Questions regarding advancing beyond the 3rd Degree

Originally posted by swordsman
Pennsylvania is conducting one of those 'one day class' travesties this fall in which everything will be 'purchased'. Walk in in the morning. leave the end of the day with all three blue lodge degrees, the 32nd degree in AASR, and a Shriner.

Thats crazy, and IMHO such an injustic to those who go through this process, they learn nothing, and there is no doubt will miss TONS of information. Not to mention the experience of going through the degrees of Masonry and all that is gained in that process.

What about the probationary period? Do they go through that or are they allowed to walk out the door wearing light as well?

Probationary period? Haha. They need to petition a lodge prior to the event, the grand lodge has set up an 800 number to expedite this. There are posters and ads plastered all over for the one day class (so much for not soliciting membership). They walk out at the end of the day as a full fledged Master Mason, having simply watched the degrees exemplified on stage.

Any MMs who do not yet belong to the AASR or Shrine can merely show up the day of the class, fill out a petition, pay their money, and they're in.

Ohio has done this twice in the last two years as well, I think that's where PA got the idea from.

[edit on 8-6-2004 by swordsman]

Wait, wait, wait! You mean that they dont even participate in the rituals, they simply WATCH them!?!?!?!???!!! What about the oaths do they watch these too???

[edit on 6/8/04 by Khonsu]

Nope, they don't participate, simply watch on stage. They are each issued a bible which they hold in their hand and stand rather than kneel while taking the oath. There is supposed to be one 'guide' to every 4 to 6 candidates to quickly go over the grip and word between degrees. I guess travelling the same road as many good and worthy fellows have travelled before them doesn't mean anything anymore.

Must be a lot of light snatching going on over there.

Originally posted by Khonsu
Wait, wait, wait! You mean that they dont even participate in the rituals, they simply WATCH them!?!?!?!???!!! What about the oaths do they watch these too???

Sad to say, but I bet more of this happens in the future. Masonry meets modern man, who wants everything handed to him. And wants it RIGHT now.

Welcome to the 21st century. *sigh*

Originally posted by Khonsu
Must be a lot of light snatching going on over there.

snatching??

Originally posted by swordsman
snatching??

Yeah, snatching/taking, for not knowing what you are talking about or claiming to be something you arent.

So what you guys are saying is that you have to pay some kind of dues for the different degrees then? Are you saying that you could be held back (possibly even not admitted to join) in Freemasonry if you don't have money?

Unfortunately, yes.
We're not talking vast sums of money, but it is money nonetheless.

Alas, this is a sign of modern times. Like anything else in life, you need money - if only the petrol money to get there. Money for a drink at the bar, money for regalia, money for your meal, money for Charity. It all adds up. The dues aren't really that much (in fact they are probably the least expense, I used the word "dues" in my previous post to encompass all costs) but when you add them to the rest it does make a difference.

This becomes a problem when you cast aside the conspiracy theory for once and realise that freemasonry truly is made up of men from all different walks of society. If you're unemployed it is hard to join many degrees. But then it's hard to take part in anything.
Sometimes a lodge will subsidise a poorer brother - pay for his meals, hold his subscription etc.

Originally posted by Khonsu

Originally posted by swordsman
snatching??

Yeah, snatching/taking, for not knowing what you are talking about or claiming to be something you arent.

Wait, are you saying you think that I'm doing this??

Someone in an earlier post mentioned a 3 man team to investigate you upon petitioning to join a lodge... What do they investigate, like your criminal record, finances, general character? I understand if you can't say, obviously i am a non-mason - I am just increasingly curious

As I mentioned before my Grandfather was a 32nd degree Mason so that leans me toward wanting to join and find out more - then when I try to find solid, pertinant information, I can generally only find anti-masonic information. Since Masons are oath bound not to reveal secrets - How do I find out?

I have a decent job, but I am the only breadwinner for a family of four and I barely make enough money to support us - not to mention my current debt - not to mention all the expenses of joining a lodge to satisfy my burning curiosity!!! AAARGH!!!

IMHO, masonry is about the preservation and passing on of knowledge. To me it is not meant to be a social club, nor a charitable organization, even though it now functions primarily as those. I would like to see a rite that is inexpensive/free which focuses on the philosophy and esotericism of freemasonry without all of the other stuff. Something that cuts through the bs and straight to the point of things, true learning, not banquets and boring meetings, but a real dialouge. This was recently attempted by the 'Rite of Memphis' who then changed their name to 'Rite of the Red Cross of Gold', but it quickly deteriorated as it became about money and many of the esotericists who had the knowledge to make it work jumped ship.

Only your general character is investigated. You are expected to declare any criminal activity and you are told previously what freemasonry will cost you.

As for your personal situation? Don't write freemasonry off over money - as I said - I know unemployed masons. The best thing to do is to enquire at your local Lodge what it will cost you. There is no secrecy over money in freemasonry other than what an individual brother gives to Charity. And that's not really a secret. That amount is normally known by the Treasurer of the Lodge, but not by all of the other masons within the Lodge.

Freemasonry is no different than anything else in these modern times - join anything and it will probably cost you money. Don't let this put you off though. I've found that the rewards from freemasonry far outstrip any financial loss and in comparison to other "hobbies" (I hate to use that word) freemasonry can be cheaper than most.

Originally posted by swordsman

Originally posted by Khonsu

Originally posted by swordsman
snatching??

Yeah, snatching/taking, for not knowing what you are talking about or claiming to be something you arent.

Wait, are you saying you think that I'm doing this??

No, no, not at all.

I am not writing it off but I have not decided that this is what I want to do at this point either... I only very recently started hearing anything positive about Masonry although over the years as I look back now (I'm not quite 25 yet, so "over the years" really isn't that long for me) I have known several Masons, especially during my stint in the US Army at Ft. Sill, OK.

Honestly before I started posting on this site all I "knew" was that Masonry was "somehow connected" with the NWO and it was something of a conspiratorial organization. There are vast amounts of people who believe this, and honestly I was beginning to. I am in the middle of the road now, so to speak, but I have another problem.

My girlfriend whom I intend to marry is on the conspiracy bandwagon... She has convinced herself that Freemasonry is an evil institution, and I know - because I know her - she would (at least right now) be seriously opposed to me joining or in any other way being affiliated with Masons. I read in another post that one of the questions asked is if your partner is OK with you joining, because they don't want Freemasonry to come between a man and his wife/girlfriend, what have you. Is this true? If so can you recommend some material to perhaps show her that it is not what she thinks? I am beginning to think that it is indeed a good thing, I still however have my reservations about anything I don't understand - that's just my nature...

Also, my father - though never becoming a Mason himself - said that when my Grandfather was [a Mason] he [my father] was involved in a group called the "Dimalay"(I know I spelled that wrong please feel free to correct me). He said it was a kind of fraternity(?) for the sons of Masons. Ring any bells?

Freemasonry does not come between a man and his wife/partner. To tell the truth, I can't remember a question but then my proposer was a family friend so he would have already known my wife's outlook. You are specifically told that your duty is to your family before freemasonry though.

As for material? I can again only point you toward your local Lodge. They should be able to give you the information that you need. You could try actually visiting the official website of a few Lodges. Some of them link to some good material.
www.masonicinfo.com is a good source for refuting a lot of the conspiracy theories that surround masonry.



The fraternity you are referring to is De Molay.
home.comcast.net...

When I was applying to join Masonry, there was a young lady staying at my house as a house guest (everything was purely innocent, I assure you... we were both actors in the same production, she was out of a house, I had an extra room, so she was staying in the extra room). In any event, when my investigating committee called, she picked up the phone. They told her when they were coming, and suggested that she should stay too so they could talk to her... as my wife Needless to say, great chuckles were had by all.

But no, in my jurisdiction, a man will not be allowed to join if his S.O. is obviously against it.

I have tried to go to the site you listed Leveller but my IE keeps freezing up whenever I try to go there. Oh, well I will keep trying. Hey guys thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, I appreciate it. Khonsu, Leveller, Alex, you guys have been very informative. Please humor me as I am sure I will be bombarding you guys with questions as I consider my course of action here. Thanks again


Also, is there any connection, formal or otherwise between Masonry and the Druids?

[edit on 6/8/04 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by The Axeman
Also, is there any connection, formal or otherwise between Masonry and the Druids?

No. Freemasonry is derived from the medieval fraternity of stonemasons. Some writers, including even Thomas Paine, have attempted to link Masonry with Druidism, but serious historical scholars label this as silly at best.

Fiat Lvx.