English = The Universal Pilot Language.

So why would an instruction manual be written in Arabic?, you need to be able to read write and speak English to become a pilot, we are led to believe there were at least 4 terrorists whom had pilot licences, why would the books found in their luggage etc be written in Arabic?.

reply to post by Seventh


Because it is NOT terrorists that did the 9/11 murders.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Blue skies.

reply to post by Seventh


The "Universal" Air Traffic Control language is supposed to be English. This is not the case, always. When flying Internationally, it can be quite annoying because controllers and 'natives' speak their common language to each other.

Just so your thread won't languish in obscurity;

from Airliners.net Tech/Ops Forum

Canadian North
posted Sun Aug 24 2008 18:48:03 your local time (11 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1004 times:

"In aircraft maintenance school we were taught that pretty much all commercial aircraft manufacturers made their various manuals in english only. Also, we heard that airlines were free to translate them to whatever language they wish, but they were on their own as the manufacturer would only accept liability for aircraft that were maintained as per the manufacturers version of the manuals, which as said is english-only."
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SlamClick From United States, joined Nov 2003, 9994 posts, RR: 77
Reply 7, posted Sun Aug 24 2008 19:25:36 your local time (11 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 992 times:

Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 6):
'In aircraft maintenance school we were taught that pretty much all commercial aircraft manufacturers made their various manuals in english only.'

"I'd bet that is true - for the non-Soviet part of the world. Russia plays it all pretty close to the vest and hangs on to all things Russian.

I've often laughed at "Engrish" and instructions from things coming out of China and thought I'd love to translate for them, but that leads me around to the fact that I don't speak or read Chinese at all. At that point my smug self-satisfaction pretty well evaporates."
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BuckFifty From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1281 posts, RR: 27
Reply 8, posted Sun Aug 24 2008 21:00:54 your local time (11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 973 times:


"Most Japanese airlines I know of have their manuals translated to Japanese. Some manuals are translated as separate manuals, others are translated with their English reference underneath."

I'd venture a guess, here. Airlines that are based in the Middle East might have translated Flight Manuals...geeeee....ya think???

how do you know what was in the books? i see no source

reply to post by Seventh


Speaking in English is one thing. Reading a manual to help master flying an airplane is another.

Okay put it this way, everything about these planes was based in English, to get a pilots licence you need a very good understanding of English, if they were planted to add credibility to the OS then surely manuals in English would have been a far more viable option?.

Just wondering how hard/easy it would be to get an Arabic flying manual in America, and surely it must be the case that to get a pilot`s licence in the 1st place you have conquered the art of flying via use of the English language, unless ofc these guys only learnt to fly Jet`s on the way to the airport from a book .

Originally posted by weedwhacker

I'd venture a guess, here. Airlines that are based in the Middle East might have translated Flight Manuals...geeeee....ya think???

I`d venture a bigger guess, the Jets used that day did not come from the middle East, and as i`ve pointed out once you have your licence which is based on English you don`t need a manual.

reply to post by Seventh


No. The FARs say "Read and Understand English". NOTHING about having a 'very good knowledge' of English.

Sec. 61.103 - Eligibility requirements: General.

To be eligible for a private pilot certificate, a person must:

*******
(c) Be able to read, speak, write, and understand the English language.

reply to post by Seventh

Just wondering how hard/easy it would be to get an Arabic flying manual in America

Who said the manuals were obtained in America?

...and surely it must be the case that to get a pilot`s licence in the 1st place you have conquered the art of flying via use of the English language

So poetic! 'art of flying'!

Yes, to obtain a US Airman's Certificate you must demonstrate sufficient English. Also, the studying is in English, and the Written Tests are in English. BUT, if you're planning the mission of a lifetime (literally) then having some of your native language as well, to read and comprehend easier and quicker, is an asset.

I had a guy from Japan, many years ago, when I was an Instructor, who wanted a Multi-Engine rating. He had a Japanese Pilot's License only, and spoke NO ENGLISH! Well, certain aviation terms, adopted even into the Japanese language from English. Thing is, his government would accept the records of his training in the US, and after completing everything that would normally be required of a US Airman, he could take everything home and be issued the Japanese equivalent. IT WAS CHEAPER for him to do it here. He had a guaranteed job at Japan Air Lines (yikes!!!). We flew, with an interpreter. I had some doubts, at first, but considered it a challenge, and you know what? He was a very good pilot! Of course, I handled the radios, and we conducted extensive briefings and de-briefings as part of the lessons, but he came well-prepared, and knowledgeable.

reply to post by weedwhacker


WW, you think though, that its safe to say that these hijacker pilots had more experience than the government would like us to know.

Possibly actually having flown 757's and 767's ? Or at least more than just flying Cessna's around, more likely bigger faster planes(for experience and/or preparation for 9/11)?

reply to post by Stillresearchn911


Um, we already know they had more experience than just flying Cessnas. One does not get a commercial flying license without flying something other than a Cessna.

reply to post by Stillresearchn911


Stillresearchn911, yes to answer your question, I think the main players (at least one guy per airplane) had purchased time in simulators. Wouldn't matter if it was a 757 or 767 sim, insofar as the cockpit arrangement is virtually identical (they share a common type rating, you know...)

Anyway, the mere "stick and rudder" flying of a large jet in beautiful VFR weather like on that day, is pretty straightforward. And, since we have a yaw damper, don't even need to use the rudder, for cruise, or in turns.

SO, someone who already has a licence, has a couple of hundred hours, can fly a jet, if you're just talking about steering in flight.

They also were taught the FMS, how to use the various Modes, and how the AutoPilot is programmed via those modes. I daresay there are plenty of wannabe airline pilots out there who know how to use the systems, they can fly it on home computers, with the various flight programs available.

If you and I had half a day, we could brief for about two hours, discussing the upcoming lesson, we could then fly in the Sim for about two hours, and you would then learn enough of the basics to be able to program a destination into the CDU, and thusly into the FMC, then engage the Flight Director, through the FMS, and engage the AutoPilot to give you the lateral navigation. "Telling" the airplane how to descend or climb is even easier.

After, we'd then debrief. An hour or so, to cear up any lingering questions.

THIS is the standard scenario that airline pilots go through, for every Sim session. (At least at my company). Of course, we'd have two pilots at the same time, for a full crew, so the Sim would be two sessions of two hours each. Makes for an almost full eight hour day, with a lunch break, of course.

Swampfox, for us Civvies, getting a Commercial certificate merely means having the minimum number of hours, the Instrument Rating, and experience in what the FAA defines as "complex", which just means high-horsepower, constant-speed prop, and retracts.

The Cessna 210 qualifies, technically. A few Piper models, The Rockwell 112, I suppose too....although I think it only has 180 HP...(I haven't used my CFI for many years...)

So nobody on either side has any kind of information as to what books they were in possession of? Because otherwise its pure speculation. I would love to have an intelligent debate about this, but BOTH sides are unarmed ATM.

reply to post by jprophet420


Here we go bud....

911research.wtc7.net...

reply to post by Seventh


Let me see....

You are on a suicide mission so you DONT GIVE A S@#$ what happens
afterwards!

Besides there were enough clues to point to them and Bin Laden anyways

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by Seventh

 

Let me see....

You are on a suicide mission so you DONT GIVE A S@#$ what happens
afterwards!

Besides there were enough clues to point to them and Bin Laden anyways

Suicide mission regardless, if you`re learning to fly en route to hijack a plane.

reply to post by Seventh

...if you`re learning to fly en route to hijack a plane.

I see your logical disconnect, here. They were NOT "learning to fly" on their way to the hijackings!!! THAT sort of hand-waving is part of the problem, here.

They had already had the training, in the simulators. The manuals were for memory jogging, research and preparation. Every major airline pilot must own the same manuals and at least ONE crewmember must have them in possession, with them, at work. They are referred to often, even by seasoned pilots.

Did anyone read the article from the Miami Herald?? It was in the link up above.

Originally posted by weedwhacker

I see your logical disconnect, here. They were NOT "learning to fly" on their way to the hijackings!!! THAT sort of hand-waving is part of the problem, here.

They had already had the training, in the simulators. The manuals were for memory jogging, research and preparation. Every major airline pilot must own the same manuals and at least ONE crewmember must have them in possession, with them, at work. They are referred to often, even by seasoned pilots.

Did anyone read the article from the Miami Herald?? It was in the link up above.

No my dear WW, the whole purpose of this manual is `Lookey here, we have found the terrorists`, what would have been far more realistic and of much more use here, as far as manuals are concerned is `Navigation, Plotting, American cities, Designated Routes, and You, Flight Planner for dummies`.

Seriously, a manual - in Arabic - how to fly -, everything about these flights would be in English, the controls, flight data, radio messages, etc, etc, could argue forever here as the intended targets of 3 from 4 where absolutely perfect, in fact Hani Hanjour`s was deemed Tom Cruise standard, now where these three acts of perfection flying down to.. Not needing to study, or sharing 1 book between 19?.

This is a silly thread with a silly non-point.

Having spent considerable time living in non native English speaking Countries I can assure that a technical publication such as an aircraft technical manual are routinely translated into the native language. Not only aircraft, but Medical Books, Automotive Books, etc., etc. are translated. The translation may be Official or Unofficial.

I have also taught non-native English speakers to fly and they translated virtually everything into their own language to facilitate better learning.

It's not unusual or suspicious, it is entirely normal.....