Ehud Barak warns Iran of possible Israeli strike on nuclear facilities

reply to post by A Conscience


The reason is Iran "has" threatened to attack Isreal's nuclear reactor and it's nuclear weapons supply.

If they do, the results would be as I stated them.

But more specifically
on topic.....

Iran has placed it's nuclear weapons facilities under and in the middle of their largest population centers.

Their reasons is when their nuclear weapon making facilities are destroyed, it will cause the largest amount of civilian deaths.

Remember, this is Iran who sent over a million boys 13 years old and so on to die fighting Iraq......

They don't care about civilian lives as much as the big show they would make of it.

Think about this logically for a moment.....

If you have nuclear weapon facilities that you have been clearly told would not be allowed to finish developing nuclear weapons.....

You place them in the middle of civilian centers and under them, it is done not to protect them but to cause the most civilian deaths as possible, so they can cry about how their nuclear bomb facilities were destroyed and many civilians were killed, as per Iran';s plan.

This is exactly like what their lapdogs Hamas do.

They attack Israel from schools/playgrounds, civilian homes....
and they know good and well the response to their attack will go to the location of the launch.......

Welcome to another episode of "As the Middle East Churns"...

You all speak as if this is some forgone conclusion... either Iran will attack Israel, or Israel will attack Iran...

What makes this such a forgone conclusion? Both countries leadership know what happens if they try, and fail, to destroy each others nukes... It begins with a woosh, and ends with a colossal fireball...neither side wants that. Stupidly ideologically locked in they may be, but stupidly suicidal they are not...

Nuclear war has been an ever present threat since Sept. of 1945, they've been used twice, both times in 1945, that's 60 plus years and some odd days ago, folks. Through situations that were much more dire than these...Cold War? Cuban Missile Crisis? Yom Kippur War? ...and oddly enough nothing.

It's all very well and good to be concerned...I certainly am. However, Israel and Iran are very unlikely to make attempts on each others nuclear facilities...

...both have far too much to lose.

My not so humble opinion, of course.

reply to post by mrmonsoon

The reason is Iran "has" threatened to attack Isreal's nuclear reactor and it's nuclear weapons supply.

Can you please provide your source for that assumption? All I heard and read so far is about Israel's threat to bomb Iran. Nothing that is credible about Iran attacking Israel.

If you have nuclear weapon facilities that you have been clearly told would not be allowed to finish developing nuclear weapons....

For a start, I don't support this BS about Iran not being allowed to developed their nuclear facilities. Who gave who the right to dictate to Iran what it wants to do with its country's nuclear need. Did any country object to Israel's nuclear weapons? OH, I forgot, Israel does not confirm or deny it possession of nuclear weapons.

As mentioned in an earlier post, the poor bastard is still rotting in jail for his attempt at disclosing Israel's nuclear facilities. A person of conscience paying the ultimate price for whistle blowing. If you can't recall, let me remind you he was illegally kidnapped by Mossad agents in London and whisked out to Israel for incarceration.

What double standards are you applying here?

The only country in the middle east that is continuing to violate human rights, committing war crimes, atrocities against civilian population, ethnic cleansing and ongoing terror campaigns is Israel.

That is the country that people should be afraid of. It is the only country in the world right now that has the capacity, capability and warped sense of religious fanaticism to drag the whole world into World War III.

Be very afraid!

reply to post by seagull


The only difference is Israel already has an estimated 300 or so illegal nuclear weapons.And iran has none,they definitely don't have the capacity to make them themselves.So we would have to assume they bought them,which is quite a large logical jump to make.Thats why i cant stand israels rhetoric about iran having nuclear weapons...it is the absolute height of hypocrisy.And if you mention it people either dodge the question or make up some backwards excuse for them having those illegal nukes while in another breath saying we should attack iran on what if's or maybes about nuclear weapons.

Originally posted by Solomons
reply to post by seagull

 

The only difference is Israel already has an estimated 300 or so illegal nuclear weapons.And iran has none,they definitely don't have the capacity to make them themselves.So we would have to assume they bought them,which is quite a large logical jump to make.Thats why i cant stand israels rhetoric about iran having nuclear weapons...it is the absolute height of hypocrisy.And if you mention it people either dodge the question or make up some backwards excuse for them having those illegal nukes while in another breath saying we should attack iran on what if's or maybes about nuclear weapons.

Can you please show me a source that says their weapons are illegal and who has declared it. (seriously, please)

Honestly, we don't really know, hnestly, if Iran has nuclear weapons or not. Either home made or purchased on the open or black market.
(I am thinking like some of the missing suitcase nukes from soviet union)

We do clearly know they are refining nuclear material.

We clearly know that they have increased the number of centerfuges working on refing nuclear materal several times-I mean their president has proudly has announced it to the world each time.

I "personally" think it is ignorant to honestly believe they are not working on nuclear weapons along with power generation.

(Of course their case for power would be far better if they did not have large natural resources to power conventional power stations.)

I mean they could build a dozen oil,coal,natral gas power stations and no one in the world would care one bit.

But they insist on nuclear.....just saying......just my opinion...

reply to post by mrmonsoon

I "personally" think it is ignorant to honestly believe they are not working on nuclear weapons along with power generation.

So what wrong with Iran having nuclear weapons? You are still applying your double standards here.

If Irag and Afghanistan had nuclear weapons, the hundreds of thousand of innocent civilians will still be alive today. Is that bad?

If not for the threat of USSR nuclear response, America would have dropped the nuclear bomb on China and North Vietnam during the Korean & Vietnam war. That is a documented fact.

Nuclear weapons, when possessed by more countries, saves lives, not destroy lives. It is the threat of nuclear deterrent that keeps countries sane. It is when possession is restricted to a few privileged countries, that the spectre of insanity prevails.

reply to post by A Conscience


So to be clear...

You completely agree with me.

There is no question in your mind that Iran is working on nuclear weapons.
(The rest was your justification)

I am glad we agree that no matter what Iran says, we both known they are working on nuclear weapons.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
this may have gotten beyond many people, but.....

If and I do mean "IF" Iran were actually capable of attacking Isreals nuclear reactor, muchless its nuclear weapons, the results would be a disaster for the entire middle east.

One, radiation from the reactor would harm much more than Isreali population.....

It would effect Egypt, Jordan, Gaza, westbank, Syria, Saudi Arabia?......

I wonder how these countries would feel twards Iran if that occured???

So why does Israel have these weapons in the first place since using them aggressively will create the same kind of disaster.The only solution is to bomb Israeli nukes considering the nature of the zionist entity.

It must be made clear to Israel that its nukes cannot be used as a deterrent against the reactions to its foriegn policy.

The question is, had an Arab country bombed Israel in the same way that Israel had besieged and bombed Gaza or destroyed the Lebanon, would Israel use nuclear weapons? Would not unleashing these weapons also poison Israel?

So if Iran or any Arab country have weapons to bomb Israel I think striking its nuclear power stations and nuclear weapon stores is the logical move. Israel is a belligerent state constantly provoking wars, constantly assassinating and a destabilising influence in the region. There is no option, Israel must be treated like a rabid dog.

reply to post by masonwatcher


Why is very simple, it maintains the balence of power.

the sourrounding muslium countries have far and away more population with which to wage war.

Isreals counter to the far superior numbers with it's nuclear weapons.

Everyone in the world is also very clear, without it's nuclear weapons all the sourrounding countries would try for one last mass invation to kill every man, woman and child.

"The only solution is to bomb Israeli nukes considering the nature of the zionist entity.
"
So you don't care what will happen to not only the population of Isreal, but all the surrounding muslium countries and terrorties like Egypt, Syria,Jordan,Lebanon...........
(forgive me for saying so, but that seems rather heartess to me)

"The question is, had an Arab country bombed Israel in the same way that Israel had besieged and bombed Gaza or destroyed the Lebanon, would Israel use nuclear weapons? Would not unleashing these weapons also poison Israel?
"

Well, there have been several wars with which 3-5 sourrounding muslium countries have attacked at once, while Isreal has had nuclear weapons,

So we all know that they have not used them and would no use them "willy-nilly"

As usual, Masons rabid anti Isreal intent is clear and unrelated to this post.

reply to post by mrmonsoon

Well, there have been several wars with which 3-5 sourrounding muslium countries have attacked at once, while Isreal has had nuclear weapons,

First of all Arabs are both Muslim and Christians. Zionists over state the Muslimness of Arabs to draw a line between the Arab world and the US for their own purposes.

There has been many wars between Israel and surrounding countries but zionists try to make it seem like they are constantly being attacked. This untrue, the vast majority of wars have been instigated by Israel.

Let's start with the 48 war; Israel sent out death squads to stampede the Palestinians then grabbed land overlapping surrounding countries and declared independence. This conflicted with the British Mandate, agreements across the board and UN resolutions.

67 war; Israel unilaterally and simultaneously attacked its neighbours.

1973 war; Egypt attacked Israel to reclaim its conquered oil rich territory of Sinai.

1982 Lebanon invasion was a wholly Israeli adventure.

2006 attempted Israeli invasion of the Lebanon was about a land grab and Hisbullah defeated the invasion forces.

2008/9 Israel besieged and assaulted Gaza is the most cowardly and lethal fashion.

Interspersed within this list of crimes are numerous other atrocities like Jenin and Sabra and Shatilla. But of course you will get zionists roll out all kinds of excuses and explanations that really does not explain the high death numbers of civilians.

As usual, Masons rabid anti Isreal intent is clear and unrelated to this post.

To quibble or point out the outrageous behaviour of Israel is liable to get you slandered as an antiSemite and/or an Israel hater.



[edit on 103131p://am3148 by masonwatcher]

Israel knows, as soon as Iran gets the bomb, they will have very little leverage over the Palestinians.

And if they ever give the Palestinians a foot in the door, they will ultimately be driven out.

Because, both nations know, the first one to use anything will be devastated. It will create equilibrium.

So anything Iran and Palestine declare, Israel will have to either accept, or attack,

...and vice versa.

Nuclear weapons could solve the crisis, but Israel sure as sugar doesn’t want to give up its regional dominance.

reply to post by Agit8dChop

Israel knows as soon as Iran gets the bomb, they will have very little leverage over the Palestinians. And if they ever give the Palestinians a foot in the door, they will ultimately be driven out. Both nations know the first one to use anything will be devastated. It will create equilibrium. So anything Iran and Palestine declare, Israel will have to either accept, or attack. ..and vice versa. Nuclear weapons could solve the crisis, but Israel sure as sugar doesn’t want to give up its regional dominance.

The Jewish Question. I think I can understand where the Jews are coming from. But that is no excuse to attempt to extinguish the Palestinian Arabs.

If not with Moses or Joshua, then where do you start trying to explain or understand the motivation of the people now living in the State of Israel who call themselves Jews? Named the British Palestine Mandate after World War 1 break-up of the Ottoman Empire, this area is now the State of Israel and the Occupied Territories (West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem). I am ignoring Syria's Golan Heights.

The region around Jerusalem has long been one of turmoil. Jewish rebels led by the Maccabees gained autonomy in the 2nd century BCE and established the Hasmonian dynasty that lasted from 164 BCE to 63 BCE when it was conquered by Rome. The next serious revolt - there were many extended riots that do not quite qualify as revolts - was the 66 CE - 70 CE rebellion known to history as the Jewish Revolt, principally located in Jerusalem and its immediate environs.

Turn-coat Roman historian Flavus Josephus tells of 900 Jewish Zealots* holdouts who committed mass suicide at Masada in 73 CE to avoid capture by the Romans. By the 1960s however, serious doubts arose after only a handful of skeletons were found when the site was first excavated. Then it came to light the famous archeologist Yigael Yadin had "salted" the site with the 10 stones claimed to be the ones used in drawing lots for the last man to die. Thus the very popular Josephus epic was debunked. *One of the 12 apostles of Jesus was a Zealot named Simon. (Luke 6:12-16, RSV) Evidence outside the Holy Bible says the Zealots were a Jewish terrorist group.

The last memorable revolt was the Simon Bar Kokhba Revolt. 132 CE to 136 CE. After early successes, the Jews living in Jerusalem hailed Simon as the TRUE Messiah. The Jews actually issued coins bearing the likeness of Simon on them. Which true story of Bar Kokhba casts grave doubts on the unprovable story of Jesus.

The Jewish Diaspora. It is urged that most of the Jews in Jerusalem were expelled following the 66-70 CE revolt. This is the story told by Josephus. Au contraire. There has never been a time post 70 CE when some Jewish people did not live there. Jews had long lived all around the Mediterranean basin. There were more Jews in Alexandria than lived in Jerusalem. A large Jewish settlement was at Syracuse in Sicily. Both were Greek colonies. The Theory of the Diaspora is a modern day Zionist theme which fits well with right wing Protestant end-times theology.

The Black Death. In the 14th century there were 3 episodes of the Black Death that struck Europe. The first in 1348. Estimates vary but it is suggested that between 30% and 60% of Europe’s population was killed by the plague and its aftermath. This is truly one of those rare events the much overused "changed the world forever" tag does apply.

Many Christians blamed the Plague on the Jews. By the 10s of 1000s Christians killed entire Jewish settlements by such means as filling local wells with live Jews then setting them alight! Of course they always did the “Christian thing” by taking all their gold and other valuables BEFORE they burned them to death!

Spain. In 1492 the kingdoms of Castile (Isabella) and Aragon (Ferdinand) were united into the Kingdom of Spain. (The Moors - Muslims from Morocco) had ruled Iberia from 711 to 1492. Under Muslim rule religious tolerance was practiced. Jews thrived there for 7 centuries, perhaps the longest period in Jewish history outside of old Israel. But in 1478, Pope Sixtus IV commissioned the eager Dominican Tomas Torquemada to begin the Spanish Inquisition. IE, the purification of Spain! AKA Ethnic Cleansing. Jews were given 3 choices: 1) convert to Catholicism; 2) leave the country but taking only what you can carry; and 3) death at the stake!

From the time when the memory of man runneth not to the contrary, both Catholics and Protestants (after 1517) have taught their children that Jews are Christ Killers! It is little wonder to me that Germans, Poles, and others welcomed the opportunity to wreak havoc and revenge on the Jews in Europe for killing Christ! Christianity made the Holocaust possible!

Journalist Theodor Herzl founded the Zionism Movement in the late 19th century. More and more Jewish people sought a place of refuge from their Christian fellow citizens around the world. The 28th Zionist Congress, meeting in Jerusalem 1968, adopted the five points of the "Jerusalem Program" as the aims of Zionism today. They are: 1). The unity of the Jewish People and the centrality of Israel in Jewish life; 2). The ingathering of the Jewish People in its historic homeland, Eretz Israel, through Aliyah from all countries; 3). The strengthening of the State of Israel which is based on the prophetic vision of justice and peace: 4). The preservation of the identity of the Jewish People through the fostering of Jewish and Hebrew education and of Jewish spiritual and cultural values; and 5). The protection of Jewish rights everywhere.

After World War 2 and the revelation of the dastardly deeds the Nazis had heaped upon 6 million people who offended them only by being born Jews, the Christians of the WEST had strong feelings of remorse and regret. Unable to undo this supreme tragedy they yielded to the insistence of pro-Zionists to grant to the surviving Jews of the Holocaust a safe place to live.

Logical as it was, the United Nations overlooked that the place it had chosen for the Jews - Palestine - was already inhabited! In a singular act of hubris In May, 1948, the UN created the State of Israel and awarded about half of the British Palestine Mandate from the old League of Nations to the Jews. Not a surprise, a war broke out! From that unlikely beginning have come three conflicting slogans or claims: 1) Never again; 2) We’ll push you into the Sea; and 3) the Right of Return, added to the FOURTH, the historic farewell bid of Jews, "Next Year In Jerusalem!"

The first war of 1948-49 ended in an Armistice. It is still in effect. The next war in 1956, ended in a stalemate or status quo ante. It was fought over Egypt’s seizure of the Suez Canal to pay for the Aswan High Dam which the US had first promised to build then reneged on. Thanks to Eisenhower.

The third war was the famous well studied Six Day War of 1967. Jewish intelligence indicated the Arabs were plotting a joint strike on Israel from Egypt and Syria. The near perfect execution of the war plans by Moshe Dyan, the one-eyed general, surprised everyone including the Israelis. Still not understood by me was the intentional attack on the USS Liberty by the IDF air arm and patrol boats. 34 crew were killed, 171 wounded. The attack went on for 4 hours, but within an hour after it ended, the Israeli PM called Johnson to say it was “all a mistake.”

The Yom Kippur War, 1973, War No. 4, was launched by Egypt to regain the Sinai. Although ultimately repulsed, the two sides agreed to a cease fire and in 1978, a peace treaty between Egypt and Israel was entered into returning the Sinai to Egypt. It holds to this day. The US played a significant role, and agreed to pay each side $3 b. a year, “to keep the peace,” which continues to this day. American peacekeepers suffered a tragic loss of men on their 1985 Christmas homecoming, when a private contractor chartered plane crashed in Newfoundland killing all 256 persons on board. The Canadian government determined the plane crashed because the air crew did not want to pay for the SECOND deicing of the plane's snow covered wings before takeoff. About $10,000.

The 5th, 6th and 7th wars. The 1982 invasion of Lebanon is still an irritant to the people of south Lebanon. The 2006 repeat Invasion of Lebanon by the IDF (supported by the US) showed the limits of an army facing an insurgency. I have called it a RAMPAGE! This same lesson was repeated in 2009 when a similar IDF wanton destructive excursion into Gaza failed to establish the primacy of Israel.

Ethnic cleansing. DELAY is the tactic used by Israel. TALK peace as you SETTLE more people. It is impossible to deny the 300,000 (illegal) settlers in the West Bank and the 120,000 (illegal) settlers in East Jerusalem are not in those places for ONE purpose and ONE purpose only. To DRIVE OUT the Arabs who remain from the 1967 War. When that is done, and the last Arab leaves, Israel will declare PEACE. And NOT before. Unless the US forces Israel to do otherwise.


[edit on 8/2/2009 by donwhite]