reply to post by Agit8dChop
Israel knows as soon as Iran gets the bomb, they will have very little leverage over the Palestinians. And if they ever give the Palestinians a
foot in the door, they will ultimately be driven out. Both nations know the first one to use anything will be devastated. It will create equilibrium.
So anything Iran and Palestine declare, Israel will have to either accept, or attack. ..and vice versa. Nuclear weapons could solve the crisis, but
Israel sure as sugar doesn’t want to give up its regional dominance.
The Jewish Question.
I think I can understand where the Jews are coming from. But that is no excuse to attempt to extinguish the Palestinian
If not with Moses or Joshua
, then where do you start trying to explain or understand the motivation of the people now living in the State of
Israel who call themselves Jews? Named the British Palestine Mandate after World War 1 break-up of the Ottoman Empire, this area is now the State of
Israel and the Occupied Territories (West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem). I am ignoring Syria's Golan Heights.
The region around Jerusalem
has long been one of turmoil. Jewish rebels led by the Maccabees gained autonomy in the 2nd century BCE and
established the Hasmonian dynasty that lasted from 164 BCE to 63 BCE when it was conquered by Rome. The next serious revolt - there were many extended
riots that do not quite qualify as revolts - was the 66 CE - 70 CE rebellion known to history as the Jewish Revolt, principally located in Jerusalem
and its immediate environs.
Turn-coat Roman historian Flavus Josephus
tells of 900 Jewish Zealots* holdouts who committed mass suicide at Masada in 73 CE to avoid capture by
the Romans. By the 1960s however, serious doubts arose after only a handful of skeletons were found when the site was first excavated. Then it came to
light the famous archeologist Yigael Yadin had "salted" the site with the 10 stones claimed to be the ones used in drawing lots for the last man to
die. Thus the very popular Josephus epic was debunked. *One of the 12 apostles of Jesus was a Zealot named Simon. (Luke 6:12-16, RSV) Evidence outside
the Holy Bible says the Zealots were a Jewish terrorist group.
The last memorable revolt was the Simon Bar Kokhba Revolt
. 132 CE to 136 CE. After early successes, the Jews living in Jerusalem hailed Simon
as the TRUE Messiah. The Jews actually issued coins bearing the likeness of Simon on them. Which true story of Bar Kokhba casts grave doubts on the
unprovable story of Jesus.
The Jewish Diaspora.
It is urged that most of the Jews in Jerusalem were expelled following the 66-70 CE revolt. This is the story told by
Josephus. Au contraire. There has never been a time post 70 CE when some Jewish people did not live there. Jews had long lived all around the
Mediterranean basin. There were more Jews in Alexandria than lived in Jerusalem. A large Jewish settlement was at Syracuse in Sicily. Both were Greek
colonies. The Theory of the Diaspora is a modern day Zionist theme which fits well with right wing Protestant end-times theology.
The Black Death.
In the 14th century there were 3 episodes of the Black Death that struck Europe. The first in 1348. Estimates vary but it is
suggested that between 30% and 60% of Europe’s population was killed by the plague and its aftermath. This is truly one of those rare events the
much overused "changed the world forever" tag does apply.
Many Christians blamed the Plague on the Jews
. By the 10s of 1000s Christians killed entire Jewish settlements by such means as filling local
wells with live Jews then setting them alight! Of course they always did the “Christian thing” by taking all their gold and other valuables BEFORE
they burned them to death!
Spain. In 1492
the kingdoms of Castile (Isabella) and Aragon (Ferdinand) were united into the Kingdom of Spain. (The Moors - Muslims from Morocco)
had ruled Iberia from 711 to 1492. Under Muslim rule religious tolerance was practiced. Jews thrived there for 7 centuries, perhaps the longest period
in Jewish history outside of old Israel. But in 1478, Pope Sixtus IV commissioned the eager Dominican Tomas Torquemada to begin the Spanish
Inquisition. IE, the purification
of Spain! AKA Ethnic Cleansing. Jews were given 3 choices: 1) convert to Catholicism; 2) leave the country
but taking only what you can carry; and 3) death at the stake!
From the time when the memory of man runneth not to the contrary, both Catholics and Protestants
(after 1517) have taught their children that
Jews are Christ Killers!
It is little wonder to me that Germans, Poles, and others welcomed the opportunity to wreak havoc and revenge on the
Jews in Europe for killing Christ! Christianity made the Holocaust possible!
Journalist Theodor Herzl founded the Zionism Movement
in the late 19th century. More and more Jewish people sought a place of refuge from their
Christian fellow citizens around the world. The 28th Zionist Congress, meeting in Jerusalem 1968, adopted the five points of the "Jerusalem Program"
as the aims of Zionism today. They are: 1). The unity of the Jewish People and the centrality of Israel in Jewish life; 2). The ingathering of the
Jewish People in its historic homeland, Eretz Israel, through Aliyah from all countries; 3). The strengthening of the State of Israel which is based
on the prophetic vision of justice and peace: 4). The preservation of the identity of the Jewish People through the fostering of Jewish and Hebrew
education and of Jewish spiritual and cultural values; and 5). The protection of Jewish rights everywhere.
After World War 2
and the revelation of the dastardly deeds the Nazis had heaped upon 6 million people who offended them only by being born Jews,
the Christians of the WEST had strong feelings of remorse and regret. Unable to undo this supreme tragedy they yielded to the insistence of
pro-Zionists to grant to the surviving Jews of the Holocaust a safe place to live.
Logical as it was, the United Nations
overlooked that the place it had chosen for the Jews - Palestine - was already inhabited! In a singular act
of hubris In May, 1948, the UN created the State of Israel and awarded about half of the British Palestine Mandate from the old League of Nations to
the Jews. Not a surprise, a war broke out! From that unlikely beginning have come three conflicting slogans or claims: 1) Never again; 2) We’ll push
you into the Sea; and 3) the Right of Return, added to the FOURTH, the historic farewell bid of Jews, "Next Year In Jerusalem!"
The first war of 1948-49
ended in an Armistice. It is still in effect. The next war in 1956, ended in a stalemate or status quo ante. It was
fought over Egypt’s seizure of the Suez Canal to pay for the Aswan High Dam which the US had first promised to build then reneged on. Thanks to
The third war was the famous well studied Six Day War of 1967
. Jewish intelligence indicated the Arabs were plotting a joint strike on Israel
from Egypt and Syria. The near perfect execution of the war plans by Moshe Dyan, the one-eyed general, surprised everyone including the Israelis.
Still not understood by me was the intentional attack on the USS Liberty by the IDF air arm and patrol boats. 34 crew were killed, 171 wounded. The
attack went on for 4 hours, but within an hour after it ended, the Israeli PM called Johnson to say it was “all a mistake.”
The Yom Kippur War
, 1973, War No. 4, was launched by Egypt to regain the Sinai. Although ultimately repulsed, the two sides agreed to a cease fire
and in 1978, a peace treaty between Egypt and Israel was entered into returning the Sinai to Egypt. It holds to this day. The US played a significant
role, and agreed to pay each side $3 b. a year, “to keep the peace,” which continues to this day. American peacekeepers suffered a tragic loss of
men on their 1985 Christmas homecoming, when a private contractor chartered plane crashed in Newfoundland killing all 256 persons on board. The
Canadian government determined the plane crashed because the air crew did not want to pay for the SECOND deicing of the plane's snow covered wings
before takeoff. About $10,000.
The 5th, 6th and 7th wars.
The 1982 invasion of Lebanon is still an irritant to the people of south Lebanon. The 2006 repeat Invasion of Lebanon
by the IDF (supported by the US) showed the limits of an army facing an insurgency. I have called it a RAMPAGE! This same lesson was repeated in 2009
when a similar IDF wanton destructive excursion into Gaza failed to establish the primacy of Israel.
DELAY is the tactic used by Israel. TALK peace as you SETTLE more people. It is impossible to deny the 300,000 (illegal)
settlers in the West Bank and the 120,000 (illegal) settlers in East Jerusalem are not in those places for ONE purpose and ONE purpose only. To DRIVE
OUT the Arabs who remain from the 1967 War. When that is done, and the last Arab leaves, Israel will declare PEACE. And NOT before. Unless the US
forces Israel to do otherwise.
[edit on 8/2/2009 by donwhite]