Questions on ET, SETI and NASA

Question One

Most people here are familiar with the thousands of UFO sightings that are reported annually.

If these were all ET craft then it follows that local space would be TEEMING with Alien Spacecraft flitting about through our Solar System...

Well then WHY is SETI not focusing their equipment on our solar system to pick up local chatter like "ship to ship" communications or chatter between ship and ground crews

Question Two

In 1969 US Government/NASA issued a law... few are aware of it...

On 16 July 1969, a United States law was passed called the "Extra-Terrestrial Exposure Law" that made it illegal for the public to come in contact with extra-terrestrials or their vehicles. (Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations). Anyone found guilty of such contact could face up to one year imprisonment as well as a fine of $5000. Also, any individual who had been "exposed" could be quarantined under armed guard by the NASA administrator without a hearing.

Its in ATS files... though has little attention
www.abovetopsecret.com...

On April 26, 1991 NASA says...

"NASA is removing 14 CFR part 1211 since it has served its purpose and is no longer in keeping with current policy"

DOCUMENT

My question is...

What exactly IS NASA's 'current policy' on "people coming in contact with extra-terrestrials or their vehicles."

And where is it written?

Question Three

We all know there would be fortunes made by bring STUFF back from space, whether it be HE3, old space junk or alien artifacts...

You and I, were we to bring anything into the country from a foreign land have horrendous laws and customs regulations to deal with as any international traveler well knows...

Now while reading more about NASA policy I came across this...

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 14, Volume 5, Parts 1200 to end]
[Revised as of January 1, 2001]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 14CFR1217.106]

[Page 167]

TITLE 14--AERONAUTICS AND SPACE

SPACE ADMINISTRATION

PART 1217--DUTY-FREE ENTRY OF SPACE ARTICLES--Table of Contents

Sec. 1217.106 Articles brought into the United States by NASA from space.

Pursuant to U.S. note 1 subchapter VIII of chapter 98, HTSUS,
articles brought into the customs territory of the United States by NASA
from space shall not be considered an importation, and no certification
or entry of such materials through U.S. Customs shall be required. This
provision is applicable to articles brought to the U.S. from space
whether or not the articles were launched into space aboard a NASA
vehicle.

www.access.gpo.gov...

So NASA has carte blanche to pillage the solar system and beyond and never a cent of duty to be paid. I wonder if other Nations have that ability?

Does anyone else have a problem with this?

There may be more 'goodies' in here... I haven't had time to look at it all, especially the release of information section

www.access.gpo.gov...












[edit on 18-7-2009 by zorgon]

Okay this is not fair, i have limited time today to go over and post individual answers, so i will do so at a later time.


Looking forward to a heated thread..

Question Four


Going to add one more... mainly because I need help tracking this down... but this is merely an addendum.

A portion of an email I received from an 'insider'. The question is not about the content or source, but merely on one point he made that I need to verify...

"On the mining-thing. I can only state that in the broadest of senses mining operations have taken place on the lunar surface and are presently being conducted on Mars (and continue on the Moon). Although the use of terminology, 'mining' has been downplayed (by NASA) and there exists an 'internal memo' ,....."

snipped details not relevant to the question

"Use of terminology, e.g., 'mining', could be considered (by some countries) to constitute a violation of the International Space Treaty. Thus, NASA is real-careful about use of terminology that could be considered a breach of 'Policy and Protocol'. I can give you this stuff as it's 'public information'. You have to look between the spaces/lines for more info and draw your own conclusions."

My question is...

Does anyone know where to find NASA policy in detail and can we find the reference to the word "mining" in any of it...

I find it more relevant now in light of the ruling NASA can import anything they want. Have they created this custom issue to circumnavigate international treaty on off world mining, supposedly covered in their own policy?

I need to know...

Originally posted by zorgon

Does anyone know where to find NASA policy in detail and can we find the reference to the word "mining" in any of it...

I'm on it Zorgon.

I'll dig up what I can. I bet some it it won't remain online after it gets posted here though....

Edit: The terms "Lunar Regolith Extraction" are often used instead of mining. NASA even holds contests to see who can come up with the best "Lunar Regolith Extraction' methods and technologies.

[edit on 18-7-2009 by Exuberant1]

Good finds!

As far as Question 2:

I wasn't aware of the 1969 law until the other thread. I'm glad to hear that it was repealed as it was a rather silly law. I understand the purpose of it was a matter of biological containment to protect against contagion, and it wouldn't surprise me if the C.D.C. has their own protocols for dealing with biological containment after physical contact with extraterrestrial organisms. However, since no one in the U.S. outside of N.A.S.A. has flown into space (and a few individuals who have gone up with Russian space flights and had to spend 3 weeks in biological decontamination and containment upon their return according to Russian law) then it really never did pertain. Despite our lofty dreams of having daily flights into space and reaching the stars by 1999, this never did come about as we had hoped. Until civilians start making it to space it is a non-issue that really doesn't need a law on the books for it.

As far as Question 3:

N.A.S.A., being a government agency within the United States, would understandably be duty-free in concerns with U.S. Customs. Generally, you don't need the Left-hand paying the Right-hand for what it does. The U.S. government has given N.A.S.A. a Charter in the public interest, and one of the perks of their charter is that they are exempted from certain government fees.

It's the same with Power & Telco Corporations on the State level.

Really no news there.

HOWEVER, this does bring up a very interesting point and sets a precedence. Although N.A.S.A. is exempt from U.S. Customs, that means any private or public Corporation, or private individual would not be exempt from U.S. Customs when bringing back something from space. Likewise, I'm sure other nations have their own Customs laws that would pertain to space in regards to those Corporations and individuals that return from space to their nation.

The primary motivating force that will get humans out and about amongst the Space and the Stars is the promise of wealth. The plundering of non-renewable resources from other planets and planetoids for use in commerce is the only reason Corporations will consider spending billions on developing civilian technologies for space travel. 14CFR1217.106 is allowing the governments to take a piece of the pie and restrict what they are bringing back to earth via Customs laws. I fear that 14CFR1217.106 will actually deter Corporate greed from spending resources on the exploration and development of space, keeping it in the purvey of government agencies, rather than allowing civilians free access as well.

I reminds me of Aliens 2 when the Weyland-Yutani Corporation wants to smuggle an alien back to earth and is doing so by trying to infect one of the military with a specimen so they can get them past quarantine and Customs.

Well, thankfully we still have the X-Prize and similar organizations that have helped bring civilians closer to space than we have ever been since the exploration of space began.

So NASA has carte blanche to pillage the solar system and beyond and never a cent of duty to be paid. I wonder if other Nations have that ability?

So our government should pay duty to our government? Aside from the problems involved with valuation it doesn't make much sense to do so.

It's actually a plan to avoid paying duty on goods from on Earth. All you have to do is buy a high valued item anywhere on the planet, launch it into space, and recover it. Viola! No duty owed!

reply to post by Phage


Oh I thought NASA was a 'public' entity... my bad...

But your second part... that would be cool if it applied to 'the people' or at least commercial ventures. Wouldn't work so good if I launched a 'package' from Russia and NASA snagged it with the shuttle

reply to post by zorgon

Oh I thought NASA was a 'public' entity... my bad...

It is.

Public entity - A county, city, district, local public body, state board, state commission, federal agency, or joint powers authority.

www.ols.dgs.ca.gov...

[edit on 7/18/2009 by Phage]

reply to post by zorgon


Well if they are not supposed to use the word "mine", "mined", or "mining" then the have slipped up at least once.


"Excavation and extraction" is carefully used in most of their Lunar objectives, it is a long list and I have not read it all but I did find this:

Establish one or more alternative energy sources
for Earth based on lunar resouces. Potential
energy sources include Helium-3 mining for use in
fusion reactors on Earth and supplying materials
and components for assembly and operation of
space solar power satellites in cis-lunar space and
beamed power from the lunar surface.

(Underlined for clarity)

Lunar Exploration Objectives

reply to post by jkrog08


yes quite so... and LPI has thousands of documents on mining. So I want to find out when this policy changed, if indeed it was ever written down anywhere. This dates back to 35 years ago when the Hague assigned mineral rights and the UN made resolutions on the use of space, and who could own what...

I find it hilarious that on the front page of the US NAVY Clementine Browser website they state this in BOLD

Disclaimer

The Naval Research Laboratory is not affiliated in any way with any organization selling lunar property or acreage on the moon. NRL has no involvement, either officially or unofficially, in providing "after-sales service" for the purchase of lunar property from the Lunar Embassy, its franchisees, or any similar organizations. Disputes arising from the purchase of lunar property from such organizations must be resolved with the seller directly.

www.cmf.nrl.navy.mil...

Okay so exactly WHO IS authorized to sell property on the Moon

I especially like the part that says...

"...providing "after-sales service" for the purchase of lunar property "

So I guess the NAVY space program has been flooded with requests to 'protect' off world properties



[edit on 18-7-2009 by zorgon]

reply to post by jkrog08

The treaty really doesn't address the exploitation of resources. What it does say is:

The exploration and use of outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, shall be carried out for the benefit and in the interests of all countries, irrespective of their degree of economic or scientific development, and shall be the province of all mankind.

Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, shall be free for exploration and use by all States without discrimination of any kind, on a basis of equality and in accordance with international law, and there shall be free access to all areas of celestial bodies.

www.fas.org...

It doesn't really say you can't do it. It seems to say that no one can be prevented from doing it. Sort of. It looks like it was written in such a way to keep lawyers working.

Who Owns the Mineral Rights on the Moon?

However, a loophole in Space Law allows individuals and companies to hold Mineral Rights on the Moon, Mars and other celestial bodies. Growing concern from Scientists that these rights may be held hostage have been alleviated by a three man North American team; Dr. Joseph Resnick, Dr. Timothy R. O'Neill and Guy Cramer (ROC-Resnick/O'Neill/Cramer team) who have acquired the mineral rights for 95% of the side of the moon that faces Earth, the polar regions and 50% of the far side of the moon.

SOURCE

Dr. Resnick (former NASA scientist and current consultant to NASA) states "Space law does not allow countries to have land ownership on planets and moons in the solar system but it does allow for the Mineral Rights to be obtained by individuals and companies. The countries party to the Space Treat Act have agreed that none of them has either jurisdiction nor ownership of any extraterrestrial body, nor samples."

Dr. Resnick found the loophole in Space Law 25 years ago that allowed him ownership of all planetary bodies outside the "Third Planet from the Sun"... submitted this to the World Court at the Hague, and to the United Nations in New York City. In 25+ years no one has ever disputed Dr. Resnick's claimed ownership.

SOURCE




[edit on 18-7-2009 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon

Okay so exactly WHO IS authorized to sell property on the Moon

I especially like the part that says...

"...providing "after-sales service" for the purchase of lunar property "

So I guess the NAVY space program has been flooded with requests to 'protect' off world properties

Probably as a result of these guys:

www.lunarproperties.com...
www.moonestates.com...
www.lunarregistry.com...

I bet they have some real nice land in Florida to offer too. Maybe even the Brooklyn Bridge.

reply to post by zorgon

Guy Cramer seems to have some odd notions, his ownership of the "mineral rights" may be one of them.
www.direct.ca...

Aha! I found where he got the rights! Buy now!
www.umlr.us...

Universal Mineral Leases Registry.Com was created by Dr. Joseph A. Resnick

Funny, the name seems familiar.

[edit on 7/18/2009 by Phage]

Missing some of his points Phage. Why is it(was) illegal to come into contact with EBE's or their craft? Hmmmm?

I think it all boils down to the fact, disclosure is coming soon, specifically within the next 2 years, and I'm willing to put well, food gas/oil and shelter on it because the dollar is going to become obsolete real fast.

Anyways, carry on

[edit on 18-7-2009 by Revolution-2012]

Originally posted by Phage
I bet they have some real nice land in Florida to offer too. Maybe even the Brooklyn Bridge.

So how come no one has sued them for false land claims yet? I have been trying to pick up Aristarchus Crater with no luck so far

Originally posted by Revolution-2012
Missing some of his points Phage. Why is it(was) illegal to come into contact with EBE's or their craft? Hmmmm?

The law was passed originally to protect Earth from possible biological contamination resulting from the US Apollo Space Program and other space exploration programs. It has been suggested by researchers and scientists that the U.S. government was very concerned that contact with extra-terrestrial bacteria could result in a worldwide plague. The immune system of human beings wouldn't be able to fight off extra-terrestrial bacteria, so therefore any kind of "extra-terrestrial exposure" was taken very seriously.

Hence the quarantine of the returning Apollo 11 astronauts.


And it says nothing about EBE's or their craft.
www.freerepublic.com...

[edit on 7/18/2009 by Phage]

reply to post by Phage

Well that may be. His grand dad also worked with John Lears father, William Lear on "Project Winterhaven" in 1952, That was the anti gravity work under the DoD with Townsend Brown... and that is documented+

But that is really not relevant. If the claims are true there should be records at the Hague or the United Nations in writing

And the whole point of this thread is the SEARCH for records that back the claims, not looking to assassinate the characters of the players

reply to post by zorgon


You're right.
But see my edit.

Originally posted by Phage
And it says nothing about EBE's or their craft.

"Quarantine" means the detention, examination and decontamination of any persons, property, animal or other form of life or matter whatever that is extra-terrestrially exposed, and includes the apprehension or seizure of such person, property, animal or other form of life or matter whatever.

Define "other form of life" that is "extra-terrestrially exposed"