Flight 3407 | What happend?

What happened to Colgan Air Flight 3407?

Beverly Eckert a 9/11 activist was on that flight, she met Obama weeks before she died.

I find it very strange she asked Obama if he would re-open 9/11 investigation and he said "yes" than she dies.

Now 9/11 investigation is closed and Obama warns people not to question the official story

So, what's the dillio? Did Obama kill her?

Interesting. I did not know about this chain of events. I have been curious about the strange "do not question" comment he made.

reply to post by dino1989


Uh - suggested tighten tin foil hat....

NTSB has found no indication of sabotage/terrorism. Evidence pointing to
icing on wing/control surfaces combined with flight crew inexperienced
with handling conditions. Also plane was turboprop which unlike true
jet aircraft lacks the ability to rapidly climb up or down out of icing
layer

So Barack Obama is warning people not to question 911's official story. I get the feeling it's more of a threat. Does anyone know how the woman died? I think our presidents last name should be spelled Obushma and not Obama given his actions thus far.

reply to post by ablue07


Oops! I see now that she was killed in the plane crash sorry about that.

reply to post by thedman

Evidence pointing to
icing on wing/control surfaces combined with flight crew inexperienced
with handling conditions.

Also, the Pilot's Operating Handbook specifically states Not to use the AutoPilot when in icing conditions. The Captain ignored that restriction.

And, that model airplane incorporates a "stick pusher" system when an impending stall is detected. The Captain seemed to be unaware/not properly trained in its operation. It looks like he panicked, tried to bring the nose up, and aggravated the stall, resulting in the roll-over and crash (they were at low altitude, on final approach).

It was just a tragic co-incidence that woman was on board. There are far less spectacular ways to do away with someone!!!

www.nj.com...
''initial reports said the plane was held up due to mechanical problems''


The MSM had fingered fatigue as the main culprit that caused the pilot error.  But there is NO direct evidence that fatigue had anything to do with it.  Did the MSM tell you what the witnesses on the ground heard?



NTSB Dockets, File 431227--witness statements

pg2 of 131
Vicki Braun
...plane engine had ''echo sound'' then sounded like the engine stopped then heard a ''boom.''

pg6 of 131
Shannon Alessandra
Just prior to the airplane crashing, the engines made a ''weird sound.''

pg7 of 131
Jean Andreassen
Andreassen stated that she heard strange noises from the engines

pg8 of 131
Kristen and Aaron Archambeault
They both described the engine noise as ''sputtering''

pg11 of 131
Michele Beiter
Michele stated the noise 'skipped' and she was relieved it stopped, and then it started again. Michel is positive there was a skip. Michele further described everthing she heard as, 'Noise, skip, noise, loud noise.'

pg13 of 131
Robert Bijak
The engines sounded like a metallic rattle and remined Bijak of a car engine with no oil in it.

pg14 of 131
Tin Bojarski
The plane did not sound right and sort of sounded like a car with a broken muffler.

pg17 of 131
Ronald Braunscheidel
...he heard a very loud spitting and sputtering sound of a plane engine flying overhead. Braunscheidel described the noise as a car without a muffler.

pg 18 of 131
Sharon Brennan
Brennan believed the plane was... maybe in trouble based on the noise.

pg28 of 131
Dan Cizdziel
...heard a sputtering, binging noise....

pg42 of 131
Doug Errick
Errick indicated that as the plane got closer the engines became very rough. Errick thought the engines were coming on and off, almost like engines were trying to come back on, but couldn't remain running. Errick thought the engines were changing RPMs rapidly.

pg49 of 131
Mary Grefrath
Grefrath recalled that the engine sounded like it was spuddering.

pg66 of 131
Jean Larocque
Larocque... stated he heard puttering plane... Larocque reported that the engines were not making a uniform sound.

pg 77 of 131
Molly Merlo
...she heard the airplane make a ''gurgling'' sound.

pg81 of 131
Marianne Neri
The engine noise did not sound like a normal plane, but more like a helicopter. It was obvious something was wrong with the engines.

pg85 of 131
Angela Pillo
The sound was very loud and ''rough,'' as if the engine was having trouble. The sound was further described as sounding like a ''lawn mower''

pg91 of 131
Lisa Rott
....she heard a consistent low grumbling sound that she believed to be a propeller plane. Rott advised that the sound the plane's engines was not smooth and did not sound like other propeller planes that she has heard in the past.

pg96 of 131
Kenneth Smith
...heard a big bang then continued to hear the sound of airplane engines.

pg89 of 131
Joseph Summers
...heard a plane which was very low and didn't sound normal. Mr. Summers cited a ''rambling noise'' which sounded as if an engine was not running properly.

pg101 of 131
Rick Telfair
Telfair stated he then heard a winding or grinding noise, then a screeching or grinding noise and approximately 20-30 seconds later heard a large boom... Telfair further described the noise of the engine as fighting, almost as though they were trying to go faster but couldn't, not accelerating but distressed.

pg 102 of 131
Denise Trabucco
Trabucco described the sound as a humming, similar to a transformer prior to it blowing. Aafter the humming, Trabucco heard a popping sound. ... About a minute after the humming and popping sound, Trabucco and her family felt a vibration that felt a little like an earthquake.

pg105 of 131
Lorraine Unverzart
The airplane engines made a ''chugging'' sound, similar to a ''spark plug misfiring.''

pg106 of 131
Louis Vitello
...he heard the plane engines sputtering as it approached, and then heard a ''popping sound.'' Immediately after that Mr. Vitello heard ''grinding'' noised, stating that the noises reminded him of gears grinding together, sounding like the gears were missing teeth.

pg124 of 131
David Wolf
...the engines were making an unusual ''shuttering'' sound

pg126 of 131
Melissa Wols
She stated she heard the plane.... grinding and sputtering as it approached and passed over his residence. Wols advised it sounded similar to what grinding metal would sound like.

pg129 of 131
Rita Zirnheld
It ''sounded like spttering'' and ''engine was coughing.''

pg130 of 131
Barbara Garrett
She said the plane engine was making loud noises, as though metal was banging and clattering.

[edit on 10-2-2010 by starviego]

[edit on 10-2-2010 by starviego]

reply to post by starviego


Instead of quoting from year news article to further your conspiracy
fantasy perhaps should quote from NTSB findings released last week

Washington, DC - The National Transportation Safety Board determined that the captain of Colgan Air flight 3407 inappropriately responded to the activation of the stick shaker, which led to an aerodynamic stall from which the airplane did not recover. In a report adopted today in a public Board meeting in Washington, additional flight crew failures were noted as causal to the accident.

On February 12, 2009, a Colgan Air, Inc., Bombardier DHC-8- 400, N200WQ, operating as Continental Connection flight 3407, was on an instrument approach to Buffalo-Niagara International Airport, Buffalo, New York, when it crashed into a residence in Clarence Center, New York, about 5 nautical miles northeast of the airport. The 2 pilots, 2 flight attendants, and 45 passengers aboard the airplane were killed, one person on the ground was killed, and the airplane was destroyed by impact forces and a postcrash fire. The flight was a 14 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Part 121 scheduled passenger flight from Newark, New Jersey. Night visual meteorological conditions prevailed at the time of the accident.
The report states that, when the stick shaker activated to warn the flight crew of an impending aerodynamic stall, the captain should have responded correctly to the situation by pushing forward on the control column. However, the captain inappropriately pulled aft on the control column and placed the airplane into an accelerated aerodynamic stall.

Contributing to the cause of the accident were the Crewmembers’ failure to recognize the position of the low-speed cue on their flight displays, which indicated that the stick shaker was about to activate, and their failure to adhere to sterile cockpit procedures. Other contributing factors were the captain’s failure to effectively manage the flight and Colgan Air’s inadequate procedures for airspeed selection and management during approaches in icing conditions.

www.ntsb.gov...

I was not quoting from some news article. I was quoting witnesses, or, as I like to call them--THE PEOPLE THAT WERE ACTUALLY THERE AND HEARD WHAT HAPPENED.

Originally posted by starviego
THE PEOPLE THAT WERE ACTUALLY THERE AND HEARD WHAT HAPPENED.

So, what do they think happened? What do YOU think happened?

Well, if almost 30 people on the ground near the crash site hear the engines sound like they are malfunctioning, then just MAYBE mechanical problems brought down the plane. Which means that the NTSB is probably lying to us. It's a cover-up. A conspiracy to cover-up.


Why did this occur? Just like big pharma is in bed with the FDA, the airline industry is way too chummy with the FAA. Thus the corruption might be so ingrained that when an air disaster occurs, the main objective of investigators is not the truth, but protecting the industry--the manufacturers and the carriers--and try to blame isolated individuals. And all the better when those blamed are dead and cannot defend themselves.



[edit on 10-2-2010 by starviego]

Originally posted by dino1989
So, what's the dillio? Did Obama kill her?

I just find it absolutely incredible how these conspiracy people will grasp any straw, any straw at all, to keep their conspiracy stories alive. All these damned fool conspiracy websites are pushing out every concievable moonbat conspriacy to the point where Alex Jones "predicted" the 9/11 attack, Richard Gage is holding conferences in Japan, and Dylan Avery is putting out THREE editions of Loose Change, and yet the "secret world order" is completely ignoring all these loudmouths and is instead going around "accidentally deathing" these people we've never heard of before.

This is supposed to be the mark of a "truth" movement?!? It's sounds like the mark of desperation from defending an undefendable position, to me.

deleted by poster

[edit on 10-2-2010 by starviego]

reply to post by starviego


Usual truther gibberish spouting off about conspiracy ...

So the NTSB is involved because it doesn't feed your conspiracy fantasy ?

Who else is involved in this?

One more thing - forsenic evidence trumps eye (or in this case ear ewitnesses) NTSB used the evidence gathered from the flight and cockpit recorders to form their conclusions

Investigators know that witnesses are often inconsistant and contradictory

Thats why often rely on forsenic data from data recorders as they give
in words of Joe Friday "Just the facts" and not opinions

You guys should of watched Frontline last night. They pretty much summed up the entire f3407, Colgan Air catastrophe.

If there is a conspiracy there it is that it appears Colgan is run by a bunch of slave driving, profit whores. It seems that Colgan is perfectly happy putting guys in the captain seat with less hours than Hani...think about that for a second.

Here's the link to the full episode "Flying Cheap"

www.pbs.org...

Originally posted by thedman
- forsenic evidence trumps eye (or in this case ear ewitnesses) NTSB used the evidence gathered from the flight and cockpit recorders to form their conclusions

You assume all that 'technical' evidence is accurate. But there have been numerous crime/forensics lab scandals, where the 'experts' were caught making up evidence to favor the prosecutors.

Originally posted by Personal Choice
You guys should of watched Frontline last night. They pretty much summed up the entire f3407, Colgan Air catastrophe.

They just repeated the official version that fatigue had something to do with it. But there is NO direct evidence that fatigue was the cause for the pilot error.

Originally posted by thedman
Who else is involved in this?

Well, it is known that Israeli's took an unusual personal interest in this crash--

www.ynetnews.com...
The names of two Israelis appeared on the passenger list....
Ruth Harel-Katz, 52, a resident of the United States, and 27-year old George Abu-Karem from Tiberias, were both killed in the crash.
The Foreign Ministry told Ynet that a representative from the Israeli Consulate in New York was on his way to the crash site in order to validate the information.

www.zaka.us...
A team of six ZAKA volunteers, members of the ZAKA International Rescue Unit and headed by Mati Goldstein, left Israel this evening for Buffalo, New York. The volunteers will assist the local emergency personnel and volunteers and will work in cooperation with Rabbi Jack Meir of Misaskim USA, in the recovery and identification of the victims...

it's a tricky turbojet to fly at low speeds...i't's weak...i never heard those witnesses before, i wish i knew exactly what it sounded like. now i think somethings up, all those witnesses agreed

reply to post by PersonalChoice


Thank you. Personal, for that link.

We in the airline industry are well aware of the events that led to that tragic accident.

No 'conspiracy' needed.

When trying to invoke 9/11, no matter how tenuous the alleged 'connection'....is an act of extreme desperation.

Another ATS thread about the MetroRail train crash, here in DC, that killed a former ANG officer out of Andews AFB (and his wife, among seven others) was attempting also to conflate tragic human-error accidents with some imagined 'conspiracy' --- yet all other accidents that kill people - people who have no connections whatsoever with 9/11 - are ignored.

Paranoia is not a pretty trait....