What is obfuscation?

obfuscation:
the process of darkening or obscuring so as to hinder ready analysis.

I placed this thread under current events because this is currently taking place all over ATS. ATS is suppose to be a place where open-minded people discuss open subjects and denying ignorance from seeping into the process.

However, this happens all the time on ATS. There is nothing you can do about people disagreeing. But we can have more respect for ourselves and others by opening up our mind to what the point is that is being asserted. Too fast do we all go into "defense mechanism" and start defending our point of views to the point of missing another's. This is not a place for arduous debate with no outcome. It is a place to discuss alternative ideas and consider the point of view that you are in dialogue with.

It is my belief that the moment our minds begin arguing from an emotional place, we ground out our rationale and logic. No one can force us to change our opinions, so we should quit acting like it.

Example thread of not Denying Ignorance.

This above thread is a great example of obfuscation and inconsideration of another member. Not once did the guilty member show or entertain the gravity of what is presented, only merely began picking away the credibility of the source, also adding condescending remarks and placation.

When this member in question thought he was exposing the insignificance of the thread and source, he was merely exposing his biased position, and utter lack of respect for america soldiers that deserve real inquiries into their murders.

Furthermore, if you take notice you will see an utter defense of the insignificance even when more proof is provided to suffice his cynicism. After which he changes his story to, "That happened over 40 years ago, what's it matter now?"

Well it is my assertion that this member represents all that is bad with obfuscation and how it hinders progression at ATS.

Thanks for your time. And I hope we all call these types out sooner in the future. Long live a compromising ATS!

AAC





[edit on 9-6-2009 by AnAbsoluteCreation]

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


You say:

It is my belief that the moment our minds begin arguing from an emotional place, we ground out our rationale and logic.

But then you say:

...utter lack of respect for america soldiers that deserve real inquiries into their murders.

So are you not yourself bringing into the post an emotion?

Personally, i've been a member for only a short while and i have noticed a herd mentality with not only opinion, but the reflex action of S&F'ing members who are part of the furniture. This i find kind of ironic, although members like Phage & Zorgon, i hold in the utmost respect for there brutal, cold analytical mindset

However, it's difficult to debate without emotion. I think the word obfuscation is not applicable in the context you describe where said member has shown elements of "inconsideration".

Perhaps he/she is just not as eloquent as most - so what. Atleast they are posting to feed the google machine that ATS encourages by expressing in their T&C's the warning to not obfuscate text with shorthand, so they rank higher. Whether the said member obfuscates their intent by maligning the OP is neither here nor there.

Basically, all i'm trying to say, is that people should be able to say what they want, whether or not it pisses off others. To try and encourage robotic analytic responses would be tiresome without an element of humanism, albeit malicious or friendly.

p.s. i'm umming and arring about continuing ATS membership. I'd prefer to accept ignorance as the continual bombastic negativity and CT's are mentally draining, especially the Swine Flu thread which made me join. If i die from it, tough sh#. But worrying about it, that's a different story.

I caught a glimpse of the window and noticed a sliver of sunshine and realised it's not all doom 'n gloom. There are actually trees and flowers out there in the 'big bad World' and the air is still good to breathe.

p.s. i'm ranting and hope i haven't debased your thread

Part of denying ignorance is knowing when people and sources are not dealing in truth.

I am sorry if that concept was beyond you ability to understand.

I am also sorry that you don't control this board.

You can stop challenges to poor or false sources.

You can't stop challenges to peoples assumptions

You can't stop challenging wrong assumptions.

I know this clearly bothers you, so sorry, If you do require dictorial control of a board and what people are allow to say, you need to create your own.

This board was created for EVERYONE to deny ignorance.

Attempting to stop people from challenging assumptions or idea's ius not allow here, sorry.

So you are free to leave this board, or you are free to accept anyone can post opinions and facts, even if they differ from yours!

reply to post by mrmonsoon


I am not so certain the said thread was about a source. If it was, perhaps you would have a point. It was actually about a fact, and when you were forced to take notice of the fact, you chose to disregard and obfuscate.

But you can spin it anyway that helps you sleep better at night with your selfish perspectives.

AAC

reply to post by PrisonerOfSociety


The point was that the member refused to look at the subject matter of the thread and decided to argue semantics while using extensive amounts of irrelevant information. Fine. But once the semantics are figured out, you should then look at the root of the thread. At that point it was dismissed as irrelevant.

So he or she obfuscated to distract and then was inconsiderate. Well played.

AAC

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
reply to post by PrisonerOfSociety

 

The point was that the member refused to look at the subject matter of the thread and decided to argue semantics while using extensive amounts of irrelevant information. Fine. But once the semantics are figured out, you should then look at the root of the thread. At that point it was dismissed as irrelevant.

So he or she obfuscated to distract and then was inconsiderate. Well played.

AAC

Come on mate - what makes someone really intelligent is not realising that someone is not playing by the rhetorical rules, and especially not by pointing this out - but rather realising this is the reality of confronting idiots. Overcome the emotional "outrage" you feel, especially overcome the urge to respond, rather overcome your reactionary instincts and emotional response to their pathetic ways - the reality is that you can only present sound credible arguments - when that fails simply belittle their paltry minds - it is incredibly easy to do around here and provides for great insight into the incredible depths of asinine moronic ignorance to which people have devolved - not to mention some great laughs - feeling that others aren't arguing by the rules will only cause you pain. Accept it and belittle their feeble minds.

Once again we come to loggerheads. We have a thread someone starts that just sounds wacky as heck and if we do not agree with there 'proof' then we are the dumb ones. Don't worry though OP I am not upset that you presented this because I am used to it by now. I have a very open mind. Just because I don't agree with someone telling me nukes don't exist when I worked on them myself doesn't make me close minded.

Where is the line drawn? Who decides real and fake?

Sorry friend, I agree with civility but I am not close-minded just because I disagree with some unbelievably crappy 'proof'

-Kyo

**NEWSFLASH**

Information found on internet, discovered to be false. Shock, horror.

Amen to that Prisoner...

look I won't say it's all false. I have seen some conspiracies here that intrigue me but some of them are just plain out there as far as I am concerned

-Kyo

reply to post by KyoZero


We only believe stories that inherently we want to believe.

I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster...anyone care to refute my religion???

Look, it has pictures and everything

AAC