Violence is never the answer...?

The Conspiracy: The moral that "Violence is never the answer".
Why?:Everyone here at ATS seems hopeless and filled with doom (after reading Life is a Scam thread, I just puked on the inside of my mouth that so many people actually think that way - your choice).

Let me first say I am not condoning any violence. It is illegal. That is that. BUT.

We tell our children that violence is never the answer (I was told if punched, punch back and kick their !!!).

In our world today, not even that is okay half the time.

I believe violence can be legititmately upheld (in my eyes that is).

On to the real rant. Many members here at ATS claim that the powers that be, which are

1. Something they just like saying because they have no idea what is really happening in the world, for in this case, they just need to be quiet.

or

2. A group or select people that they think rule the economy, and world.

, are ruling the world. I hear that we are doomed, they rule us, life is fake, there is no escaping, we need change.

Talk is cheap.

If you really want change, and really care about society, and really believe there are these bad people ruining the world, why don't you go out there and "get them"?

Is it because YOU are living in the lie? The system?
Death, Slavery, or Freedom with violence?

I highly doubt if one does enough independent research and put their soul to it, that they would be stopped.

My last note is this. As I stated at the top of the post, I am in by no means wanting or even suggesting anyone hurt anyone. Everything is hypothetical and just for discussion.

edit - This topic involves self (physical) defense, psychological defense, and financial defense.


[edit on 7-7-2009 by FritosBBQTwist]

Any life that requires violence against another for survival isn't worth living. I've made the decision that if faced with the choice I choose death. I won't be here long anyway. This life is a couple of seconds in the grand scheme of things.

I hate to point at it, but my signature says it quite plainly.

There are predators and prey. All life is a race, a hide, or a fight. When you can't run, nor hide, you better be ready for a fight when it's thrust upon you.

You see, you don't always determine when a fight will occur. Your opponent will have his ideas.

"Pale Ebenezar thought it wrong to fight,
But Roaring Bill, who killed him, thought it right."

Hillaire Belloc

Violence is the answer for me if I catch a known child molestor creep trying to pick up a kid or something. I'd beat the crap outta the creep, and if i get arrested oh well. The cops dont like those kind creeps either.

I have 2 daughters who are young, I don't want these creeps out walking around. All I know is if I ever saw one of these guys attempting to talk to or pick up my lil girl, man I don't even what I'd do, but it sure as hell wouldn't be pretty.

I love my kids VERY much, I also love my wife VERY, VERY much and she was molested when she was a kid, then sadly, later in her life when she 13 she actually violently raped. Its really sad, but I love her more than anything I protect her and my kids.

So anyways, I HATE scumbags child molestors and rapists and like I said I see no problem with getting in their face if you see them picking up on or talking to your kids, or any one elses kids for that matter.

I hate child molestors with a SEETHING passion, sorry for seeming so angry guys, these subjects just really bother me.

[edit on 7-7-2009 by InfectedWithDevils]

i agree with OP. violence has solved many problems. such as wars.

not that its always the best answer or the first you should try, but often there seems to be a point where peaceful resolution of problems are out of the question.

if you disagree, try explaining how you would have talked hitler out of the holocaust and taking over europe.

Thanks for your comments.

I would use violence to uphold my life if being oppressed any day.

The difference here though is that I do not feel that way, yet I see so many users here at ATS who believe they are.

This thread is more or less directed towards them. None the less, great thoughts both of you.

Eee posts coming in faster than I thought.

Once again I would like to point out that this topic involves self (physical) defense, psychological defense, and financial defense.

So, your thoughts on ALL 3 are appreciated...I will also add this to the OP.

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist

Good idea for a thread!! I always like to see how my fellow ATS members hold up psychologically when faced with such questions....

So a big star and flag for providing me with some good reaing material in the coming days...

Now for the question you stated. I'm a black belt judoka and have been practising the sport since age 4. If my sensei would find out i got in a fight outside the doka i could bet my ass that coming back there would not be option.

If you really want change, and really care about society, and really believe there are these bad people ruining the world, why don't you go out there and "get them"?

"get them" in what way?? If you mean by this with violence than doesn't that make you as bad as the people you are trying to get rid of??

I believe violence can be legititmately upheld (in my eyes that is).

Violence, no!! Self defence, yes!! When all other option have been tried and you still don't get results. Don't get mad ,keep trying!! (At least that is what i teach my children)

Peace

Oh, i've been meaning to ask you this, your username FritosBBQTwist ,that wouldn't accidently have anything to do with one of my biggest heroes ever Mitch Hedberg ,would it?

I had a bag of Fritos. They were Texas Grilled Fritos. These Fritos had grill marks on them. Hell yeah. Reminds me of summer time, when we used to fire up the barbeque and throw down some Fritos.

reply to post by operation mindcrime


No, my name is not a reference to him I was hooked on these chips for a little period and thought it was a funny name...good advertising for Fritos too

Self defense is violence. By violence, I mean self defense, under the three circumstances stated in the OP and other posting.

My threads almost never contain current events...just actual subjects regarding our values in society and such. That is where the real thinking is, not debating over some sex joke about Palin's kid is morally good or not (which it is fine, grow up people, it is just a joke! Who cares if Letterman is a creep or not).

Well, doing things peacefully is what most of all of us would want..even me. If you look through history, jsut about everything was settled with violence of some form or another. The witch trials and burning..unfir trial on a censored voice crying out for help, then burned with a fictasious belif. Holy wars, battels, even just about any modern war, was solved with violence. The only exceptions done peacefully, technically, was after the 2nd atomic bomb was dropped....which wa VERY violent..180,000 innocent people became part of the atmosphere, the ending was unconditonal surrrender on paper..after such a tragic event was implemented. The oint..it got the war to stop, using violence.
Look at today..really..with congress, the FED, police arresting innocent people, congressmen voting agianst our wishes...what maeks us think paper with signatures will hold up? North Korea defied the UN, and made an atomic bomb..lokos like whatever they singed and agreed on didnt hold up.
As long as hmans are around, their will be violence...its who we are, Going through peuberty and destroying things, sparyapinting cars, ect ect is proof of that., how barbaic we can be and are. Hell, ive heard of hunters using machine guns to hunt! instaed of a sporting rile! whats next? artilly cannon for ducks?

Originally posted by Floating thru Reality
Any life that requires violence against another for survival isn't worth living. I've made the decision that if faced with the choice I choose death. I won't be here long anyway. This life is a couple of seconds in the grand scheme of things.

Floating - I am having some difficulty with your reply. Would you mind elaborating a bit.

OP - Violence, Yup ! Works for me.Placing the welfare of a hostile stranger over that of a loved one or ones person is insane or cowardly.
Honor, a word rarely used now-a-days does at times ,require an appropriate amount of physical or psychological leverage. May sound odd, but I have always believed my job as a man is to provide and protect. Old school I guess

reply to post by dazbog


i flat out disagree with something you said

honor is used a lot, just its meaning is ignored.

[edit on 7-7-2009 by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest]

There are times when Violence is the ONLY answer, but it should always be the LAST answer. One of the reasons (Out of an incalculable many) that I truly love living in the United States, is that our Founding Fathers left us a system which requires little to no violence in order to implement positive actions and improvements within it. How many Nations of the Earth can we truly say that about? I do not mean a miniscule positive change here or there either, I mean altering complete directions and agendas, and reversing any possible mistakes made by previous power holders as well. I find that all too often, many living within the United States forget this wonderful aspect of our Nation, and if they would simply partake in some World travel and experience other nations, especially those less fortunate than ours, they would soon find such a factor to be truth and reality.

As for violence, as I stated before, there are times in our History and lives that succumbing to such actions is inevitable towards ones very own survival upon this Planet. What separates the evil from the good however, is that good people do not relish the role of victimizing the innocent, trampling the weak, nor abusing the authority granted to them. A good person will take the life of an evil individual, an abuser if you will, in order to save an innocent individual, if that action is the only way in which to secure their safety and/or continued existence upon this Earth. I myself have no problem in taking out a member of Al-Qaeda for instance, as they have proven themselves to be far gone beyond simple peaceable solutions, and as such, they must be stopped with force. A common criminal I may feel different about, depending upon their crime of course, but a full-fledged brain washed member of a radically murderous cult not only deserves to be brought to justice, but can ONLY be brought to justice through violence. It may sound gloomy and negative in nature, but it is a fact of life. It is a fact of life that I am more than willing to accept, if in my facing such, I can in the process save the lives of the Good, the Weak, the Donwtrodden, and Abused, the Innocent, the Victimized, and the Pure of Heart.

I love Peace, and I relish in it, but I cannot morally nor sensibly stand by in an idle manner while other likewise individuals succumb to the rampages of murderous and evil people.

honor is used a lot, just its meaning is ignored.

honor

there is no honor when you press the trigger.
if you have to kill or beat someone to save your life, do it.

there is no honor in violence , it exist only if you are in a safe heaven .

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist

We tell our children that violence is never the answer

maybe we should have told our govt.instead.




[edit on 7-7-2009 by randyvs]


[edit on 7-7-2009 by randyvs]

Originally posted by dazbog
OP - Violence, Yup ! Works for me.Placing the welfare of a hostile stranger over that of a loved one or ones person is insane or cowardly.
Honor, a word rarely used now-a-days does at times ,require an appropriate amount of physical or psychological leverage. May sound odd, but I have always believed my job as a man is to provide and protect. Old school I guess

Once, in my late teens, a man jumped out at me from behind a corner on a dark city street and tried to rape me. I knocked his head against the blue-stone wall of the building and he died. I have no regret over that, he did something stupid and fate killed him, In that situation I was not responsible for my actions.

However that incident did make me see how easily I can kill, and since then I've made the choice to take care of other people, even violent strangers, risking my own life to do so. Where other people see strangers I see people who I feel a connection to, people who need a hand reached out. Their lives are as important to me as my own.

And strangely, where I've been betrayed in life has mostly not been by the difficult people whose knives and guns I've ignored. It's more often been by "upright pillars of society" who will gladly take advantage anytime they can get away with it.

Now I'm old I can look back and know there are a dozen or more people still alive in this world who I saved from their own violence, people who have since turned their lived around.

It was worth it.

We need REAL MEN of honor behind NATO and UN, not male prostitutes!!

I'm tired of hearing them say, we can't do this and that, bla bla bla, yada yada yada.

They need to act whenever human rights are violated, not only to uphold own selfish interests.

reply to post by TheAgentNineteen


What happens when our politicians and elected leaders go against what we say?

It doesn't matter. They KNOW what the people want and still go against it.
While it could be for the better, I doubt it and do not see it. One reason stated for violence is financial defense along with psychological. Such reasons are the fact that the problems of our government get run down to the people, while "they" do not suffer.

reply to post by randyvs


While I do not want to argue whether those are government setups or not, let us just pretend at the moment that they are.

The government and education system has such laws toward "violence", that maybe it is just a way to keep the people in check. Yet, if you truly believe that violence is never the answer, look at those videos and the wars.

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


The question is: Who do we fight? Do we go after the lobbyists who control everything?
The AMA is trying to stop any type of public option with health care along with the powerful insurance lobby.
The all powerful NRA slipped in an amendment to allow concealed weapons in our federal parks (That will teach you to swap my picnic basket, Yogi!)
The powerful teachers union and lobby does there best to halt any type of education reform.
The corporate lobbies will do their best to stop any type of climate or environmental bill. They just secretly won a Supreme Court ruling to dump toxic wastes in lakes in Alaska.
Wall Street lobbyists control the politicians and any new banking regulations are doomed.

As for violence to protect the family, it should be done only when necessary, and I think anyone in my home without my permission is subject to any action I deem fit.
I have also told my boys to fight back when attacked, as bullies do not pick on people who hit them back.

Violence is something that should be used as a last resort. True Christians are supposed to be pacifists by turning the other cheek and loving thy enemy.

Originally posted by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
reply to post by dazbog

 

i flat out disagree with something you said

honor is used a lot, just its meaning is ignored.

[edit on 7-7-2009 by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest]

I agree. I suppose I should of worded that differently. It is bantered about all to frequently. Congress comes to mind. From a man I respect to state he views me as a man of honor would be a great compliment.