Are people so uneducated as to think the world could function without monetary systems?

I keep reading info from people who think that the world would be a better place if we got rid of all monetary systems. That has to be one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. The only reason I can think of why they would want that is because they have no money, and do not plan on getting any in the near future.

How would we buy anything that was expensive, like a house, a car, another business, etc?

How would the world function without some form of money?

Am I missing some profound sort of knowledge or something?

indidionous tribes from all around the world seemed to cope fine with no money, the entire village shared all recources as well as materials and tools.

I think the uneducated ones cannot see a way of doing it

People will always abuse the system. They look for things to exploit to make their life a little easier. This will be the case if we do away with money. Small societies could work well if we filter out this type of person. But there are simply too many people in the world for this to work on a global scale.

There are a few good arguments as to why and how economies could be resourse based. It would be hard to make it work as the above poster mentioned. However if it did there are a great many advantages and a greater amount of people would live a better quality of life. It is not uneducated or naive or indicative of apathy to strive for these goals or contemplate them.

Originally posted by munkey66
indidionous tribes from all around the world seemed to cope fine with no money, the entire village shared all recources as well as materials and tools.

I think the uneducated ones cannot see a way of doing it

Ok well that might work for a small tribe in the middle of a jungle or rain forest where all they have to buy is some food or materials for a new hut. However, I prefer my modern way of life.

So say I want to buy a 500k house, how am I going to trade for that? What am I going to do, bring 2 cars, a boat, a bunch of nuts and fruit, the dog and cat, my kids, etc to exchange for the house, and even worse what if i want to borrow some of the "stuff" to pay for it?

Do I go to the bank and ask for a bunch of walnuts or wood or something?

Originally posted by Majestic23
There are a few good arguments as to why and how economies could be resourse based. It would be hard to make it work as the above poster mentioned. However if it did there are a great many advantages and a greater amount of people would live a better quality of life. It is not uneducated or naive or indicative of apathy to strive for these goals or contemplate them.

How would people live a better quality of life by not having a monetary system? How would you borrow resources, and then how would you pay them back with interest?

There is nothing wrong with thinking about it, but there is something wrong with not seeing how the world could not function without some sort of monetary system and then going on to think this is a good idea in any way.

The problem as I see it regarding a resource-based economy is simple;-
The world is run on greed and avarice, where the be-all and end-all of life has developed into a 'Whats in it for me' mentality, and the only thing that matters is having more than the other guy.
People are judged not on their person, but on how much they have accumulated in their lives, and this is a totally repugnant system in my opinion, as it lowers everybody to the basest of common denominators, "I've got more than you, that makes me better than you".
There is no way that those with much will ever agree to share with those with less.

Roy.

i think that a resource based economy would be a problem for more technology based countries and international trade.

i imagine trying to buy an ipod with like...100 apples or something. You could do it, its just that money seems more convenient and efficient.

and i dont exactly see how it would eliminate social classes.

the rich would be those with more apples or whatnot.

I have to say, I agree with OP. Money is a necessary evil. It's the best store of value we have right now. A resource based economy is implausible right now as most of us work for money, not resources. Returning to the old way of things, a sort of anarcho-primitivist way of doing things would seem ideal. However, to be ok with that idea is sadly tied in to being ok with decimating the world's population.

Furthermore, organizational behavior is an inescapable facet of human life.
Agriculture is the base upon which most of human civilization stands; You can't have trade without currency and you can't have trade without the geographical and social mobility that agriculture provides.

Easy now, I'm not saying I approve of all aspects of monetary systems or the economic models of doing business which they have bred.

Originally posted by munkey66
indidionous tribes from all around the world seemed to cope fine with no money, the entire village shared all recources as well as materials and tools.

I think the uneducated ones cannot see a way of doing it

And look at their quality of life. If ridding all monetary systems places mankind back in mud huts, then that isn't the way to go.

In the pre-revolution era the American founding fathers came up with a great monetary system! You see the colonials discovered the secret of money and beat it with Colonial Scrip !

During a visit to Britain in 1763, The Bank of England asked Benjamin Franklin how he would account for the new found prosperity in the colonies. Franklin replied. "That is simple. In the colonies we issue our own money. It is called Colonial Script. We issue it in proper proportion to the demands of trade and industry to make the products pass easily from the producers to the consumers. In this manner, creating for ourselves our own paper money, we control its purchasing power, and we have no interest to pay to no one."

In proper proportion to the demands of trade and industry. That is the very secret of money right there. No gold for backing, no silver, not oil backing, not copper. Simply the people's own prosperity backing the money.

I can't believe you posted this since Google can provide a slew of answers but I digress...

There are many alternatives to the modern system to which we are all, currently; slaves (under the guise of being free and earning a living, yada yada)

Some alternatives:

Barter (Bartering is a medium in which goods or services are directly exchanged for other goods and/or services without a common unit of exchange without the use of money).

Local Exchange Trading Systems (LETS) also known as LETSystems are local, non-profit exchange networks in which goods and services can be traded without the need for printed currency.

Local currencies: a local currency, in its common usage, is a currency not backed by a national government (and not necessarily legal tender), and intended to trade only in a small area.

A gift economy (or gift culture) is a society where valuable goods and services are regularly given without any explicit agreement for immediate or future rewards

More: en.wikipedia.org...

My personal favorite (a pipe-dream perhaps) is a Resource-Based Economy.

A system in which all goods and services are available without the use of money, credits, barter or any other system of debt or servitude. All resources become the common heritage of all of the inhabitants, not just a select few. The premise upon which this system is based is that the Earth is abundant with plentiful resource; our practice of rationing resources through monetary methods is irrelevant and counter productive to our survival.

www.thevenusproject.com...

So you see, there are alternatives, there is no reason we must remain in the same destructive system which benefits a few people while at the same time destroying our planet and keeping people in poverty and bondage(slavery).

So to answer the question: Yes, people are uneducated. The system we are currently in bondage to, likes to keep it that way and make people believe it is the only system (since it keeps them in charge and at the top of the pyramid).





[edit on 22-6-2009 by warrenb]

Originally posted by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest

i imagine trying to buy an ipod with like...100 apples or something. You could do it, its just that money seems more convenient and efficient.

It also depends how many iPods or how hungry the other person is. Some of these trades may seem silly but after the initial grab for what we consider expensive items, everything would settle down. People would trade and work for food and building materials. Badly built music players come later.

Originally posted by grapesofraft
How would people live a better quality of life by not having a monetary system?

The current system is flawed in that it produces items needlessy and endlessly to support itself. This is clealry no symbiotic way to live in reality and it is unalanced beyond belief, causing any amount of heartache. SO whats going to happen? We just keep making pointless stuff for eternity, stripping the land of resources?

All we need is food clothing and shelter for everyone to have a chance at least of happiness. Its clear that material desires dont give us anything in the long term, we attain them and then we have to move on.

Originally posted by grapesofraftHow would you borrow resources, and then how would you pay them back with interest?

Interest is the problem! We get an ok house and a nice car for what? To be a slave to the banks. Its fair to say people arent responsible enough to have a non monetary economy but are they responsible enough in a monetary one. Is the government responsible enough to be able to create money out of thin air?

Might I point you in the direction of zeitgeist movement? They have a pretty good vision, not perfect but its worth a look.

Originally posted by grapesofraftThere is nothing wrong with thinking about it, but there is something wrong with not seeing how the world could not function without some sort of monetary system and then going on to think this is a good idea in any way.

Why do you think it would not function? No possibility? You have a fair point of view but can you really not picture it working at all?

reply to post by grapesofraft


Am I detecting a hint of sarcasm here? Why do you need a 500k house? Anyway, there would be no such thing as a 500k house, because there would be no such thing as 500k but that's beside the point. Also, interest would be a thing of the past, why would you still want that?

I'd love to have a resource-based economy but I haven't quite been able to wrap my mind around it yet. I don't think the concept has matured enough at this point. I think the biggest problems though would be in the transition period.

reply to post by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest


Exactly. That is why they invented monetary systems in the first place, because it was more efficient than dragging a back of Apples down to the Apple store to buy an ipod. Then Apple computers has to go into the apple selling business to get rid of all the apples.

Originally posted by royspeed
The problem as I see it regarding a resource-based economy is simple;-
The world is run on greed and avarice, where the be-all and end-all of life has developed into a 'Whats in it for me' mentality, and the only thing that matters is having more than the other guy.
People are judged not on their person, but on how much they have accumulated in their lives, and this is a totally repugnant system in my opinion, as it lowers everybody to the basest of common denominators, "I've got more than you, that makes me better than you".
There is no way that those with much will ever agree to share with those with less.

Greed, avarice, and not judging people based on their goodness are not caused by monetary systems. It is caused by human nature.

It seems to me in this thread some people are having trouble grasping the idea behind a resource bases economy or some other monetary free system. In a resource based economy everything cost nothing, there is no trade and things do not cost 100 apples. If you need groceries you walk into the grocery store pick out your food and walk out, you don't pay for anything. For anyone who would like more information on a resource based economy you can check out www.thevenusproject.com...

We try to attach money to being a "Drive" Source for productivity. Thus by saying you take away the money aspect, everyone becomes lazy and therefore does nothing, which is a grossly false statement.

As well, it can also be the biggest hinderance we have. if said person has the ability and know how to advance in a field beyond what we have, this person can be easily shot down due to a non physical paper wall barrier inwhich will not be passed. Not only that This paper wall acts as a nullifier for advanceing. Why now would such person recommend Product F vs Product A ? Because the paper value given is greater. This does not take into any factor on whether the products are better then one another.

This has been blatant with our media storage for the past several years .. Beta was better then the VCR. HD DVD format was far technologically advanced then Blue Ray. This is one of many factors in several thousands fields and yes this defenetly includes the medical field.

We can create a better Economic system then an age old system that we have now.

reply to post by grapesofraft


yeah i was wondering what would happen with all the produce that goes bad and loses its value before you can find enough people that want it...

wouldnt it just be easier to propose fixing the system of using money?

reply to post by warrenb


Well I guess if you want to be communist then that might work, but who in their right mind would want to be a communist? I dont want to have to share everything. If i work harder or smarter or contribute more of what society places value on then I deserve to be rewarded more than some guy sitting on his couch all day.