UFOs: Lets cut the crap already

reply to post by rich23

Without a hypothesis

and this my friend is the question to be asked.. and results in 2 logical thoughts...

GOD and NO GOD

people say "i dont know" for fear of the life we live... "god" the other flip side is based on science..

god if he/she/it is real in ones capacity made EVERYTHING

including the hypothesis ; )

hehe

that is why skeptics make me chuckle, they never will give you an answer but skirt around the answer.

yes. or . no

the chose OR always "easy way out"

reply to post by symmetricAvenger


Dear symmetricAvenger

We are the mushroom men. Kept in the dark and fed on SH*T.

We read and read and one thing contradicts the other. It is what make it such fun really imagine knowing it all it would be so boring.

i went to sleep and was awoken by my girlfriend. she kept shaking me and saying what is that, what is that. i said leave me alone, im trying to sleep. she kept on. when i turned over my eyes went from comming out of sleep to a complete stare at what i saw. i looked around to see what may be creating it. the shades were pulled, the door was closed, all the lights were off except a blue night light on the far side of the room. while watching this thing and looking for where this funny light was comming from, then it moved. it was in front of the t.v now it moved to the side. i stared, my eyes now affixed on the thing. it started to come closer. i noticed it had movement on the outside of this ball of light. the thing was just a bit bigger than a golf ball. it came closer, lissa said what is it. i said , i dont know. i then said, im going to touch it. no sooner than i got off the bed it faded thru the wall. when it did this i could see outside, the other side of the wall and then it got less brighter, and then the wall was the wall again. i did not get no sleep after that for a couple of days.
to exsplain what it looked like, take a laser light and point it at a white blank peice of paper. stare at it. notice how that in the red ball you can see movement in the red ball, small movements. if you have bad eyesight you will not see this, so dont bother. now this thing was a bit larger than a golf ball and the little movements in the ball were bigger also. this has always been a puzzle in my life. i do not care if you beleive or not. all i am saying is that there are things out there that are unexsplained. im not saying i was visited by a ufo either. im saying i have no clue as to what i saw. i will always have an open mind when it comes to wierd stuff.

speaking of weird stuff. last summer when i was taking out the trash, i noticed a large fly. now this fly was almost the size of my fist. it was on the hood of my car starring at me. it took me by surprise and i was scared, so i stepped back. i starred at it and i got closer. its head turned a couple of times. starring at it and looking for something in the garbage to hit it, i found a telephone book. i wipped the book at it and missed. the thing flew past my head. i was scared, and told the neighbor next to me the next day when she got home.
that same year in august my neighbor came over to my house and asked me to kill a large spider that they were all scared of. i said sure and went outside. there three other nieghbors were out there sarring at it. i said, holy #, what kind of spider is that? it was a hairy tan spider with a black and red marking on it. it was twice the size of a taranchula. i starred and said get me a broom. well it was on the garage next door. i took the broom and swung and missed, it was so fast. everyone bolted from the garage. i went back and saw it was hiding in the grass next to the garage. i went up to it and killed it with the broom. man, that spider scared the living # out of me. who knows what it was or how venomous it was, i just knew that that thing was not going to hang out next to my house. i saw another one this year with the same markings comming out under my porch, it too was fast. i did not look for that one, it can stay there im not going under there.

Ditto one4all's post! He speaks the truth. Besides, if you observe the human race and our current sciences, you will find that it's lacking in capacity compared to that of our technologically superior galactic room mates.

Rewind time by a hundred years...that's not too long ago at all. Where were we then? How were women treated? How were African-americans treated? Now look at us today...how far have we come? Sorry to say, but we haven't evolved as much as we like to believe. The average human mind is weak, and these are the same minds that create the 'sciences', which are, to the vast majority, nothing more than a skeptic's scope. What's the point in trusting our minds to science when the very minds that fuel it are tainted themselves?

Yes, you can acquire clear-cut proof of UFO, aliens etc, but it's no walk in the park...and it's pointless too. Let's assume aliens emerge from their shells and walk to the supermarkert and you see them first-hand. So what? Your suspicions have been verified? You don't have to doubt it anymore? What exactly does that accomplish? It's futile. This see-it to believe-it mentality that pervades the human race merely showcases humans as spiritually inept and lacking in intuition...

[edit on 18-7-2009 by VergeofObscene]

[edit on 18-7-2009 by VergeofObscene]

reply to post by Xtraeme


Hi Xtraeme/

» UFOs: Lets cut the crap already

Let's just do that!



I on the other hand was not a skeptic but a firm believer of alien life existing on other planets!
It was as some already have confessed to 'my Religion' I took every chance I got to defend such deception, if ever there was another,it was the occult,another demonic dception!
What changed my thinking or my new found knowledge?
I started to fully understand the Modern ideas being put forth in all aspects of our life,from Media to religious systems being UNwise because they had yet not met with Gods True WISDOM.
This world is full of PROPAGANDA...and it's easy to see this now because of a few books I have read!
What books?
Early Christians DIED horrific,torturous unbelievable deaths at the hands of their KINGS and those in charge of the Political systems,only because they did not live up to their OLD BABYLON belief of DEMONS!
It was either Bow down or WORSHIP their Idols or be forced through horrendous cruelty...Faith In the True God ,The Lord Jesus Christ was the last thing on their lips,before the cruelty began and ended!
It is in the true stories of these Saintly people that one can come to know the True God.
The Old Testament is WISE with the LOGOS of God...."When the RIGHTEOUS are in authority,
the people rejoice:but when the WICKED beareth rule,
the people mourn" (Prov.29:2)
When the WICKED beareth RULE,THE PEOPLE indeed MOURN!

From OUTER SPACE..weaponry to FIRE IN the skies...
All these will be lies and wonders of demons!


If one was to read and find when all this U.F.O mystery actually began,they would not at all be surprised.
Whether they are demons,masquerading as ALIEN BEINGS,to a more plausible explanation of them being Scientific experiments(contactees)conducted right here on earth!
DEMONS are known and Always have been known since Early times, to play and use the MIND of man.
Demons... easily explained by Early Christian Desert Fathers who experienced similar deceptions, but demons failed because of the faith and prayers of the elders...later centuries these BEINGS changed their appearance as the World around us changed.
Demons (Alien beings) appeared as 'angels of light'....they would appear to pray in place of the elder,ONLY if the elder did other work eg/use his/her time doing wordly things,instead of Spiritual prayer.
To appear as a Demon,the Elders would understand who they were and they fought them with prayer,fasting and HUMILITY...but appearing as an angel of light,they simply were fooled at first because they assumed they did something good and God sent them to him/her...only HUMILITY made the demons disappear.(PRIDE was Lucifers ONLY sin)...to actually think of oneself as a sinner,is to show humility to God...Demons hate this!
“Whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased;
and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted” (Mat. 23:13).
Demons (Mermaids-lady of the waters etc)appearing as beautiful sea women to allure one away from their families and use their mind for lust....(popular among fisherman-working family men)
Demons(fairies,etc) are another appearing to children and ordinary people to deceive....mainly happened in forests and near trees and in homes(childrens playgrounds)...later leading to a fascination of the occult later in life and New Age Wisdom etc..
Demons (Leprechauns,gnomes or similar) famous for hidden treasures,money, gold etc...
Many of the MIRACLES occurring in the skies are similar in nature.
All and many more are fallen Angels....all were spoken of by these early Christian Desert Fathers.

To grasp the true meaning of Christian mysticism, one must study the earliest Eastern Church mystics carefully,
for it is in the light of their experience that later deviations from the norm can be properly evaluated.
There were some aberrations among them, of course, but nothing to be compared with the false and foolish mixtures found in Europe in all of the Middle Ages (700-1450 A.D.)

~Desert Fathers on Mysticism~



The popular MODERN unidentified Flying Object seen today in the skies, are just THAT!
Modern Demon deceptions and man made lies!
Why else is the whole government in DENIAL?
Propaganda is used by all means....... to Influence,to invade,to corrupt, to deceive the MIND like never before in worlds History ever heard of!
And because man has chosen to be deceived,God will ALLOW


"Let no one deceive you by any means;
for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first,
and the man of sin is revealed,
the son of perdition,
who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped,
so that he sits as God in the temple of God,
showing himself that he is God …
And now you know what is restraining (Divine Grace and Providence), which does not allow his appearance.
that he may be revealed in his own time.
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work;
only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way...(The overt rebellion began in Russia in February, 1917,
when the people rose up against the Lord and against His Anointed,
the Orthodox Emperor,
whose role,
as the apostle said,
was to restrain the coming of the Antichrist (II Thessalonians 2.7).
And so the Lord allowed the Antichrist to come.
He allowed "the flesh [the body politic] to be delivered to Satan,
so that the spirit [the Church] could be saved"I Corinthians 5.5
And then the lawless one will be revealed,
whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan,
with all power,
signs,
and lying wonders,
and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish,
because they did not receive the love of the truth,
that they might be saved.
And for this reason God will will send them strong delusion,
that they should believe the lie,
that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (2 Thes. 2:3-11).

"In latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons" (1 Tim. 4:1).

"would not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts" (Rev. 9:2-21, 16:13, 18:23)


ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by helen670


Hi Helen, while I appreciate that your UFO position is that UFO sightings most likely represent biblical mythological entities.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/464fe2453d13.png[/atsimg]

I care less about hypothesizing at this point and more about the process we use to reach a sound conclusion. The study of UFOs is so interesting, because if we create a good way to analyze transient phenomena we then potentially have a method that can help prove things that traditionally science has had no capability to assess (God, ghosts, alien space-crafts, new atmospheric phenomena, etc).

Regards,
-X

[edit on 18-7-2009 by Xtraeme]

reply to post by Xtraeme


Hi Xtraeme/

Thanks for your reply!
I wouldn't say that ALL of the unidentified objects are demonic or Biblical in nature.
From what I am reading on the net and in different forums,it seems that the whole UFO thing could likely be that of a BIG deception by the very people here on earth!
A member here just started this POST IN ~BREAKING NEWS~ or is it NOT just breaking news?
If this is true...talk about DECEPTION to the masses!
All too weird, and this just proves all the more that God is the only one that should be trusted.
Big time prayers and fasting as the early Christians have always said(I know, I sound like a nut case,but I assure you, I am not!)
Too bad VOTING here is compulsory...politicians just satisfy their OWN desires and not the peoples...
And Scripture says....
"When the RIGHTEOUS are in authority,
the people rejoice:but when the WICKED beareth rule,
the people mourn"
(Prov.29:2)...How so very TRUE in Word!

ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by helen670


Dear helen670

From helen670 “All too weird, and this just proves all the more that God is the only one that should be trusted.”

Now that is interesting perhaps you could explain how you would go about trusting GOD.

How do you imagine GOD would get his meaning across to you??

Are you implying that the sightings of UFO’s are the deception??

Or indeed could the deception be from the governments of this world in there refusal to come forward about the truth of such things??

A few years ago there was a documentary series where, Ken Campbell the actor, played a sort of everyman role whilst interviewing scientists from several different fields about their work.

in the final episode Campbell speaks to a Don from Oxbridge who is involved in theoretical maths. About 2/3rds of the way through their conversation, i thought to myself. Blimey, this guy is explaining a mathematical framework that could explain , ghosts, premonitions, UFOs and a few other so called paranormal phenomenon. At the end of the guys explanation Ken Campbell himself, said exactly the same as that i was thinking to the professor. The professor looked shocked and said.. "Oh no, I'm not doing that at all"...

Campbell looked a little stunned and then just smiled and didn;t press the point...

It summed up one of the major problems this sort of research faces. Many scientists simply have absolutely no idea how to contexturalise their theories. The fact is, the professor had done exactly what Campbell and i had thought. He had given a quite clear mechanism which could explain any number of parnomral phenomenion by use of multiverses and string theory.

Sadly, the series hasn't made it onto the web, because i would love to let others see how this genius of guy is so focused he cannot see the wider ramifications of his theory. Every other person i know who saw the programme agreed with Campvbell's view, even those who don't profess to actually believe in such phenomena.

[edit on 2-8-2009 by FireMoon]

I'll give you another classic example of *experts* not being able to see the wood for the trees. Remember back when we sent a probe to study Halley's Comet.? The BBC had a special programme, live on air, hosted by Patrick Moore that included an array of experts and a 13 year old amateur astronomer.


The probe was damaged upon it's approach and there was a discussion amongst the experts as to what had happened. The 13 year old kid made some comment about how it was > "Probably that a small projectile had hit a specific antenna on the probe and thus we were still receiving some data but the damage had killed the other data feed".. The experts all did everything but laugh and proceeded to patronise the young guy, like only scientists can...Of course, the kid was proved to have the reason for the failure of part of the probe's systems, 100% right... Interestingly enough not one of the experts apologised...

reply to post by MAC269


hi MAC/

Of-course God does not talk to me!


I was into all the UFO thing,Astrology,Tarot,seances and the like(I am putting them all under ONE and the same for a good reason!)
One thing that I didn't give up was my prayers before bedtime...every time I would do something of which I considered 'Paranormal'(one of many of my faults), I always made the sign of the Cross(Greek Orthodox)...many people dont truly know the power of the ' sign of the Cross',as see it as being too weird or stupid.
Early Christian Fathers(monk, Elders)knowing that in times of 'Fear' or something of which cannot be explained, made the sign of the Cross and followed it by prayer of the heart *''Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner''*!
Out of humility, the sign of the Cross was done on the body at all times and after and before prayers, and in good and bad situations...as it is done today in Orthodox Christianity.
In Scripture the Lord Jesus Christ will come with a SIGN of the Son of MAN',which is THE CROSS!
A good example is the remembrance of the Crucifixion of the Lord Jesus ,it reminds one that death of the body and this life is temporary,and when one is aware of this, one also remembers their faults/sins and tries to better themselves.
... in Genesis/
Through the laying on of his hands in the form of a cross on his grandsons,
Jacob gave a blessing to his descendants, foretelling at the same time their future until the coming of the "expectation of the nations"
(Genesis, ch. 48)
By the Cross on Golgotha, the prince of this world was cast out (John 12:31)
By the Cross, the Son of God having become man, humbled Himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the Cross (Phil. 2:8).
The "sign of the Son of Man" (Matt. 24:30)..Which will be the coming Day of Judgment Day.

The SIGN of the Cross therefore is very much a WEAPON in Orthodox Christianity....( sorry for going off topic),in order to understand,one must also understand where the understanding comes from.
Although I studied a few books on U.F.O's,I never ever did see one as such.
The Ufo's are always in the skies, never one landing for contact to occur, even if it does,it never is in front of 3 or more witnesses.
The ALIEN being contacts, always seem to occur at night or in isolated cases...demons work like this.
The alien beings ALWAYS seem to know what you are thinking...again, demons work this way with FORTUNE TELLING and give one what they want to hear.
The description is similar as to what Early Church fathers described as demons and how they act to deceive.
There was a case a few years back when a woman came face to face with an alien and he read her thoughts and answered her ''I am your father''(more to the story).
The woman happened to say the Lords prayer in her mind...This case happened in Australia(I had the article but it got lost..Womens weekly?)

Once a person understands that the alien is a demon, they stop appearing as aliens in UFO'S...They appear as what you would want them to be accepted.
One can do this experiment for themselves....The sign of the Cross and a prayer will vanquish demons.
(I have written before in other posts about UFO's)


*the Prayer of the heart(*is similar to meditation as it is said in ones head over and over, till it becomes a constant thought....it is not an easy task as this is done by monks that live a hermit type of life..Mount Athos)

ICXC NIKA
helen

Once a person understands that the alien is a demon, they stop appearing as aliens in UFO'S...They appear as what you would want them to be accepted. One can do this experiment for themselves....The sign of the Cross and a prayer will vanquish demons.

Or, alternatively those who's mindset and comprehension, of the universe, is still stuck, so far in the past and based on superstition and fear feel that, they can only deal with the whole issue by retreating back to the simpler ways of life and viewing anything, *out of the ordinary* as magic and the work of spirits..

reply to post by FireMoon


Hi Fire/

You think I fear DEMONS?

why should I?
Think about it....Are THESE 'aliens' SHY?
One would think after all these years, their shyness should be gone!
Do they have AGAROPHOBIA?
Are they CLAUSTROPHOBIC?
Really, what is up with them and FLASHING lights in the SKIES?

ICXC NIKA
helen

Well if you do not fear then why do you suggest we all wave crosses and start muttering spells?

reply to post by helen670


Dear helen670

Too me the bible is a good example of how a life should be lead.

However it is not an historical document and most defiantly it was not written by GOD.

The Old Testament is effectively the Jewish Bible. The New Testament is a very small collection of writings about a historical figure called Joshua son of Mary. There where many other writings at this time period about the same man that where destroyed nearly completely by the Roman Church under the orders of Constantine a pagan Roman Emperor some 300 AD or so. His motives where control of the Roman Empire and nothing more. The RC Church and all other Christian churches where about control of the population in the beginning and have not changed.

So a life that tries to emulate the life of Joshua son of Mary is a life that is worth while. One can not take what is written about him in the few examples in the New Testament that seriously.

When we examine a subject today we do not just read one book by one author we read many and try and find the truth of what actually happened. The same with News papers they each have there slant.

So why rust a pagan roman emperor who only wanted to retain control over his empire.

We have the same going on today there are sightings of UFO’s and the media is controlled by the emperors of today and so are the boffins. Worse still the boffins in the USA at least are still controlled by the RC Church.

That is why there is room for ATS a place that as far as I know they don’t have control of. YET.

People have need for the Christian Church I know that and I don’t want to tare them away from that belief but I do thing they need to know where it comes from.

reply to post by MAC269


haha

loved the mushroom analogy

reply to post by MAC269


Hi Mac/

Where abouts did you learn all of this?
The Old Testament IS a true History, as many Historians have proven this by the Findings of Old Testament treasures and such.
The New Testament ENDS the period of the OLD and a new life begins.
How can you say that the New Testament supports your idea of Jesus Christ being just another MAN?
It does not make sense because the Old Testament was fulfilled by Jesus Christ.
I can show you Scriptures, but you first need Faith.

ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by helen670


hey

The problem is that jeebus did not write the bible.. any of em.

Man did, and if he was the son of god then why even bother.

Just saying!.. now im off to work have a good night/day! depending on you time zone ofc hehe

reply to post by symmetricAvenger


Hi symmetricAvenger/

I dont know of a jeebus?


of-course God did not put pen to paper!

Mose was given the TEN Commandments....as were many PROPHETS after who spoke with God.
Other then that, there WAS NO oral Law!
AND THERE STILL IS NO ORAL LAW!
There is nothing in SECRET, nothing is HIDDEN and all shall be revealed.
The teachings of the Scribes...And it all came to pass as the Lord Himself had foretold: the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes,
and they shall condemn Him to death,
and shall deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock,
and scourge,
and to crucify Him (Matt. 20:18-19).

HEAR what the Old Testament says in ACCURACY...My people did not hear My voice,
and Israel harkened not to Me ...
They gave Me gall for My food,
and in My thirst they gave Me vinegar to drink ... Let their eyes be darkened,
and their back bend down always.
Pour out Thy indignation upon them: let Thy wrathful anger take hold of them.
Let their habitation be made desolate,
and let there be no One to dwell in their tabernacles,
because they have persecuted Him Whom Thou hast smitten,
and they have added to the grief of My wounds.
Add Thou iniquity upon their iniquity; and let them not come into Thy justice.
Let them be blotted out of the Book of the Living,
and with the Just let them not be written.
Psalm 80:12,68:22-29

And...

You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears,
you always resist the Holy Ghost; as your fathers did,
so do you also.
Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted?
And they have slain them who foretold the coming of the Just One,
of Whom you have now been the betrayers and murderers.
Acts 7:51-52

Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt,
did afterwards destroy those who did not believe ...
Woe unto them!
For they have gone the way of Cain ... carried about by winds ... raging waves of the sea,
foaming out their own confusion,
wandering stars to whom the storm of darkness is reserved forever.
Jude 5:11-13

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Add thou not unto his words,
lest he reprove thee,
and thou be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6
Many translations of the Old and New Testament have been DELIBERATELY falsified to fit into THEIR agenda!
The TRUTH always comes out!

ICXC NIKA
helen