Calls Grow to Increase Stimulus Spending

WASHINGTON -- Vice President Joe Biden said the Obama administration "misread how bad the economy was" and didn't foresee unemployment levels nearing double digits, in comments likely to intensify calls for the administration to do more to counter job losses. Some economists are pressing the White House to enact a second round of stimulus spending or find some other way to avert a prolonged job and wage slump. But the White House is in a tough spot. Officials want to give the $787 billion stimulus package passed in February time to work -- only 10% of the spending is out the door so far -- and there is little appetite in Congress, particularly among Republicans, for spending more money at a time of record deficits. JOSEPH BIDEN The gloomy job picture threatens any economic recovery. The unemployment rate hit 9.5% last month, figures released last week show, and many now expect it to stay high for a long time, eventually reaching double digits. At the same time, wage growth is slumping. People facing unemployment or wage cuts are less able or willing to spend the money needed to stimulate the economy. Already, job losses are hindering recovery in the housing market as foreclosures among people with good credit who have been laid off compound the problems with risky mortgages that triggered the sector's implosion.

online.wsj.com...

If you listen really hard...and hold your hand up to your ears and cuff them.....you can here the first whimpers of the economy EXPLODING.

Another stimulus? Are they freaking insane? We've had numerous "stimulus" under Bush and one crazy ass one under Obama....obviously THEY DIDN'T WORK!!!!!!!!

Holy hell...look around! The spending isn't helping..it's making things worse!

hell...why didn't they just give the stimulus to the banks??? Oh wait they did already...because everyone in the country is IN DEBT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Idiots.

Well David, what do you expect from people that live in a fantasy world where spending money we don't have will solve all problems. And the answer to the question of how, is because they believe "government is the answer".


We a screwed. I just posted an article on how the GM and Chrysler takeovers are already showing signs of failures. I also just saw a poll that says only 27% of people favor a second stimulus.

But no, the "economist" (aka cheerleaders who's careers are about to come to a tragic end because their line of thought is going to worsen this crisis) say we need to spend more money now.

You said it best, the problem is the debt itself. There are people with astronomical credit scores and they can't even get loans.

reply to post by David9176

Well its is my liberal position that anymore stimulus need to go to the taxpayers, we paid it and we should be the tool to replace it back into the business world, it goes to the same place anyways, right to the top...

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


It's just insane. It doesn't matter how much they give out...people are going to pay their bills...their credit cards...their mortgages and car loans.....the money goes right back to the bank and it does NOTHING to help the economy....it just staves off the inevitable....not to mention people are saving whatever they can.

The economist who say we need more stimulus is likely the same "economist" that didn't see this coming....so much for experts...

I wonder how much longer the media can cover for the atrocity and finally reveal how truly bad it's going to get.

What's worse is that none of us are geniuses....why in the hell can we see it and they can't? It's unsustainable...but yet...we keep on spending.

The wrongs have to be righted...and it's going to hurt...and the longer they continue to try to fight it....the worse it will be for all of us.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by David9176]

Well orchastrated plan. They're doing everything right. According to what they really want to do. These people aren't stupid, it's all about creating a situation where they can come in and play the saviour.

They only thing missing is an evil headquarters and an evil laugh saying, "What do you think now, Mr. Bond?"

reply to post by mental modulator

Well its is my liberal position that anymore stimulus need to go to the taxpayers, we paid it and we should be the tool to replace it back into the business world, it goes to the same place anyways, right to the top...

It's not really going to go to the business world....it's going to go to the banks man. People are buying less and paying bills...the only ones that will benefit are the banks. The economy is still going to be crap regardless. It's not helping at all. How many rounds have we had of stimulus?

2 under Bush...which went directly to taxpayers...and did nothing....and Obama's plan...which so far has done nothing and any effects it does have won't even be seen because things will continue to get worse.

We need to quit feeding the beast. If I were to get a check from the government right now...I'd either A. Pay bills B. Save it.

People will continue to be careful with their money when the government keeps spending like they are...it's not gonig to change until they stop and try to cut spending and deficits. If people can't trust their government to be under control with their spending...then they will have no confidence..and won't buy...especially when they keep seeing their friends and family losing their jobs.

worse mistake ontop of compounded mistakes.... ah, no way... they want this ... they need this ... without it they lose and they know it.... so do what I did... I declared non-representation when 97% of america called its representatives and they passed the original stimulas anyway... without our blessing... so, if I read my Consitution - they declared economic war on the American People... and were still wondering what happened... now what do you suppose will happen when no one can afford all of this stimulas... first its the Police will issue ticket's... second they will raise your taxes to own you home... then the insurance will go up because of all the home owners burning their houses down for the insurance... etc... etc... when you opened Clintons can... well these are the worms still crawling out and no one wants to deal with them so you become more and more dependant on the government for survival... sure you can trust the government... just reverse everything they say and you will be closer to the outcome... that they desire...

Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by mental modulator

 

Well its is my liberal position that anymore stimulus need to go to the taxpayers, we paid it and we should be the tool to replace it back into the business world, it goes to the same place anyways, right to the top...

It's not really going to go to the business world....it's going to go to the banks man. People are buying less and paying bills...the only ones that will benefit are the banks. The economy is still going to be crap regardless. It's not helping at all. How many rounds have we had of stimulus?

2 under Bush...which went directly to taxpayers...and did nothing....and Obama's plan...which so far has done nothing and any effects it does have won't even be seen because things will continue to get worse.

We need to quit feeding the beast. If I were to get a check from the government right now...I'd either A. Pay bills B. Save it.

People will continue to be careful with their money when the government keeps spending like they are...it's not gonig to change until they stop and try to cut spending and deficits. If people can't trust their government to be under control with their spending...then they will have no confidence..and won't buy...especially when they keep seeing their friends and family losing their jobs.

No No obviously it will go to the banks as that is where all money accumulates...
But the same dollars that will land in the banks will also pay for many other things before the are Re CAPTURED. As you said you might pay bills which would help the BAnks that robbed us in the first place On the other hand I think from a purely
strategic stance that We will see miraculous improvement soon enough. I really think
the point was to steal, not to destroy the system that allows for future theft. If you all are right about Obama being an insidious character of doom then it would only make sense to place him in a good position come 2012. I mean BIG OIL rapped the nation for
a year and the Economic crap masked that theft pretty well.

Just speculation, I think there is a lot of asset consolidation on the cheap which is just a big a part of this as the initial theft, then bailouts, etc...

Just when I think this administration can't sink any lower. I suddenly feel like the "thimble" in a real world game of monopoly. Milton Bradly keeps printing money for themselves and I'm stuck with Baltic Ave. real estate that keeps declining.

When will this stop?? Foreign nations are no longer holding US currency because it is worth s--t and we want to print more pretty dollars.

How can we afford another round of gimme gimme when Obama and his handlers don't even know how they will pay for Obamacare let alone how they will keep financing medicaid.

What the hell. Let's just erase the nations debt and start over. Just like the board game. One big fat Mulligan for the nation. Come on Barry I know you have it in you.

stimulus money is SLOW in getting anywhere as near as i can tell. our county is full of pot holes, the year-long freeze on 911 operators (which there is a severe shortage of) is still on, we have almost 10% unemployment in our state, and so on and so forth.

sure. increase it. idiots. how about first we account for every dollar of what was ALREADY sent and how it was spent. this applies to bailouts as well as stimulus money. idiots are running this country.

oh and here's where you're "supposed to" be able to keep a watch on it...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 6-7-2009 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by mental modulator

If you all are right about Obama being an insidious character of doom then it would only make sense to place him in a good position come 2012. I mean BIG OIL rapped the nation for a year and the Economic crap masked that theft pretty well.

Well his answer to BIG OIL raping us is what? Cap and Trade? Do we really need another derivatives market? Maybe they'll add some lube this time!!

We lose...we always lose MM.

I know people want to believe in Obama and the Dems....but Liberals won't get what they want...only an illusion of what they want....which is the same thing "conservatives" have been hit with...and why they are so angry.

IMO.....

Liberals are going to be fighting mad soon...and it won't be at just Republicans....

Maybe our piece of crap government can start to unite everyone this country...if only they'd quit watching gossip about MJ....

Both sides of the political spectrum are corrupted...more people just need to realize it...and hold them accountable.

Oh...and I don't see a miraculous turnaround coming...but I hope I'm wrong. I don't know where you are getting your optimism from but at least your optimistic. I'm not...too many things say it's not going to be...not anywhere close...imo.

Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by mental modulator

 

We need to quit feeding the beast.

Just to make you aware that very statement was used as a tool of the FRENCH ELITE prior to the French Revolution. Remember there are two beasts and you starve one too much and the other will be let loose... In that period in French history the point of starving the beast was to attack the bellies of society in order to further consolidate power.
The logic was that if you made the majority of the population unemployed and hungry
the private sector and elites could garner more control. Although I am not sure if this logic still applies, but I hope you will consider that the line mentioned above was the tag line for the anti citizen line in a very famous period in world history... Not accusing you of anything, just keeping that good strategies are good strategies.

reply to post by mental modulator

The logic was that if you made the majority of the population unemployed and hungry the private sector and elites could garner more control.

And that is happening right now....and laws passed by our government has let it happen...because they've all been bought to retain their office.

They already have control...they own the media...own the politicians....control the food supply...control the war machine.

What do we control MM?

The sovereignty, wealth, power, and freedom of all of us in this country is disappearing.

Hell even our votes have no integrity....we can't even have an honest election.

Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by mental modulator

 

If you all are right about Obama being an insidious character of doom then it would only make sense to place him in a good position come 2012. I mean BIG OIL rapped the nation for a year and the Economic crap masked that theft pretty well.

Well his answer to BIG OIL raping us is what? Cap and Trade? Do we really need another derivatives market? Maybe they'll add some lube this time!!

We lose...we always lose MM.

I know people want to believe in Obama and the Dems....but Liberals won't get what they want...only an illusion of what they want....which is the same thing "conservatives" have been hit with...and why they are so angry.

IMO.....

Liberals are going to be fighting mad soon...and it won't be at just Republicans....

Maybe our piece of crap government can start to unite everyone this country...if only they'd quit watching gossip about MJ....

Both sides of the political spectrum are corrupted...more people just need to realize it...and hold them accountable.

Oh...and I don't see a miraculous turnaround coming...but I hope I'm wrong. I don't know where you are getting your optimism from but at least your optimistic. I'm not...too many things say it's not going to be...not anywhere close...imo.

Well I think you should try to see a strategy out of this whole thing... I does not serve the EXECUTIONERS of this whole debacle if the capital base they have just stocked up on fails? Think about it D, it would be like a THIEF stealing the MONA LISA, Spray painting on it and then trying to sell the MONA LISA.

The one that is real tricky is cap and trade

There is an anti science campaign that has been funded by... BIG BUSINESS
cap and trade would hurt ENTRENCHED BIG BUSINESS most of all, BUT it would create a new big business and new interests...

My problem is that people are attacking many fields of science to debunk the human impact on the atmosphere. As you might know this was my fathers field of expertise and that guy did not have a political bone in his body as we know it here. The man worked extensively in ecological exchange systems and spent decades on the study of carbon as well as environmental toxicology. I will tell you NO BS, man to man that there is BIG MONEY being thrown in order to dilute Global warming, more importantly the impact of the toxins emitted and the shut down of vital ocean currents.

I wish there was not this big push for many conservatives to become overnight scientists and claim to know the entire field. This aspect is a real 1500 century style shame. This problem should be attacked at the true point of contention which is the
cap n trade system, but for gods sakes attacking the base of human knowledge which was initially a scheme of the BIG companies worried about big taxes in the first place.

Really is sad to me...

We all need to figure out who our beliefs benefit, if we all want change we need to see if we are fighting our masters fight or the fight of our MASTERS MASTER.

Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by mental modulator

 

The logic was that if you made the majority of the population unemployed and hungry the private sector and elites could garner more control.

And that is happening right now....and laws passed by our government has let it happen...because they've all been bought to retain their office.

They already have control...they own the media...own the politicians....control the food supply...control the war machine.

What do we control MM?

The sovereignty, wealth, power, and freedom of all of us in this country is disappearing.

Hell even our votes have no integrity....we can't even have an honest election.

We control our minds, our limited holdings,,, we are here for work, because their money initially starts off as our money. They use ideology as a way to police other citizens and enforce doctrine that serves them... A hungry man is a lazy man, a sick man is an irresponsible man, a rich man is a hard working man... I think YOU will get to the point where I am now, as I have changed and we have similar aspirations for the country.

The wealth and power is not disappearing D, it is exactly where it is intended to be and where it always has been.

I hope you think about every political line you take,,, and then figure out who is benefitting or who has the potential to lose. Then look at the political world and see
whose interests you are really championing, I am doing that now and it has expanded things so much.

reply to post by mental modulator

There is an anti science campaign that has been funded by... BIG BUSINESS cap and trade would hurt ENTRENCHED BIG BUSINESS most of all, BUT it would create a new big business and new interests...

Well, that's kind of my point. MSNBC parades green week on their channel...it was literally on the screen 24 hours a day that week and pretty much every network promotes it....which we all know is corporate owned. GE owns MSNBC who has a major stake in cap and trade....and as you know one of Obama's advisors is the CEO of GE.

Whether humans have an actual effect on the weather...I think they do...but I also don't think we are all going to melt either because of pollution. Imagine if the Dust bowl came back? Was that caused by man's climate change? Highly doubtful.

The sun can drastically change our weather with solar flares and really just our basic revolution around the sun....hence our seasons. The earth has gone through massive warming periods and freezing periods...and we weren't around to be blamed for it.

The problem with the whole thing..this puts more control in the power of 'elites'...even if it's not the same 'elites'...it's still the same thing. Not to mention this makes life harder for the average person and makes them abide by even more stricter laws...all in the name of the environment.

We need to stop trying to control everything...because we can't. It's not achievable. After this crisis passes...there will be another...and another...and another. It never ends....and with every crisis we are expected to give up more of what keeps us free.

It's all just infuriating really. Our jobs are gone, we are broke, we are in a neverending war, our government is corrupted...yet we are supposed to take more of the burden? Aren't we burdened enough already?

reply to post by mental modulator

I hope you think about every political line you take,,, and then figure out who is benefitting or who has the potential to lose. Then look at the political world and see whose interests you are really championing, I am doing that now and it has expanded things so much.

I have...learning more by the day which is probably why I'm looking at things a bit differently than I did before. I have soaked up more info in the last 8 months than pretty much my entire life.

Think about this.

Where's the anti-war movement? It's gone. The media left the issue. Are there people still protesting? If so where? Did they just quit protesting because there was a new President? Do they realize the war will last his entire Presidency...whether it be 4 or 8 years and long after? There was no anti-war candidate for President. We had one guy rambling on about the freaking surge and another talking about going into afghanistan. Both were advocates of cap and trade as McCain supported it as well.

And what about the debt? Weren't Democrats complaining about our deficit before but now it's ok? What the hell is going on.

I've seen many people post, trashing the tea parties, and saying, "Where were they the last 8 years?"

Well, I ask those people..."Where are YOU now?"

The bank bailouts woke up a lot of people but the excuse of a new President is there to blame their ire for....forgetting that Bush had a dismal approval rating when he left office.

Originally posted by David9176

Another stimulus? Are they freaking insane? We've had numerous "stimulus" under Bush and one crazy ass one under Obama....obviously THEY DIDN'T WORK!!!!!!!!

Holy hell...look around! The spending isn't helping..it's making things worse!

The economy is bad and getting worse. But it could have been a LOT worse without the stimuli. We'd be looking at 1929 again.

There may well be a need for another stimulus, but the timing is key. Has to be big enough, fast enough, to do any good. Congress will probably jack around until it's too late.

How can you prove the stimuli are making things worse? Do you have some data on where we'd be now without them?

In the 1920's Herbert Hoover took the road you and the WSJ are evidently wanting to travel. No government spending. Cutbacks in existing programs. Encourage population to save, not spend.

The tent cities that were erected by those unemployed by the depression were called "Hoovervilles" in his honor.

It took FDR and the New Deal about ten years to get us out of the mess.

Not that history means anything to anyone but the wise.

Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by mental modulator

 

There is an anti science campaign that has been funded by... BIG BUSINESS cap and trade would hurt ENTRENCHED BIG BUSINESS most of all, BUT it would create a new big business and new interests...

The problem with the whole thing..this puts more control in the power of 'elites'...even if it's not the same 'elites'...it's still the same thing. Not to mention this makes life harder for the average person and makes them abide by even more stricter laws...all in the name of the environment.

We need to stop trying to control everything...because we can't. It's not achievable. After this crisis passes...there will be another...and another...and another. It never ends....and with every crisis we are expected to give up more of what keeps us free.

It's all just infuriating really. Our jobs are gone, we are broke, we are in a neverending war, our government is corrupted...yet we are supposed to take more of the burden? Aren't we burdened enough already?

certainly we are burdened enough... What is interesting is that ultimately you are are asking for less control, yet you want the government to exercise more control of its actions. But I think controlling big business to a degree is necessary, for it is these interests that undermine the government. The thing about the environment and where you should be thinking big picture is that there WILL be a massive influx of technology
arising soon enough. MOST of the civilized world is already ahead in R&D, Implementation and funding on many of the technologies that will provided $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ on the sums you can't imagine to the governments and citizenry that own the environmental technology sector. Can you imagine if we did not lead the way with the plane, automobile, computer or any number of blossoming technologies of the past?

Now most of Europe is putting the smack down on their companies and we waffle and let power be the final word... David I will tell you it will be at our expense... IT WOULD BE THE FIRST TIME IN MODERN HISTORY THAT AMERICA IS BEHIND IN THE GAME.
The first time our innovation was not the pinnacle of modern technology.

Mark my words if we fall short on this one you do not need the government to impoverish you my friend, it will be a ceremony free passing of Americas stature.

This will be achieved like it always has been, by embracing the power of the status quo and it is SOLD by PR firms hired to save Utilities, Big oil and Big chemical $$$.
Their strategy is to keep you in the now and appeal to your idealism, makes it easier to forget the beginning of new jobs and fields that have yet to be "coined". It also makes it easier to forget the likely savings you will benefit from in the long term. This strategy is
so very apparent to me, clear as a bell, it is the same strategy used to keep the BIG HEALTH writing their own laws and smashing your wallet.

I believe this is the one place we differ... you see the government as the evil and I see that it is the MAGA MONEY in the private sector is the evil that taints the government to such a degree. Another point we differ on is how do we fix this relationship between the two.
I don't think ANYTHING can change until the peoples house attacks the root of the problem which is the influence that is exhorted on the government by the POWER. OUR problem is that changing this influence requires a powerful entity to stand on our behalf...

Can you at least see that siding with things that keep the private power powerful will only add to the problems of government?

Effectively you want these things to stay as the are in the private world, but as I see it that only ensures the same results. A system where we fund our true enemies and also give them keys to our government, because the government is directed to keep things safe for the Elite by citizens who take up their cause by proxy, under the guise of ideology.

reply to post by mental modulator

Can you at least see that siding with things that keep the private power powerful will only add to the problems of government?

I'm not railing for big business....not at all....what I'm trying to say is that they government passed legislation that enabled Nafta and repealed anti trust laws. Those 2 things alone have been disasterous for the US and have given the corporate elite far too much power..and that is why we are in the trouble we are. You cannot trust a powerful entity to come in and take power...I'd rather things be done through Congress....giving the Executive branch evermore expanding powers is crazy and dangerous.

Another thing is change all election funding to public instead of private. No more donations...no more lobbying. This is the way to do it...not hostile takeovers of businesses because that does nothing but transfer power from one entity to another.

That's what I'm getting at. I've said many times...both are too big. Yes, the government needs to change some laws that have enabled this to happen...but they need to do it the right way...and they need to shrink their own power themselves as well.

And really..i think we are screwed either way.