Can matter actually exist? Nope!

I remember the story of Samuel Johnson's response to the same sort of idea from I think Spinoza...He kicked a rock and said "I repute it thus." and broke his foot.

Matter may only be a denser cloud of particles but tell that to your little toe at 3 in the morning when you slam it into something trying to get to the bathroom in the dark.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by grover]

Originally posted by grover
I remember the story of Samuel Johnson's response to the same sort of idea from I think Spinoza...He kicked a rock and said "I repute it thus." and broke his foot.

Matter may only be a denser cloud of particles but tell that to your little toe at 3 in the morning when you slam it into something trying to get to the bathroom in the dark.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by grover]

That's just the thing! The pain is nothing but electrical nerves in your brain. Outside of the mind, where is pain? Did the rock feel any pain from the kick? Why?

reply to post by Xtinguish


because of matter

simple really

Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
reply to post by Xtinguish

 

because of matter

simple really

How scientific.

If the pain is being caused by the rock is only existing in your mind, then how can something inside your mind be caused by something outside of your mind. How can a mind-dependent sensation, like pain, manifest itself from a mind-independent thing? If this rock truly exist as this rock, and not just some idea we have of it, then it's properties should be constant in ALL things. No?

Originally posted by Mad Regent

Originally posted by dviper785
i think the initial question is flawed because "real" is subjective to this reality we are in. so, matter would be real in this reality but it wouldn't be in any other reality

How can something not be real in reality? That is a contradiction.

It's not a contradiction, you are merely pointing out a difference in semantics.

What I was trying to say was that reality is this topic, the original argument, is referring to physical reality, as oppose to a possibly less dense, energy based reailty sitting on a differently rotated axis of symmetry making it unviewable from this, physical reality. As oppose to the possibly energy based reality.

Particle/quantum physics and even the concept of symmetry in physics is amazingly complicated to understand at the alternate dimmensional level so for more info look up topics like the standard model, E8 theory of everything, grand unification theory, quantum field theory, elementry particles, and the 4 fundamental forces in the universe.

reply to post by Xtinguish


it all about connection

energy can not be destroyed as they are one of the same thing...

One the level of the atom we use energy.. if you zoom out you get a body..

its all about scale my friend not fuzzy logic

a rock is a rock because that is your reality..

do not question your own being.

If I get run over by a car would you argue that the car was not real ?

I am sure you would not.. why? because that care is made of matter, and matter is a description of a physical object made from atoms..

not hard really is it?

reply to post by Xtinguish


because your not a rock

a rock has no nerves system YOU DO hehe

Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
reply to post by Xtinguish

 

because your not a rock

a rock has no nerves system YOU DO hehe

Ok?

But aren't those nerves the same type of matter that makes up the rock? Is it different? How?

Can the nerves in my body exist without my mind?

Has it crossed anyone minds that before they were any human beings on this planet, dinosaurs had lived for millions of years hmmmm?

Therefore whatever way we decide to perceive the reality, planets and the sun and life was there wayyyy before us in a physical reality we live in.

This physical realm exist whether human beings exist or not, and whether human beings exist to perceive it or not doesn't change anything to is reality, it's not like from day 1 of the existence of the 1st human beings, that suddenly a past of dead and buried dinosaurs, with planets and billions of galaxies were suddenly put into existence...

Thus being said,
The way we perceive this physical reality tho and how we respond subjectively to it, totally influence the way we decide to live and construct our life and societies.

Modern science is what most of us have adopted as a way to see what surround us, but in truth, they are just other ways to perceive this physical reality.

$0.02:

In regards to the question of whether or not you can think of the inconceivable (or something that does not exist), I know this: I had a tooth pulled. I am aware of the spot that the tooth used to be in. Thinking of the spot does not make my tooth reappear, so thinking of a concept does not create the thought of concept in that respect.

As far as why the rock is a rock and people are people even though they are made of the same stuff has to do with how that stuff is arranged and how tightly packed in it is, as well as a number of other things that were being taught in basic science courses waaayyy back in the '90's.

*also, yes your nerves can exist without your mind. Warning! Your ability to perceive things through those nerves may be diminished with increasing distance!

**and i dont think I get the question about the two guys.. 1 going 3 miles an hour is obviously going faster... but not only that, he's only going 1 mile!



[edit on 23-8-2009 by ganja]

Reply to post by Xtinguish

I believe you may have confused yourself friend!

It is not that matter does not exist without the mind. It is that perception does not exist!


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Xtinguish


well no because they belong to you?

Matter is Real.. its a word.. a description of a physical object..

Atoms are a collection that at REAL that from your physical reality.. FACT

Now.. on the other hand we have energy.. this is the other side of the equation..

BUT we have the thing that made BOTH ... this is what we are looking for..

What made engery AND matter ... you see?

CERN is one project that is going on to find the HIGGS partical aka "GOD" partical..

The only problem is YOU can not FIND what its is

And do you why?

YOU ARE IT

ironic to say the least.....

just want to edit this..

You are the reason for the universe ...

you are a function of it.. with out YOU there is NOTHING

Every person on this planet CREATES A UNIVERSE

why?

because that is how its meant to be..

are your prospectives the same as mine? NO do you share the same dimension as me ? YES

do you ever stop to think WHY that happens?

even tho its in your power to do so? OR shall you question your very being and ignore the BASIC facts that are looking right at you

look at a tree...

Does a tree as why it is a tree? HMM? NO they do not BUT they do function just like humans..

They GROW .. WE GROW

BUT what is the difference that counts?? the tree KNOWS its a tree

Humans on the other hand DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE

confused .. is what you are

Some.. on the other hand understand the role you play ..

They use you... why? because they can and they like you all to be calm.. and DUMB

Matter is real and this is not a joke

[edit on 23-8-2009 by symmetricAvenger]

Great thread! OP- way to do a first thread! just looove all things quantum physics

SymmetricAvenger, your posts are gibberish and you were arrogant to the extreme from your very first post and it just got worse from there.

If you want to join in maybe try not making out you aren't human that you don't live on Earth and that you are somehow free of emotions? all that stuff takes away from what you're trying to say and makes you sound crazy- you have maybe just even watched too much tv but whatever the case you are disturbing a really interesting thread for me, I could just put you on ignore but somehow I feel sorry for you that you are so confused- just try to explain what you're saying without the attitude huh

reply to post by lifecitizen

SymmetricAvenger, your posts are gibberish and you were arrogant to the extreme from your very first post and it just got worse from there.

Im sorry if the truth hurts, I may come across as agrogant because some people do not understand or even want to understand..

let me show you.. how arrogant you are shall i?

You have no clue WHY you are here You Put your faith in WHAT? god? when the very word it self is biblical.. you WANT to have a better planet but you do not know WHY

look our your window? do you think this is a joke? because your on ats and you find me arrogant?

I find that ironic to say the least...

The topic at hand was IS MATTER REAL

and i said YES IT IS.. and the reason why it is IS THE WORD used

its like asking if a duck is a duck... its kinda a very big give away

and if you want to roll off the edge of the world and pretend its flat and aliens and god are going to save you from your self fine

but here "in reality" im very happy to point out LOGIC to you

so yes i am arrogant do you know why?

I have a brain and i like to use it.

Now if you wish to insult me about my comments feel free to do so but i would much rather you comment on the topic and not how i talk

thank you...

reply to post by lifecitizen


and just to note....

I am smarter than you And i know why your are here

did i scare you? do you feel small? am i better than you?

answer me this question...

what will you ask god?

and think of this also

When god sat on his throne be for he made the universe

what did he do first?

very logical question i am sure you can work it out.. if not .. well i guess i am smarter than you

correct? or you can just be a smarty pants and say something off topic about the very question that was in relation to is matter real

if matter was not real the word not be real now would it?

its a description of physical reality

its not very hard.. unless your crazy ..

and no im not from EARTH .. its a part time job .. lol life is so very boring but you guys are very very entertaining

have a nice life ./.

reply to post by Xtinguish


Please understand a rock is not a life form...

you are confusing scale with .. well basic reality..

atoms make matter matter is YOU and the rock.. the rock does not need to know its a rock IT IS A ROCK

you question your own being for what? tell me if you had the chance to ask god or whoever put you here a question what would it be?

Dear lord my name is xxx And i want to know why im alive..

do you what god will say?

your lucky you got the chance to ask what you are


do you think that is a clue?

humans 1) stupid 2) ungrateful 3) love to know why why why...

and the funny part is

the answer to life is the very question you ask

YOU are the answer to life "you being here"

for every galaxy that is in the sky is YOU

you are a universe.. im sure by now you would have worked that part out.. or maybe not.

we did not ask to be here... you did not make the universe

did you? because if you did ill call you master.. and trust me it has no name

I just typed out a long response to you Avenger but eff it you wont hear me- you are an idiot that's it in a nutshell.
I'm not sure what your problem is but I should have just ignored you, I even showed you compassion- more fool is me.

Sorry everyone, no more responses from me- will just continue reading and keep my mouth shut.

Someone mentioned What the Bleep, good stuff I loved that- have the whole series with scientist interviews and stuff, very interesting! pseudo science maybe but interesting all the same.

edit, spell error

[edit on 24-8-2009 by lifecitizen]

reply to post by lifecitizen


Ah the joy of insults.... lets leave it at that shall we.. back to the topic at hand!

Matter in on its self is a description of a physical object...

Its not hard is it?

If matter was not real you would not be here... or typing on your computer

Its about scale... most people still think atoms are round lol

reply to post by Psychonaughty


In order for the universe to continue

very simple really

that is why we have kids and stuff you know.. ect ect

Life is the GOOD part : )

its keeps IT all going

lets look at this in a mathematical way shall we, lets leave out god and aliens ..

You was created = 1

we know this because YOU and ME are the PROOF ok?

so we know we was made then comes catch 22 WHY

As i stated many posts be for ... the reason for this little cracker of a word is because its only a function of the bigger picture as i can show.

When or IF who ever created THIS thing...what did IT do first?

it asked WHY and the outcome of this little gem was YOU

Do the cells in your body ask why are they cells in your body?
Does a tree as why it is a tree?

NO and do you know why that is? because they have a different way of asking questions

a question is a function in of its self but to understand what it is, is another thing

Thats why we have QP because some people like me understand that the very question you are asking is indeed the very answer

Because in order to get an answer one must ask

yin yang ... i really do hate to sound like some old guy but its basic as 1+1 "to some"

you my friend did not created the universe nor will you ever understand WHY because if you did YOU would be god "or whatever"

so it would be pointless to think this

The only reason for infinity is YOU the only reason why we are looking for the higgs partical is YOU

YOU are the Higgs partical

Kinda hard trying to find your self i must admit.. but its funny to watch

and when people say "can matter be real"

The very word in the topic is the biggest clue do you not think?

considering you are using the WORD itself to question IT

i find that funny..

learning and understanding of what you are and WHY you are here will soon become apparent.

and here is a little interesting part for you

were will humans be in mm say oh i dunno 1 billion years?

still trying to find the answer to the question?

you bet ... just like aliens "some"

but some just get on with the job of being here its a lot more fun and your race does not VANISH

being stupid is one thing being arrogant is another.

And for all the people who post about QP .. i think you need to understand what it is .. not what it says

applied math is not the same as physics in this regard.

YOU are the outcome of an equation that is LOGIC the other side of this little coin is called CHAOS

the chaos is THE VERY QUESTION "or at least the action of such"

MIND has no shape
Universe has no shape

do you not see the connection here?

You live inside SOMEONES mind or somethings.. get use to it