Modest New Moon Images Leave NASA Elated... really?

Originally posted by Phage
The camera carried by the LRO has quite impressive capabilities.

Yep, it sure does.

Here is more detailed specs of the instruments on board.

LINK

NAC will be capable of taking 50cm/pixel images which is quite good considering the distance from the moon ...

I see where your coming from and to respond...it's reasons like these I with I was Japanese. At least they went High-Def.

Had a post but it was bad timing or the alignment of the nebular was off by 1/10th of light year so it fell into a black hole.

I was speaking with my wife last night about this issue and we raised most of the same questions in the OP. Phage to the rescue! I suppose I could've gone to the websites themselves to cull my speculation, but I knew there'd be a topic on ATS and I thoroughly enjoy the diverse opinions involved here.

So thank you, Phage, for doing the work and pointing us to the links that better explain why we didn't get good images right away.

If I might add, I do wish that these pictures would come into public hands sooner. In this day and age, where anyone with a cellphone can take 100 pictures and upload them to Facebook or whatever within 15 minutes, it would be nice to see the same from this imager, even the Kaguya.

There's a GREAT website called Galaxy Zoo where visitors sift through millions of galaxies and help the researchers there to classify them. Really a lot of fun and if you haven't checked it out, go there. It's addictive.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could do the same thing with the moon photos? It would save the folks at NASA a heck of a lot of time and give us as citizens that impression that we're actually involved!

Galaxy Zoo is in its 2nd phase right now; it began with users classifying galaxies as either spiral or elliptical; now it asks if they are round or with arms, as well as how round or how many arms, as WELL as if there's anything "odd" in the picture. It's designed to help point scientists towards the types of galaxies most like our own so that they can better direct their efforts in exploring the depths of space.

Moon Picture Questions:

Is it a crater, general landscape, artifact/camera defect?

Large crater with deposits, or without?

Is there anything odd?

I'll leave you with this Kandinsky... October is how many months away? And you wait and except the pictures they show you after having them for months and fixing just the way you like them. I read every inch of the comments here and if you call me ignorant for believeing what you don't, doesn't that make you ignorant as well? Yea... I think it does. We see two crappy pictures days after the probe left Earth, but now we'll have to wait three months for any more... think about that Kandinsky. Just open up your mind to the thoughts of having to come to another conclusion other than your own for you can be wrong as well... but you won't hear that as is obvious in your sarcastic responce. Sounds like you have all the answers whereas I won't be so nieve and continue to ask questions; and that's because I don't know it all like you! Good luck continuing to live in your fantasy world of make believe and I'll continue to live in my world where I know NASA is full of crap and continues to fool the small-minded mis-guided and un-educated and easily manipulated Earth puppets. Have a good day and take care! Yes... Earth puppets!

reply to post by LunarLooney1

The LCROSS impact will be in October. It's likely we will see some images from the LCROSS cameras before then.

We will probably be seeing the first images from the LRO within a few weeks. It's not exactly like pushing a button on a snapshot camera.

About a week and half after reaching the commissioning orbit we will begin activating the remaining instruments and start calibrating them. These have not been turned on yet for a number of reasons. First, the insertion at the moon is a critical and time constrained phase of the mission and the prime focus is safely delivering LRO into the right orbit. Secondly, the instruments (except the radiation instruments which are already on) are not designed to yield very useful or interesting data from anywhere except LRO's planned orbits. The cameras in particular are designed to build their images as the lunar surfaces passes through their FOV at ~1.6 km/s as LRO orbits the moon. They cannot be simply pointed at the moon or earth during our transit to the moon and snap a photo.

lroupdate.blogspot.com...

Why not wait a little longer before bitching.

I think you are on to something. High megapixel cameras are cheep these days. If you are going to the moon and spending billions to fly your spacecraft there, the least you could have done was shell out a few hundred dollars for a decent camera.

reply to Phage...I have to bitch now because I already know the inevitable outcome. We only get to see what they want us to see; and surely not all the pictures they take. Hubble has taken over 1 million pictures of deep space, yet only a few hundred are available even ten years later. Moreover, Hubble could not give us a clear picture of the Moon... or the dark side of the Moon in all these years... yea... I'm bitching because I'm paying for it. How about you? Do you work and pay taxes? Because if you do... you too own NASA... or atleast they had you believe you did for your money. No... nothing wrong here huh? okay!post by Phage




[edit on 25-6-2009 by LunarLooney1]

reply to HappyFeet....indeed! And thanks for agreeing something's not sitting right!post by LunarLooney1

So the other day I decided to post a comment on in the comments section of the LCROSS page - to let them know how I felt:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c4e5fabe60de.jpg[/atsimg]

But then I scrolled down and was hit with a surprise - My own grandson had beaten me to the punch....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/926249493c7c.jpg[/atsimg]

Then I decided to issue a rebuttal to someone on the board who accused the general public of having a "whinefest" - only to find out that my progeny had beaten me to it again:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e892ca6eb869.jpg[/atsimg]

*These are also comments and opinions which I was going to post in this thread but that would be redundant now that the above extracts have been presented - and I feel my earlier comments on page One were concise, succinct and quite aptly describe the situation. ===

Here is a link to the comments section so you can read what is there and make your own contributions.

www.nasa.gov...

[edit on 26-6-2009 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by LunarLooney1
Really? I can only laugh at your closed-minded respoce.

And I can only laugh at your lack of understanding.

You really believe they were testing the camera? I can take a clearer picture from here on Earth with my cheap equiptment.

Your cheap equipment can't function completely remotely in the vacuum of space, nor is it designed to be thermally self-regulating.

And so my question has been already answered when I asked for responces from "intelligent ATS members." NASA designs their strories front page for the nieve and gullable, now again I'll ask for intelligent responces from those who are not fooled by NASA's cover story.

It's beyond foolish to imply that phage is not intelligent. They got no closer than about 90 thousand km over the surface, that's far too high to get close-up images or video with equipment designed to image the moon in a wide swath while only a few km's over the surface.

Originally posted by LunarLooney1
Moreover, Hubble could not give us a clear picture of the Moon... or the dark side of the Moon in all these years... yea... I'm bitching because I'm paying for it.

Hubble has taken clear pictures of the moon, but it's not in lunar orbit, so how exactly is it suppose to take clear pictures of the "dark side" of the moon? Do you even know how to access the wide array of available hubble images, or do you only go for the ones released as JPGs? Judging from the above, I'd say no.

ngchunter... how many pictures of Hubble have you counted? And I think you should scroll up this thread and see what many others like me are writing... billions of dollars and we still get garbage pictures. Seems as though 2 grainy pictures from a billion dollar project works for you and you're okay with that. And I don't need to be up in the atmosphere to take a picture of the Moon as you so suggest... I have better pictures of the Moon from here on Earth; and wouldn't you think that the closer you get to the Moon, the better quality the pictures should be? You sound like another mis-guided nieve and un-educated ATS member. You should try and sign up for the Seseme Street web-site... seems more up your alley of this fantasy world you're living in. Now I have to add you to my list of Earth puppets and children under 18. Finally, walk out your front door and look up at the Moon... now you have a better and clearer picture of the Moon than the one NASA fooled you with. Moreover, Carl Sagen has a book with the same picture in it. So if it wasn't taken from the book, then NASA took the same picture, from the same position over 25 years ago and that I find hard to believe. So before you run your disrespectful mouth again, get out of your chair and do some real investigating... instead of pretending to know everything. I ask a question stating these two pictures don't look right and you respond nasty, disrespectful, and ill-informored. They now have medication for confussed sociopaths like yourself... you should give it a try! And move on from this thread and go disrespect someone else... this thread is not for children!

reply to post by LunarLooney1
You've made claims that the images are below par for what you expected. That's fair enough. Subsequently, members point out the reasons why the images aren't great...rather than reevaluating your position, you continue to criticize the images

Your follow-up posts are just trolling for jokes. Phage and NgcHunter are amongst the most informed guys on ATS when it comes to astronomy, Nasa and space. That's a fact. You've been a member for long enough to be aware of this. By questioning their subject knowledge you're intentions are transparent....you're trolling for negative attention

Originally posted by Phage
The scientists are not "elated" about the quality of the images, they very pleased that their instruments are functioning properly. These first images are tests, nothing more. The reason the images are not crystal clear is because the cameras used are not designed for use at these distances.

The visible and infrared cameras on LCROSS - designed to scan the moon from much closer than Tuesday's flyby - are working, NASA officials said, and that was the point of the first images.

www.space.com...

There is better to come.

Thank you Phage and ngchunter. I was hoping someone with some scientific sense would set the record straight here.

The general scientific ignorance and lack of understanding of some people on ATS makes me sad sometimes. If some of these ATS members are supposed to be the "informed" people, I would hate to meet the uninformed ones.



[edit on 6/26/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

Originally posted by Equinox99
I see where your coming from and to respond...it's reasons like these I with I was Japanese. At least they went High-Def.

LCROSS isn't meant to take high-resolution pictures. That's not the purpose of the mission.

That's NASA's LRO spacecraft is for. The LRO is totally separate spacecraft than LCROSS, but they were both launched at the same time. The LRO will take the highest-resolution photos ever of the Moon from orbit -- much better than the Japanese high-def video camera.

The LRO spacecraft will begin taking hi-res pictures in several weeks.


....and furthermore:

The primary point of this fly-by was NOT to take pictures (although they used the opportunity to test the cameras). The point of the fly-by was to use the Moon's gravity to "pull" the orbit of LCROSS into the right position to be able to impact the Moon's South Polar region in October.

This gravity assist is the most efficient way to achieve the proper orbit (which is roughly perpendicular to the ecliptic plane).

Here's a graphic showing the trajectory of LCROSS. You can see how it was "thrown up" out of the ecliptic plane by the gravity of the Moon:
www.nasa.gov...



[edit on 6/26/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

Originally posted by LunarLooney1
ngchunter... how many pictures of Hubble have you counted?

I don't sit around counting images, if there's something I want a hubble image for I check stsci and see if it's available:
archive.stsci.edu...
There are over 100,000 hubble images available.

And I think you should scroll up this thread and see what many others like me are writing... billions of dollars and we still get garbage pictures. Seems as though 2 grainy pictures from a billion dollar project works for you and you're okay with that.

LCROSS cost a mere $79 million, not billions. By comparison, LRO cost about $500 million and will be the star of the show with the best camera equipment on board.

And I don't need to be up in the atmosphere to take a picture of the Moon as you so suggest... I have better pictures of the Moon from here on Earth;

You obviously didn't comprehend what I wrote; your equipment isn't designed to work in the vacuum of space, nor is it thermally self-regulating, nor is it capable of distinguishing water vapor in a dust cloud. LCROSS is all of those things with one of NASA's cheapest satellites.

and wouldn't you think that the closer you get to the Moon, the better quality the pictures should be? You sound like another mis-guided nieve and un-educated ATS member.

The equipment was designed to work at its best from a few dozen kilometers away, not tens of thousands. You don't send a telephoto lens to get a widefield shot at the most critical part of your mission. The mission isn't to please armchair conspiracy theorists who've never launched a satellite, all while they're still in the testing and maneuvering phase. What part of that don't you understand? People in glass houses shouldn't be tossing "naive" stones.

You should try and sign up for the Seseme Street web-site... seems more up your alley of this fantasy world you're living in. Now I have to add you to my list of Earth puppets and children under 18. Finally, walk out your front door and look up at the Moon... now you have a better and clearer picture of the Moon than the one NASA fooled you with.

So you're just here to troll rather than discuss the facts of the matter, got it. For your information, I've taken better photos of the moon than you'll ever attain...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c96a7d53bbed.jpg[/atsimg]
...but I know better than to assume that they should be hauling my telescope along on a mission designed to get a widefield action shot from only a few kilometers away with no room for error.

Moreover, Carl Sagen has a book with the same picture in it. So if it wasn't taken from the book, then NASA took the same picture, from the same position over 25 years ago and that I find hard to believe.

You hardly seem like you're qualified to examine lunar libration, lighting, crater morphology, and make a determination on whether two lunar photos are identical or not.

So before you run your disrespectful mouth again, get out of your chair and do some real investigating... instead of pretending to know everything. I ask a question stating these two pictures don't look right and you respond nasty, disrespectful, and ill-informored. They now have medication for confussed sociopaths like yourself... you should give it a try! And move on from this thread and go disrespect someone else... this thread is not for children!

Your entire post was condescending and disrespectful. I was objecting to your treatment of phage, but I wasn't attempting to disrespect you. If it's respect you want, try giving it first.

[edit on 26-6-2009 by ngchunter]

Originally posted by LunarLooney1
...So before you run your disrespectful mouth again, get out of your chair and do some real investigating... instead of pretending to know everything...

You're preaching about doing "real investigating" yet you have demonstrated that you don't understand the primary mission of the LCROSS probe and its equipment.

Complaining that LCROSS's pictures aren't hi-res enough is like a carpenter complaining that his saw doesn't pound nails very well.

Perhaps you should learn more about LCROSS (and LRO, for contrast) before blindly criticizing it in an uniformed manner.

Remember: ATS's motto is to "Deny Ignorance", not to perpetuate it.


[edit on 6/26/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

Originally posted by LunarLooney1
...Finally, walk out your front door and look up at the Moon... now you have a better and clearer picture of the Moon than the one NASA fooled you with...

I know what I'm about to say isn't what you meant (you are talking about picture resolution) but there is no way to see the parts of the moon LCROSS showed us from your front door...

...and that's because the Moon was in the "New Moon" phase that day, which means all of the lit-up portions of the Moon that we saw from LCROSS was the far side of the moon -- the side that is never visible from the Earth.

Originally posted by LunarLooney1
Two pictures released from the new probe landing and both miles from the Moon.

Two pictures released?

What two pictures are you talking about, that was a live transmission of the insertion into lunar orbit (I think it's the right name, space navigation is not my strongest point), with the images updating at a rate of 1 image per second, I saw them during my lunch break.