Confessions of an Atheist

reply to post by Gigatronix


I am sorry but it seems like you are getting caught in the window dressings I spoke of earlier but I could be wrong admittingly. My view is that as creationism maybe in support of a "God" *could be used for aliens as well as has been done* evolution is not lend support for either argument as it's a neutral idea twisted into a biased idea *whether it be at source err what, haven't studied Darwin's viewpoints much or really care*. And the sheer fact of how many Christians do not act in accordance with Christ's supposed teachings show how little a great deal of what they say could possibly "come from the horse's mouth" so to speak.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

evolution is not lend support for either argument as it's a neutral idea twisted into a biased idea

this is true that it is twisted into a biased idea, but it does support both theories. Evolution could apply to a world with god and one without.

And the sheer fact of how many Christians do not act in accordance with Christ's supposed teachings show how little a great deal of what they say could possibly "come from the horse's mouth" so to speak.

I know, this was abit of sarcasm on my part hehe. but we're not talking about the sheer masses here, we're talking about important guys that are supposed to be Gods servants and couriers of his message. If the pope comes out and says that being gay is a sin, aren't we supposed to assume that that is God's judgement?

reply to post by Gigatronix

I would have to argue that it neither supports nor detracts from either idea. With or without a "God" it simply is.

Only if you are catholic. And even then questioning it might be in good order. Which is why I am not a member of any organised religion.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

The way I understand Jesus teachings, isn't in terms of any should and shouldn't or rules, but as the relativity of being of of being in God or oneness, and what the implications of that are for people, and he concluded that love was the highest ideal, and a leveller, through which we all share the same ground of being. His interaction with the lawyers and Pharisess was interesting when he laid into them with the parable of the Good Samaritan. That little interaction nails it down really well imo.

Check it out and "grok" it
www.jesuswalk.com...

And I would say that one main purpose of the universe, is for God to experience himself and his love through his own creation and that it is in this context that loving God above all and having no other Gods before God is only appropriate.

But Jesus steps in and states that loving neighbor as self is NO LESS IMPORTANT, and therefore is a reflection of the first commandment.

And this is what leads to eternal life.

So it is about the relativity of being with the same shared ground of being which is God.

And what I like about JC was they he was a REBEL. But to rebel against the church and discard the value inherent in the message, is absurd and foolish imho.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]

to first discover GOD ... to approach GOD ...

first dispel what is said or described to be GOD ...

forget Yhwh, Allah, Buddha, JC, Enlil , RA, Osiris , Ahura Mazda or "The one that breathes fire from atop the mountain" and etc etc

"If you meet the Buddha on the road, KILL HIM ! "

then without all that is seemingly GOD within us , the THRONE emptied ,

through the veils you will see who it is that sits on the THRONE

God is spirit and truth. He is the living spirit of life the spirit of the universe, embued with infinite intelligence and a perfect will and is also light and love itself. And his throne will never be usurped and cannot be.

reply to post by third_eye


I see that there is no throne. Nor a castle, nary a moat. Once I did as you say, I realized it was easier to understand without a God. but that's just me.

Two visions ...

One, an eternal THRONE ...

One, a THRONE of emptiness ...

It is one or the other ?

Or is it one of both ?

I say the jury is still out and maybe out forever.

It is both, but can never be occupied by anything other than God who is free to choose to be present or vacant or both.

Leave a vaccuum of leadership at the apex of the universe and some a-hole is going to come along and try to fill it.. you know the story..

Part of the "problem" may involve what could be considered a universal controversy surrounding the issue of spiritual authority, in the midst of the paradox of leadership and the neccessity for influence.

So while it could very well be empty, methinks it's well guarded, probably by some sort of quantum uncertainty principal or some such thing, so that it can NEVER be usurped, ever.

No one and nothing in creation I don't think can be trusted like that, or like I said some a-hole makes a bid for it, and there, from the apex, by a top down will to power, corrupts the whole damn thing via a principal of domination and submission, when God is Love itself.

Look at the power structures on earth for example..

I have no doubt there's a universal hiearchy of powers and principalities, some of which may very well be in rebellion, or have been set apart as fundamentally untrustworthy.

Do you catch my drift, where for every spiritual principal, since everything is dualistic, there may also be a corresponding temporal-physical manifestation, or do you think I'm way off base here in thinking along these lines..?

I know the throne of my own heart and mind is subject to corruptibility, which is one reason why I've chosen Jesus Christ as my model and representative, to reign as king in me, where there is no amount of Christ which can ever ruin a personality ie: he's been proven trustworthy in every way. Worthy is the Lamb.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]

reply to post by OmegaPoint


I think humans being heirarchal in nature makes us tend to believe the universe is as well. Rather like how we finite creatures and thusly expect the universe to be finite in nature as well *big bang, end time prophecies take your pick*. When all that I can see of the universe it's more cyclic in nature *a wheel a circle if you will and circles have no top*. With no part being the "apex" so much as equally important interconnected mutually dependent parts. But really it's all a question of philosophy and mine is different than yours.

Oh, and I reject dualism as everywhere I look I see spectrums, not just this or that.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

You don't see a pyramid or a "sticky wicket" gate anywhere..?

Doesn't quantum reality come down this an either/or choice?

I'm also into wheels and cycles and spectrums too, but I can't deny a certain logic which suggest that there is ALSO an either/or choice factor lurking at the heart of things as well.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]

reply to post by OmegaPoint


Sure don't. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Though I would of course argue against. Like I said, I see pretty much a wheel in all things, a interdependent circle in which all parts depend on each other with none being the "most important".

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Your view is better, since the other one, the idea of a leadership by neccessity, leads to too many troubles and paradoxes, and to too many devils, like this past Bush/Cheney administration, or the evils of the Roman Catholic Church, Hitler, Stalin etc. etc.

And I've never thought of God as a corporeal entity anyway.

Spirit of truth and love which makes the universe go 'round. That's more like God.

Best not to speak of any sort of "throne" especially not all in caps..

Wonderful ...

the reason I chose to have THRONE in all caps is to detract from the common throne as in a ruler, monarch or earthly king.

I guess my intention was to point to the direction that whenever a THRONE is there ... it is an emptiness that needs to be filled ... a need for a messiah, the return of a king, the search continues for eternity.

Where there is emptiness/void , there is Unemptiness

An empty THRONE invites a "Chosen ONE"

So it is an eternal THRONE of emptiness ,
where emptiness sits on the THRONE

So GOD need not be a "HE"

GOD need not subscribe to prayers and offerings

GOD need not shepherd the flock , we need not be sacrificial lambs

Just as the temple is GATELESS and BOUNDLESS

Where all that we are need not exist where "IS"
Where you are truly "NOW"
Where there is truly only "YOU"

I'm going to be bold however and make a statement here as a Christian.

I think there IS a paradoxical neccessity for leadership and loving influence and that the universe IS by it's nature hierarchical ie: a "kingdom" ruled by Love, and that the "sticky wicket" WAS effectively navigated by Jesus Christ as the embodiment of the Spirit of the Universe, or the living God in human form, whereby, solipsitically, the human being as the latest sentient on the scene is the highest expression of the creative evolutionary process, made by universal intelligent design to contain the spirit of God. In other words, that there on Golgotha, was rendered the apex of the structure in the form of God's love for all his children, and as an unconditional love, it's all-inclusive and not in any way an exclusive proposition. Put another way, when Jesus exclaimed "forgive them father, for they know not what they do" in referring to the very people who crucified him, he included by extension all people, whether they believe in him or not.

reply to post by third_eye


Same thing as what I just said really, except in terms of the notion that for everything a price must be paid and was paid in full ie: Jesus as a one time, once and for all time, Bodhisatva, giving it all for the sake of reconciliation, so that we may take our place with him at the round table of God at the feast of the great Wedding and I am his bride as are YOU.

In other words, we cannot engineer our own salvation, nor can we truly erase the past nor effectively stand in judgement of either ourselves or anyone else being wholly subjective observers.

But nevertheless justice must be preserved and served, and it was there, where the highest standard is mercy, and unending Love in unconditional all-inclusiveness.

What is holy, perfect, true and just cannot be blended with what is corrupt, false, and sinful, and it is in this way that the price of sin is death, yet paid for by the sinless suffering servant of all.

Love to be love, must also be uncompromising.

And so no, WE need not be sacrificial lambs, that's been done already.

The idea in it, the TRUTH of Christianity, is that it was SUPPOSED to represent a final LIBERATION even from bondage to sin and evil or the source of all suffering, since we cannot all be a Buddha and get clear in one lifetime or even in a thousand lifetimes. And maybe Jesus was Buddha reincarnated, in this case to take ON the full weight of suffering, or the other end of the spectrum..

[edit on 21-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]

Thirdeye and omega, stars for you both. While i don't agree with everything you suggest, i am pleased that you are at least giving it serious thought, as opposed to bleating out the same rehashed theory. Keep up the good work.

I think we're done, and you're welcome, hope you got SOMEthing out of it..

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
God is spirit and truth. He is the living spirit of life the spirit of the universe, embued with infinite intelligence and a perfect will and is also light and love itself. And his throne will never be usurped and cannot be.

Thing is, you've really humanised 'Him' in your post. First, God is a 'he' and secondly, it has a 'throne' which presumably 'he' sits on...?

Why would such a 'being/entity/abstract energy' have a gender and why would it need a throne?

Again, to me, this demonstrates the folly of people believing in a higher power -- they always seem to humanise it, which for me, only further lends to dispell it as anything but made up.