their fait and either practice it differently, convert to another religion or reject belief in a deity altogether.

I would ask how many diseases Muhammed cured? Or how many cripple did Buddha give the ability to walk? How many cancer paitents has the 'three interchangeable persons of the Holy Trinity' healed?

Muslims attribute many miracles to Muhammad and Allah just as Christians do of Jesus.

You can claim that Jesus did this and that and Muslims claim the same of Muhammad. Neither has any proof of these miracles so they are just one word against another. And that is the question, why is your word, you belief any better than anyone else’s?

You can’t pretend that other people don’t make these same claims, they most emphatically do. So how do you reconcile that with your own beliefs?

What I’m getting at is any answer to this question can always be turned back on your own belief. If Muslims, converts and all, can be mistaken then why not you? If Hindus can be delusional, why not you? You have no outside standard by which to judge what is true or not.

reply to post by daysofnoe


Been livin in the light for only four months and Jesus is doing your laundry?

This is what we're doing wrong ya'll...

...we're chasing the knowledge. For YEARS, on my end. I'd rather have the knowledge over the complacency...and I'll pick up my own shirts


Starsyren, OUT.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by starsyren]