'Ultracool subdwarf' stars speeding through Milky Way

Originally posted by spinalremain
It wasnt a video I watched. It was a scientific website that explained that the sun was exactly in the true center of the gallactic plane in the year 1998 and has been slowly moving above it. From what I can tell; there are 2 school's of thought on this. Some state that we are going to be alligned with the sun and the center in 2012 not only from our perspective but in reality on the same plane. And there are those that state we have already done so and that were currently above the plane. Rather still in the plane but slightly above center. I'm not scientist with diagnostic hardware to do the calculations so I'm basically confused. Im going to do some more reasearch and see if I can find some definitive answers. Have we crossed the gallactic plane yet? Shouldnt be so many conflicting theories on something that can be measured.

Do you have a link to it? I seen a video that showed the alignments back in the 90's, I thought you had seen the same one.

I came across a site that showed us well beyond the galactic plane. I think I'll see if I can locate it, it's been probably over a year since I looked at it.

I'd be interested if it was true we have recently crossed the galactic plane. I just never came across anything that said that, only ever seen mention of the alignments.

Dude I'm sorry I just looked for it and couldn;t find it. I remember the author/scientist was adamant about the sun having already passed through the true galactic center though. I believe it was in 98. Im upset now because I can't find it. Seems like nobody knows for sure other wise there would be 1 answer. Also seems to me that a lot of people dont understand what the galactic center plane is as Im seeing everyone talk about black holes as if the Earth will be actually in the center rather than aligned with the galactic equator. If you can, please try to clear this up. Where the hell is the sun right now in respect to the galactic equator? Ppl keep stating that in 2012 we will be aligned with it, but others say were already above it. AAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Were lost

This site says we bounce.

www.universetoday.com...

And here it says no way to know when it will go through the plane, but then at the same times says a cycle of 64 million years. That doesn't make sense to me. How can you know 64 million years and yet not know when it will happen?

www.universetoday.com...

If it bobs, then that means there is a wave force somewhere. Like you would be in a boat on the ocean. That doesn't make sense to me. And if there is a wave, then there is a frequency to it. I would have thought we would hear more about some force with a frequency to it, as well as what causes it. Atleast a theory.

So I dunno. All I see are conflicting things all over. What I said above makes sense to me, but if we are actually bouncing up and down then it means our orbit around the black hole is more like a roller coaster than the normal straight lines every other orbit we know of does.


[edit on 16-6-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


www.universetoday.com...




This one says theres no way to know when it will happen??? Jeeez. Does anybody know?

lol we were on the same one

reply to post by badmedia


Exactly! Were bobbing up and down and it takes 64 million years to complete the preverbial "bob" Now, the other guy said that we arent bobbing. That the sun only crosses the plane 2wice per revolution because the orbit is offset. If thats true then the galactic orbit would take 128 million years which it doesnt. That being said, we do in fact bob up and below the galactic equator more that 2wice per galactic year right? And what the hell is making the Sun bob up and down like that? Thats not a normal gravitational influence. It stays in galactic orbit while bobbing up and down like in the ocean wave like you said. Im so confused now man. At least Im not alone now

[edit on 16-6-2009 by spinalremain]

reply to post by spinalremain


Yeah, like I said I'm not expert in this stuff, I've only been checking into it out of my own personal curiousity. But I am a pretty fast learner and catch on to things fast usually.

The orbital motion like Pluto is the only thing that makes sense to me. In order for it to bobble like that article says, then something has to cause it to bobble. And I've never heard anything regarding any theory that talks about such a force being present. Doesn't mean they don't exist, just that I've never heard of it, and I would think it would be something that was major news.

I seen another place that said it was 88 million year cycle and so forth. I'm still not sure about the bouncing deal. I think perhaps maybe people are just looking at in 2D, which is in relation to the position of the earth to the galactic plane, which in that view it does seem to "bounce". But when you take into account the entire orbit around the black hole, then you can get that same up and down effect like I described earlier with the pluto example. And then it makes sense and there is no special conditions involved.

I think I'll try and check into it some more if I get the time. I'm kind of curious about it.

Ok, I came across a pdf that I think will solve the issue for us. It looks like I was wrong, as apparently the galaxy does not follow Keplers laws, as the mass is apparently not distributed in a spherical way like the sun is.

So that means what I said about Pluto was wrong. Keplers laws do actually still apply, so it would be that we do that, but there are other objects out there with big mass that pull on the sun as well, and those objects somehow cause the bounce.

The Solar System and its Place in the Galaxy

pc = parsec, and 1 pc = 19 million miles or 3.26 light years.

As for the galactic plane, this says what I read before, that we are not near the galactic plane currently. We are between 10-20 pc's above the galactic plane. The max range of how far off we get from the plane is between 49 and 93 pc's away. And it crosses the plane between 52 and 74 million years.

We are heading away from the plane and have been for about 2 or 3 million years.

The huge ranges of difference there is because apparently dark matter is involved in the mass that affects the sun. And they don't know how exactly it affects things.

It does mention a way comets can get worse and all that. Other stars can get close to our sun. Our sun moves slowly across the galaxy compared to most of the other stars, so sometimes they come pretty close to us. It says a star will come to about 1pc far away(about 3.5 light years) on average of about every 1 million years. But it says the closest they would expect one in the lifetime of the solar system is 900 AU. Which is 900 times the distance from the earth to the sun. That would be pretty close and it's comets would be in reach and so forth increasing the rate of them hitting planets etc. And it would last for like millions of years.

It goes on about we are in an interstellar cloud and such.

Thanks for bringing up that and making me question it, I learned a good bit from it.

Oh, and I did come across things that talked about 1998, but it was about the alignment and said it was the closest alignment, not 2012.



[edit on 17-6-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


Right on. How could I not question it? Theres multiple theories from hundreds of scientists as to where we actually are along with many ppl on this forum swearing that they are scientists and that they know everything. Like you I'm no scientist but very bright and seek the truth and can usually pick it up rather quickly. I'm glad you found that pdf. It was pretty informative. Unfortunately though, all those sites still state that there are many variables that aren't perfectly understood and that certain things just aren't known. It kinda adds to the mystery of the universe I suppose. Personally, I think the Sun bouncing is stranger than David Icke saying the Bush family are lizards

Originally posted by spinalremain

Right on. How could I not question it? Theres multiple theories from hundreds of scientists as to where we actually are along with many ppl on this forum swearing that they are scientists and that they know everything.
......................

If that was directed at me, I never claimed to know everything... I gave information of unexplained phenomenon which is affecting comets, as well as every planet in the Solar System.

Whatever it is that is causing the increase in the distance between the planets in our Solar System and the Sun, could also very well be the reason for the Climate Change which Earth and several planets, and even moons with an atmosphere have been experiencing at the same time that Earth has, and this could also be why the Sun is acting the way it has been doing.

Nothing that either you, or the other member posted can explain this phenomenon.

You just said neither one of you are scientists, and scientists are perplexed for what is the cause of these phenomenon, and they say and I quote

there are no explanations able to accommodate such an observed phenomenon, either in the realm of classical physics or in the usual four-dimensional framework of the Einsteinian general relativity.

[edit on 29-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


I'm pretty sure it was directed at me.

As well, it's not what you presented that I take issue with regarding the fast stars. It's that you used it as being proof of possibility of nibiru I drew issue with. Again, Nibiru is said to be part of this solar system, so it would be subject to keplers laws. Only if Nibiru wasn't part of our solar system could such be true.

I've seen the Nibiru story change so many times. Now I keep hearing it's "stealth" and part of "dark matter" and so that is why we can't see it yet. Which is completely against what used to be said, with it's red "wings" of fire and so forth.

People are not looking for truth, they are looking for ways to prove what they believe is already true. Such is to promote ignorance.

reply to post by badmedia



Almost everyday we learn something new about the Universe, our Solar System, and even our own planet that once was thought to be impossible.

You are the one who wants to believe nomatter what that there is no possibility for such a companion star to exist, and you give the excuse that it must be bound by the laws that we know of. In this case you assume it must be bound by Kepler's law, yet there are things occurring in the Solar System that can't be explained, not even by Kepler's law.

Not too long ago Earth's magnetic field produced two very large breach in a manner scientists did not think was possible, because it went against everything they thought they knew. They thought it could not happen because they were wrong in their assumption that they know everything there is to know about the Earth's magnetic field, or even what could affect it in this manner.

These unexplained phenomenon I gave evidence of are not glitches. Scientists don't know what is causing them, but something is causing it. Whateve it is, it's affecting physically the planets, satellites, and even comets.




[edit on 30-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by badmedia

I'm pretty sure it was directed at me.
.............

About this comment, he was responding to you, but that was not directed at you. I clarified that I never claimed to know everything.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


hey settle down guys. I wasnt directing it at either of you. I was merely stating that ppl without credentials say this and that. If I had a personal beef with you I would say so. Easy

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by badmedia

 

Almost everyday we learn something new about the Universe, our Solar System, and even our own planet that once was thought to be impossible.

You are the one who wants to believe nomatter what that there is no possibility for such a companion star to exist, and you give the excuse that it must be bound by the laws that we know of. In this case you assume it must be bound by Kepler's law, yet there are things occurring in the Solar System that can't be explained, not even by Kepler's law.

Kepler's laws are mostly accurate. The principles behind it are generally right, or "close enough for government work". There are other factors which can set it off, but not in the amounts you are talking about here.

But when the object is said to be part of our solar system, then it is going to follow Kepler's laws pretty close. We know the mass of the sun, and so in order for objects to be a part of our solar system, then they have to be at certain speeds and distances, also depending on their mass. If it's too fast and such, then it leaves the suns gravitational pull. No different than the same principles as putting a rocket into space. Are there thing that we don't understand, like the probes speeding up etc? Yes, but not by some huge amount or anything.

It's not so much a binary star or a planet X that I'm "against", it's what people say about them that I take issue with. For example the 2012 dates and so forth. 2012 and nibiru aren't even from the same cultures for example. There are some things which just aren't possible. Even the person who is the expert on nibiru doesn't have it happening in 2012. If there are physics we don't know, then fine. But you can't use lack of knowledge as proof, while at the same time saying all we know is by default false as a result.

The Mayan thing came out with 2012 stuff. Now every other theory out there from aliens, to nibiru, to the 2nd coming of christ and so forth have all attached themselves to it.

Not too long ago Earth's magnetic field produced two very large breach in a manner scientists did not think was possible, because it went against everything they thought they knew. They thought it could not happen because they were wrong in their assumption that they know everything there is to know about the Earth's magnetic field, or even what could affect it in this manner.

These unexplained phenomenon I gave evidence of are not glitches. Scientists don't know what is causing them, but something is causing it. Whateve it is, it's affecting physically the planets, satellites, and even comets.

Lack of evidence is not proof that current knowledge is wrong, nor is it proof that your theory is right. Ok so they didn't know. How long have they been studying it? Maybe it's happened many times in the past and we just didn't know about it. Doesn't mean the end of the world is coming, doesn't mean there is by default a binary star, or a planet X, or anything else. It is said - unknown cause for a reason.

Good luck finding the truth, I'm not trying to be a party pooper or anything, but we have to be able to examine things carefully and rule out what is fiction in order to do that.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by badmedia

I'm pretty sure it was directed at me.
.............

About this comment, he was responding to you, but that was not directed at you. I clarified that I never claimed to know everything.

I'm not upset or anything. I had interest in this topic, still do and so forth. I'm looking for truth in things as well, and I've spent a decent amount of time looking into it. If there are these kinds of things out there, then they won't be acting in ways that are completely opposite of known physics.

reply to post by badmedia


I completely agree with you. That's why I was asking you questions and discussing the bobbing motion of the Sun. It still bugs me everyday. I just can't understand why it does that. The thing is, if the scientists and astronomers and mathemeticians don't know why then how can we rule anything out? Do you know if all stars revolve around their respective galaxies in such a bobbing fashion?

reply to post by spinalremain


But we can't use science when it fits our preconceived notions, and then dismiss it when it doesn't. I think the error in the OP is that he is only looking for data that promotes what he already believes is true, rather than looking at the data to find out what is true.

There very well may be a big planet X out there and so forth, I have no idea. But I do know that if it's part of our solar system, then it's going to follow certain laws and such. I've done the math before, and even while traveling at high speeds, because of the distances themselves the time it would take for those objects to be anywhere near us is still way too long.

For example. If Jupiter was to suddenly change it's orbit today and head directly to the sun. It would still take it more than 3 years for it to reach the sun - and that is while using the speed of mercury, which means it would really speed up in the process - IE: I gave it a ton of leeway in the calculations and that number is based towards fastest possible scenario(impossible by known physics though).

If there are unknown physics, then fine so be it. But we can't use that as proof that what someone believes is true, claiming that the physics are false, and then use other parts of science as "proof" of those claims.

[edit on 7/8/2009 by badmedia]

Another article about the possibility of such a large planet, or body in the Solar System.

Large 'Planet X' May Lurk Beyond Pluto
By Ker Than,LiveScience
Posted: 2008-06-19 17:56:30
Filed Under: Science News

(June 19) - An icy, unknown world might lurk in the distant reaches of our solar system beyond the orbit of Pluto, according to a new computer model.


The hidden world -- thought to be much bigger than Pluto based on the model -- could explain unusual features of the Kuiper Belt, a region of space beyond Neptune littered with icy and rocky bodies. Its existence would satisfy the long-held hopes and hypotheses for a "Planet X" envisioned by scientists and sci-fi buffs alike.

"Although the search for a distant planet in the solar system is old, it is far from over," said study team member Patryk Lykawka of Kobe University in Japan.

The model, created by Lykawka and Kobe University colleague Tadashi Mukai, is detailed in a recent issue of Astrophysical Journal.

If the new world is confirmed, it would not be technically a planet. Under a controversial new definition adopted by the International Astronomical Union (IAU) last week, it would instead be the largest known "plutoid."

The Kuiper Belt contains many peculiar features that cant be explained by standard solar system models. One is the highly irregular orbits of some of the belts members.

The most famous is Sedna, a rocky object located three times farther from the sun than Pluto. Sedna takes 12,000 years to travel once around the Sun, and its orbit ranges from 80 to 100 astronomical units (AU). One AU is equal to the distance between the Earth and the Sun.

Possible Planet X



[edit on 17-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by badmedia

I'm not upset or anything. I had interest in this topic, still do and so forth. I'm looking for truth in things as well, and I've spent a decent amount of time looking into it. If there are these kinds of things out there, then they won't be acting in ways that are completely opposite of known physics.

Again you are claiming that everything that exists in the universe must be "completely understood by our known physics"...

Sorry, but you are once again wrong, we are constantly learning that things can occur which differ from what we thought with our current understanding of science. Such a similar event were the breaches which occurred on Earth's magnetic field which left scientists baffled because they formed in ways that their scientific understanding made them "claim" could not occur.

The Universe, and everything in it doesn't have to "abide by man's laws, and science" more so when we still need a lot of learning to do...