Canadians not the only ones peeved over 'Buy American', page 2

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II

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This is the most anti-american website I have ever been on. What is wrong with buying American?

If you have not noticed, we are having tough economic times. What does a wise family do when things get tough? They trade with each other to keep money in the family.

We do not have any obligation to buy products from other countries. If we are willing to pay a little extra for American products, it is the wise thing to do.

This comment is a perfect example of stunning american arrogance and ignorance, thinking the US can live on an island by themselves. Wake up call - you can't.

Here is one example. Canada is by far the largest supplier of oil to the US. Maybe we should "cut you off"?

Or do you only want it your way and to hell with everybody else?

The Canadian response here is not about protectionism but is simply trying to bring the topic to the front news page.

reply to post by leo123

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How is that arrogant and where did I say we can live on an island by oursevles? Jeesh, you have constructed a whole story based on what your imagination found between the lines.

It is our money and we can do whatever we want with it. It is your oil and you do whatever you want with it. At least we would have the good sense not to act like we are ENTITLED to your oil.

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by leo123

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How is that arrogant and where did I say we can live on an island by oursevles? Jeesh, you have constructed a whole story based on what your imagination found between the lines.

It is our money and we can do whatever we want with it. It is your oil and you do whatever you want with it. At least we would have the good sense not to act like we are ENTITLED to your oil.

Actually you do think you are entitled to our oil. But that is another point.

Why are we mad about the sudden shift? Here is a really good reason. We have American companies up here. GM, Chrysler, Ford, that is the tip of the iceberg. These companies got money from the US government. Why should Canadian tax money be spent on AMERICAN companies? Why should I be forced to prop up a company? I could care less if they leave Canada. If the parent company wants them to stay, and the US government does not want them to fail, then they should be footing the bill, not me.

On top of that, you DO have a commitment to purchasing our stuff in the way of CONTRACTS. Just because the President says to buy American, does not nullify previous contracts, that are LEGALLY BINDING. But then again the US has been shafting us for a long time. If you don't like the rules of the game, you change them, it has been happening for years, look at softwood lumber as a great example.

reply to post by Rook1545

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Well I for one do not think I am entitled to Canadian oil. I think your fight should be with your own government. You have a valid question, why is your government subsidizing American car companies, for that matter, why is the American government doing it? I suggest you complain to your leaders about the foolishness of handing out money to foreign private businesses.

I am sure Obama saying we should buy American does not negate the responsiblity under law that someone faces after they have signed a contract.

reply to post by leo123

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Well if you and the rest of your country has a problem with it then quit pumping it out the ground and shipping it down here. That would pretty much end the discussion.

reply to post by grapesofraft

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My point is more that the roots of trade between nations are so entrenched and entangled that simply saying "Buy ______an" just won't work. There are very few industries left in the world that are solely one nation. Just like the car companies, it might say made in America, but where were the parts made?

reply to post by intrepid

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What exactly are Americans obligated to buy because of NAFTA? Its called the North American FREE TRADE agreement not the FORCED TRADE agreement.

reply to post by intrepid

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Well if you would calm down and explain what you are talking about then maybe we could have a rational conversation about it.

I am not Canadian and also do not know much about Canadian business. So if you would please explain in greater detail what you are talking about then I might learn something from you.

What do you specifically mean about fishing, logging, etc.. how is the US screwing you or how are forced to buy your products?

reply to post by grapesofraft

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I've already explained it. This set up was put in place by Mulroney, made God curse him. The US has had the trade advantage for over 20 years. There are numerous court battles going on where the US has tried to get around the FT agreement to suit themselves. West coast salmon. Soft wood comes to mind as well.

FTR, I'm not pissed at Americans. I'd love to get one punch into Mulroney's abundant jaw though.

reply to post by intrepid

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Thanks, now could you please give me details on the Salmon and Softwood and exactly what Mulroney did to screw Canadians? Thanks for your help.

reply to post by grapesofraft

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The salmon issue

The softwood issue

Aside of us silly Canucks, Buy American costs America money.

Sure a few people (steel comes to mind) will get some extra money, but others will be losing money and jobs. If you'd like to shut out your largest consumer to save a few bucks, feel free. You're only hurting yourselves in the long run.

Like the folks at the US Chamber of Commerce say:

“If our goal is to create good-paying jobs at home by selling American-made goods and services overseas—where 95% of the world’s consumers live—then ‘Buy American’ requirements don’t make sense. If we refuse to buy foreign-made goods, then our trading partners will refuse to buy from us. And since we are the world’s largest exporter, who will be hurt more?

“‘Buy American’ casts our trading partners as enemies, which is absurd. Foreign firms employ over five million Americans at good wages, for a total payroll of more than $350 billion. Folks outside the Beltway understand this. In fact, state governors compete intensely to attract the next Toyota or Siemens facility.

“It’s easy to demagogue opposition to such a pleasing sounding thing as ‘Buy American.’ But it’s time to face the reality about the real-world consequences of these provisions for American workers, businesses, and our nation’s global standing. And let’s take note of history. In 1930, when Congress approved the Smoot-Hawley tariffs, other countries responded by closing their markets. The upshot was a collapse in U.S. trade that turned a sharp recession into the Great Depression.

Originally posted by jd140
Even if we did boycott Canada it would serve you right for unleashing Celin Deon onto the world.

Sir, you have our heart felt sympathies for that. But fair play, you did give us Carrottop.

Edit: Oh and the Baldwin brothers.

[edit on 9-6-2009 by intrepid]

reply to post by intrepid

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I see Carrot Top and the Baldwin brothers.

And raise you,

Avril Lavigne, Ryan Reynolds, Pamela Anderson, Sum 41.

Don't raise me all in. I have one Celebrity in reserve that the Canadians should have revoked citizenship.

reply to post by intrepid

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Alright, I read up on your links. It is very interesting. It appears to me that these are normal disagreements that would occur in a major change of the political and economic structure brought on by something like NAFTA.

Maybe it is that you Canadians are not used to the American love of lawsuits. If that is the case, I see your point, as I dont understand it either.

I guess eventually they will work it out. I can see the Americans having a valid issue on softwood lumber being subsidized by the Canadian governments. I can also see the Canadians being upset that they are loosing some fish.

It just appears to me that this is how things work when you implement a new set of rules. Everything looks good on paper, but does not necessarily pan out in the real world without a good fight or two to settle the differences.


[edit on 9-6-2009 by grapesofraft]

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