We ALREADY have health care & health insurance in America

What is going on with this ''health care'' issue?

We already have health care and health insurance in America.
What do you think we are a bunch of dimwits with a box of band-aids?

We have the best health care. You can get patched up and you're on your way. They send you a bill and you pay for it or work out a payment plan. What more do you want?

You can purchase a health insurance policy just like auto damage insurance, drivers liability insurance, homeowners insurance, renters insurance, flood insurance, life insurance, some crazy I'm going to go play with a tiger insurance. You can insure ANYTHING even your hands if you're a doctor or your sweet patootie if your a model.

You know what the real problem is? It is all the stuff that people buy instead of buying health insurance.

They buy the nicest cell phone every six months.
They buy the most expensive unlimited text and data plan each month.
They buy the finest cars and boats and recreational vehicles.
They buy $100 bag of weed every week and then ''awww mayne I cain't pay da bills yo!''
They buy video games systems and new games each month.

It is PATHETIC.

The best answer is to keep health insurance on the market like all other insurance policies.
If you don't have it, you pay for whatever you can afford when you visit the doctor.
If you can't pay then die.
That will help the unemployment numbers and the over population problem.
Do you think the world owes you something?
Do you just want to sit on the couch and get drunk and high and play video games and then get a free ride on somebody who is working?

This is unbelievable how the Left has brainwashed people into being mindless sponges.

reply to post by THX-1138

Let's not forget about medicaid and medicare which are specifically targeted to the poor & elderly.

Why do we need another failed government program? Answer: We don't! This is just another government power control grab. Or if you really want a conspiracy, the reason is to purposefully put a coffin nail into America.



[edit on 7/23/2009 by WhatTheory]

reply to post by THX-1138

I would say we already have cheap, and even free government health care at that...it's called the county clinic!!!

I understand your point, and it goes a lot deeper than health care. How many people have you seen on welfare, food stamps, or put their children on a free lunch program because they are poor...meanwhile they have a big tv with cable, a fancy car with new rims, and new $100 air jordan shoes...

I'm not saying poor people shouldn't have nice things, it's just that people need to prioritize, and realize they can make their lives better through job training and education, thus finding a better paying job, etc.


[edit on 7/23/2009 by AnonymousMoose]

well, let's see....
a "poor" person breaks their ankle, and well, they go to the hospital emergency room, they get sent to a specialist, who then schedules an operation, the person goes into the hospital, the operation takes place, and they go home, with very little expense incurred....

now, if the person is decided not to be "poor", and has no insurance, well, that specialist might decide they want a few thousand dollars down before the surgery, and well...what happens if the person doesn't have a few thousand laying around to give him?? what if they don't have the connections in state government like I did and no one comes to their rescue??

let's take another example...
a "poor" person finds a lump in the stomach area, goes to the doctor, the doctor orders a bunch of tests...and well, the person goes gets all the tests done, and hopefully the problem is found....
the insured not so "poor" person finds the lump, goes to the doctor, who orders the tests...and well, the bills start coming in before all the schedule tests are run, and freaks out...decides to wait, pay off those bills before creating more....nine months later.... (that is close to paying a hundred dollars a month on the bills), well, it's finally paid off!! to top it off, in order to avoid the bill going to a collection agency, one must pay it anyway they can (credit card!!) before thirty days!!

the not so poor person is paying taxes, if they live in ny state, they have listened to the polywogs up there telling them year after year how they have to raise this tax or fee or that tax or fee.....to come up with the resources to pay the ever growing medicaid, medicare, employee healthcare.....
only they can't get their healthcare needs met, even with insurance, without facing bill collectors with their irratating phone calls or bankruptcy....

so, my question for you is this....

why is it so acceptable to you for the poor to be provided a standard of living that is so much better than some of those who are paying the tab???

I know for a fact.....the healthcare system in this country, along with those gov't programs to help the "poor" have not, and do not reach out to all that need the help, heck, I've even wondered if they have somehow managed to rig the economy so that those who are working in certain occupations that are known to be a little hazardous to their health are intentionally been left out of the loop!
another group who seems to have been left out of the loop are those married moms out there who have chosen to be stay at home moms!! hey if they would just go to work, find an employer who will offer insurance as a benefit, well, there's a better chance of them being insured!! having your healthcare revolving around your employer like it does....seems to be more of an incentive for those mothers to be out working, when here we hear from the far right (the ones opposing any type of healthcare reform the most!!), that all the moms in the country should be home, tending the kids....
what do they have against women having health insurance?? and well, what if the mom CAN'T WORK?? ya think maybe it just might provide her an incentive to just make herself a tad bit "poorer" and then she can have the healthcare, the cellphone, and well, a whole lot of stuff they can't afford now?

no, we need healthcare reform!! it's gotten too costly for gov'ts, for businesses who want to provide insurance for their employees, for the people! The current system is really unjust, and will become more and more unjust as more and more taxpayers find the care out of their reach financially, and yet, will still be seeing their taxes being raised.....with healthcare costs to the government being the excuse being used!

I just have the feeling that obama's plan will be doing more to increase the injustice than it will be helping...expanding what we have now, which is what I am reading into what is being said about what they want to do, isn't the reform that is needed!! reducing the costs....even if it means we might have to live without some of the new research and developement and state of the art crap, well, that would help....
if this nation truly holds freedom up as high as they make it out they do, well, independence must be maintained....that means the person, not the government, not some big insurance company, pays the bills!

Star and Flag to the OP.
We don't need health care reform. What we need is tort reform, and insurance reform.
For those of you who don't know how insurance and medicare scams work, let me lay it out for you
You go to the hospital to have an MRI. You have major medical, $500 deductable, 80/20 coverage. When you get the bill, you see that the MRI costs $5000, the insurance paid it's part, which is not $4000. It's more like $1500, and you may owe as your co-pay. Why? Because you have insurance, and the insurance companies agree to pay a set price for x-rays, labs, physical therapy, etc. and that price is a percentage of the hospital charges. Medicare does the same, and as goes medicare, so go the insurance companies. Hospitals, in order to meet payroll, have to jack up the price for the exams, in order to get what the test actually cost.
Are you with me so far?
Now, you go in with no insurance, have the same MRI, and what do you get billed for? $5000, bless your heart now. Why? Because that's what the hospital has to charge the uninsured.
Don't blame the hospitals. Blame the the government and the insurance companies for setting such rediculous polices.
Tort reform speaks for itself. There are way too many ambulance chasers out there now. If we had tort reform, maybe they would learn to do something useful. Or else they would just starve to death, thus leaving the earth a much better place.

Originally posted by dawnstar

so, my question for you is this....

why is it so acceptable to you for the poor to be provided a standard of living that is so much better than some of those who are paying the tab???

Two words: misplaced guilt

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

reply to post by THX-1138


I am a 30 year old female without insurance. I have looked into many different policies and it's about 300 a month which I cant afford. Also I DO NOT qualify for medicade or medicare. Also do you know how hard it is to go to a doctor without insurance and the extra FEES they charge and many wont do payments? I have also had doctors refuse to see me because I dont have insurance so before you make these statements you might want to look around or even talk to those without it and see why they dont have it before you make these false statements. You say people without it buy things they dont need, well I dont and I never have. If I do go to the doctor I pay cash which always costs me more and I usually get crappy service because I dont have insurance. Believe me I can tell you many stories about many people I know who are in the same situation as myself.
Also what makes people with insurance more deserving of living? You said if you cant pay then die. That is really harsh and completely inappropriate. I have every right to be happy AND healthy just as much as the next person who happens to have insurance. Doctors IMO shouldnt be allowed to charge 200 bucks for a 5 mins visit when all they do is check my vital signs and write me a script which I never take unless I absolutely have to. I have had insurance but was laid off and now I am stuck paying double for everything now and it is really hard but I too deserve to be healthy.

reply to post by THX-1138

Do you just want to sit on the couch and get drunk and high and play video games and then get a free ride on somebody who is working

This is a very bad sterotype of people without insurance or the poor as you seem to say. NOT everyone is sitting around lounging getting high and playing video games. Just because one is poor doesnt mean they are less of a person. I would be considered poor and I work my ass off and I dont have insurance.

reply to post by mblahnikluver


but, more than likely, you pay taxes, and some of that taxmoney is going to pay for those lazy couch potatoes healthcare.....

and as far as the cellphones, and whatever else was on that long list of things that people are buying instead of their healthcare....
well, those poor people who are getting their healthcare compliments of the taxpayer, seem to have cellphones also, they have cars, some nicer than what I am driving, they have suitable housing, are able to heat their homes in the winter (and even open their windows wide open in the middle of winter "to air the place out"..)

like I said, why should the taxpayer's money be going to provide a better standard of living to the poor than the taxpayer is enjoying themselves...if we can't afford the healthcare system, well, we have no business footing the bill for someone else...and the gov't doesn't have any taking o ur money to do it!

Originally posted by WhatTheory
Let's not forget about medicaid and medicare which are specifically targeted to the poor & elderly.

Yes, and thousands still don't qualify for either.

Originally posted by THX-1138

If you can't pay then die.
That will help the unemployment numbers and the over population problem.

Wow, seriously man, that is quite a harsh way of looking at things.

I am a 29 year old male, and I am uninsured. I am a senior in University finishing my Computer Science degree, and am entering the university's masters program very soon. I have looked for health care, but when I applied and took their tests, it turns out I am ineligible for their insurance. It turns out my liver numbers are a little bit high, because I used to take Hydroxycut, which has recently been found to cause liver damage.

So, as a result of keeping in shape, exercising regularly, and pursuing advanced degrees in computers which excludes me from working full time, I am now being labeled as "getting drunk and high and playing video games."

If you have health insurance, then consider yourself lucky that you have it. There are many of us that are working towards greater things, and have simply fallen through the crack of being insured.

On another note, remember that people that cannot afford health insurance are often the ones that are doing the jobs that you depend on on a daily basis. If those people died, are you willing to do the labor intensive jobs that are no longer done due to lack of workforce at that level?

Are you going to work those so called dirty jobs?

I highly doubt it.

Many people that do not have health insurance are NOT demons, or lazy, or drug addicts. They have simply fallen through the cracks. I have had to pay for my own health care and doctor visits to track my liver and luckily everything is returning to normal now that I have stopped using hydroxycut. Soon I should be able to get health insurance.

This is just one of countless examples of how the health insurance policies of the United States fails many that are working diligently towards bettering themselves.

And no, I don't do drugs and play video games all day.

Let's see.

50million Americans without healthcare(and this number has been disputed). That means at least 250 million Americans are insured.

This 1 trillion dollars plus is to help cover the 50 million. The other 250 million only have politician promises that this 1 trillion plus will reduce health care costs and premiums. And we all know what politicians promises are worth.

The 250 million will end up picking up the tab because government tells us that the 50 million uninsured can't afford to buy insurance.

I ask,

Is this plan for all Americans or only the 50 million without insurance?

Originally posted by PieKeeper

Originally posted by WhatTheory
Let's not forget about medicaid and medicare which are specifically targeted to the poor & elderly.

Yes, and thousands still don't qualify for either.

Great, thousands is much, much better than the 46 million Obama wrongly keeps quoting. Guess there really is no need to rush through this garbage of a bill. This probably brings it OUT of crisis mode.

reply to post by WhatTheory


I'm not sure on the specific number. I'm speaking of the area that I live in. I didn't clarify that, but there's no reason to skew it and turn it into a joke.

I personally don't find poverty and substandard living very funny. At least they are trying to give these people help. That's a lot more than what's been done in the past.

reply to post by WhatTheory


personally, I would prefer that they take their time, and well, look a little deeper than the first level of the problem. for every action our government takes, there are multiple reactions that occur through the economy, as well as society. maybe it isn't so much that they have to do something to fix the mess as it is they got to stop doing, or change how they are doing what they are currently doing? heck, if they looked deep enough, they might actually find....
that their actions are what is causing the problems to begin with?


[edit on 24-7-2009 by dawnstar]

Originally posted by PieKeeper
I'm not sure on the specific number.

Why am I not suprised? So you admitted that in your previous post you are just spewing made up numbers in a attempt to help your lame or incorrect point. Why should I believe anything else you say?

reply to post by WhatTheory


In relation to the area that I live in, the number is accurate. I said I was speaking about the area I live in.

Do you know the exact number of people who don't have health care?

How blind. This heathcare reform initiative is not primarily about providing healthcare for lazy, good-for-nothing, over-consuming stoners as the OP seems to think. It is primarily intended to reduce the staggering amount of waste and inefficiencies in the system to stop runaway healthcare costs for the country. For everyone. The cost of delivering healthcare in this country is climbing geometrically and it is unsustainable. Period.

I have worked in the healthcare industry. My brother is a physician. If the situation wasn't so serious it would be funny. It's like a business run by the Three Stooges.

My wife and I have to pay for our own healthcare (I'm self-employed and her employer does not offer healthcare benefits) to the tune of $785/mo. A couple years ago I had a serious, undiagnosed health issue. In an attempt to figure out what was going on, I saw a total of four doctors as I was referred from one to the next. All four ordered the same tests within days of each other. 3 unnecessary lab fees, 3 unnecessary phlebotamist fees, 3 unnecessary SETS of lab tests plus my having to go to the lab 3 extra times. And this has happened a number of times. Oh, and they never figured out what was wrong and NO ONE ever followed up with me to see if I was still alive.

We have the POTENTIAL of having the world's best healthcare in this country but, depsite what the OP seems to think, we most certainly do not. It costs much more and produces inferior results. Yes, tort reform is necessary. Malpractice insurance is forcing some doctors out of certain specialities especially in rural and low-income areas. Some hospitals are finding it difficult to find ER coverage because doctors cannot afford the increase in their malpractice insurance associated with emergency medicine. Some areas cannot find obstetricians because the malpractice rates outstrip the potential income in those (especially rural) areas where doctors act as both primary physician and obstetrician. I'm in my late 50's. Both my brothers and I were delivered by our family doctor. Malpractice has made that kind of medicine impossible and consequently the delivery of the same kind of medical care that I had as a kid (lets not even talk about house calls --- that's a fantasy now) is now many, many times more expensive.

Health care costs in this country are spiraling out-of-control. That is a FACT. The fear is that there is absolutely nothing that is going to slow that trend down. As a result, these increasing costs are going to mean fewer employers offering medical benefits and those that do will be offering less and less. Fewer people will be able to afford adequate healthcare and will end up with more serious (and therefore more expensive) health issues.

So the thinking is we either fix it now or simply go back to the previous administration's playbook and use the one they employed as the financial markets spiralled out-of-control: just ignore it until there is a complete meltdown and then be forced to throw hundreds of billions of dollars at it while the majority of the country goes without any healthcare.

Originally posted by jtma508
It is primarily intended to reduce the staggering amount of waste and inefficiencies in the system to stop runaway healthcare costs for the country.

Are you serious?
Do you mean government healthcare will be efficient and have practically no waste which will curb costs just like medicare, medicaid, welfare and the USPS?

Come on, you cannot be serious. Anything the government touches turns to crap regardless of the initial intentions. Get a grip on reality. Medicare and Medicaid is what is mainly driving up healthcare costs.

Why would this be government plan be any different? Have you actually read the plan? Take a look here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

We have the POTENTIAL of having the world's best healthcare in this country

Umm....we already have the best healthcare in the world. Obama's plan will change that. All we have to do now is just tweak the current system a little and NOT reinvent the wheel with Obama care.

[edit on 7/24/2009 by WhatTheory]