I have never convinced anyone else that 9/11 was an inside job

Originally posted by downtown436
They just can't get past the gov't lying about it part

Well I hate to say it, but the truth is that most people cannot tolerate hearing and listening to someone speak of the 95% of whats really going on. Because most people are so comfortable and acclimatized with the 5% of BS that is currently their entire focus, just as the PTB would wish. "Societal Programming" would describe it best.

Regards,

when the 90 were endiing, i was just starting to rub my eyes.
JFK Jr. and Princess Di were some of the recent things goin
that looked alot like the crap that went on in the sixtys. then
911 happened . BOOM !! i was fully awake. right in step to watch
the truth movement start and grow to what we now have.
anyways i new from instincts that just bringing up a topic so
shattering to most peoples paradigm , trying to convince them
of something just wouldn't work. thst's like putting on a shirt w/ a big bullseye on it. lol so you cant give people that chance . once it goes
that direction the cause is lost forget about it. listen to this ok.
anybody that believes the official story of 911 is for what ever reason
just being ignorant. i' convinced alot of people but this takes patience,
the time has to be right. the topic has to come up. in no way even related to you like on t.v. the news, radio , or someone else. use a good sense of timing. then just unload something that could only leave them staring thier own ignorance in the face. say one thing that totally blasts o whole in thier house . with out being a personal attack on any one . say something
that gets them coming to you . once you do that. you have planted a seed. water once daily. takes time but they do come around just be sharp and make clean cuts. nobody likes to look stupid.

[edit on 4-6-2009 by randyvs]

Originally posted by downtown436

Well I'll tell you what it is not about. It's not about getting de-railed into the same yes it is, no it isn't argument that nearly every other 9/11 thread turns into. It is about the brainwashing that has taken place, and is so deeply rooted amongst the people of this country including you, that not even one's own son or daughter can break through.

Well, that's a rather absurd statement. All this time the truthers have been trying to sow public unrest over the 9/11 attack due to [fill in the blank], and all it takes is a 30 second google search to discover your [fill in the blank] isn't true. Of course we're going to point out why what you're saying is wrong. You're not going around telling people that Pepsi is better than Coke. You're going around accusing others of mass murder.

What are you saying, then, that you're going to believe in these conspiracies despite all the flaws in your reasons solely because you want to believe them? There's brainwashing going on, all right, but it's not us...

reply to post by GoodOlDave


LOL. Good luck with that man.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


GoodOlDave, have a look on 911blogger.com and see what some members of the 911 commission, some Psychologists and some Psychiatrists are now saying about 9/11.

I think you will like a little of it, but not most of it of course.

Getting back to the original topic, many ordinary Australians like me do understand that 9/11 was a black op. It's not the first and it won't be the last, unless the truth comes out. Australia has had a psyop in 1996, no where near the size of 9/11 though.

You might have heard of it, if not look up not only Joe Vial's investigation, but many other documents available online.

I have actually convinced of 30 people personally that the OS of 9/11 is total bullsh###.

The 2 people that would not believe me for the longest time were my parents. They now 95% convinced, but still upset over what they have read and seen over the last 3 months. They, like most people have trouble understanding that the U.S Government "could be that evil"

I have never believed the official story of 9/11. I began to smell a rat when the Pentagon got hit, and seeing building 7 collapse. For nearly 8 years now after a lot of research and reading, I still come to the same conclusion.

The REAL Truth will to be known to the world, sooner than you or I might think.


Cheers


[edit on 5-6-2009 by Skyline666]

Originally posted by Skyline666
I have actually convinced of 30 people personally that the OS of 9/11 is total bullsh###.

Thank you, very, very much. In one single sentence you nicely summed up the entire reason why I come to these boards.

The problem isn't that there are these conspiracies to take over the world going on. The problem is that there are hordes of self styled Paul Reveres going around actively trying to convince unsuspecting people of these conspiracy stories, not knowing that the information they're passing around is complete and utter bulls**t. I know this becuase I've been discussing these 9/11 conspiracies with the conspiracy theorists for a long, long, LONG time, so I can explain in detail why everything you're going to say is complete and utter bulls*t before you say it.

Don't get me wrong- I don't blame you becuase you yourself are just another victim in this, and I do believe you do have good intentions. It's these stupid conspiracy websites you're getting this rubbish from that are to blame, as they're lying through their teeth in order to con you into buying their books, DVDs, t-shirts, or whatever. It's actively spreading false public unrest for their own financial gain and I find it horribly irresponsible. Frankly, I'm amazed that noone has been killed over this nonsense yet.

Thus, I come here so that people can have information from both sides of the issue. People shouldn't mindlessly believe everythign these conspriacy websites say any more then they should mindlessly believe everything I say. They should be given information on both sides of the issue, and then they can make up their own minds and see for themselves who is telling the truth and who is not. It's lies, not the truth, that need fear critique, as Patrick Henry once said.

A journalist friend of mine got a contract to write a major magazine 9/11 expose that was intended to be a tantalizer for a book contract.

After looking through online websites and a dozen $19.95 DVDs he changed his mind and returned the advance.

His analysis was the whole Truther movement is more like a religious cult, not a quest for truth. Rational argument and objective scientific data take a backseat to proving you have the hidden knowledge those around you are lacking.

We discussed one salient point that no Truther ever wants to touch. 3 WTC buildings were destroyed by plane crashes and structural damage, fires, etc.

They would have had to be demolished within weeks as they were no longer occupiable, representing serious hazards. Why would anyone consider surrepetitously planting explosives that demanded almost impossible split second detonations and take such huge risks of exposure. They would be blowing up already destroyed buildings, fer Chrissake!

Did Dick Cheney insist on a Hollywood style climax with the buildings falling to the ground the same day? Passenger filled airliners screaming into the WTC and Pentagon with so many killed instantly dead wasn't dramatic enough?

Beyond comment.


Mike


[edit on 6-6-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by downtown436


The reason you can't convince anyone is of the notion that 9/11 was an inside job is because we all watched it live on TV. We saw the planes crashing into the WTC, we heard the phone calls from the airliners, etc. etc. etc.

If you think that the only way that the buildings could have come down was 'controlled demolition', then you know nothing about the temperatures that burning jet fuel can reach (but the terrorists did, hence why they only chose cross country flights, so that they would be full of fuel) and the effects that those temperatures can have on steel.

Those that deny the truth about what happened that day insult the memories of those who perished, IMHO. It is the modern day equivilent of denying the holocaust.

OP: do NOT be discouraged by OS believers. It's tough, but you have to stay true to what you believe. If they start to convince you of the OS fairytale, then fair enough. But don't just clam up about it. If it comes up in conversation, stand your ground. You don't have to browbeat people about it constantly.

As for a couple of recently made "points": mmichael said:

We discussed one salient point that no Truther ever wants to touch.

Can't see why. It's utterly lame logic, as we shall see below.

3 WTC buildings were destroyed by plane crashes and structural damage, fires, etc.

Vague generalisation echoing the official narrative. Not fact.

They would have had to be demolished within weeks as they were no longer occupiable, representing serious hazards.

But in your world of the official fairytale, there was enough damage to demolish them. Here we see the straw man stealing into the debate, rustling a little as he eases his way through the crowd.

Why would anyone consider surrepetitously planting explosives that demanded almost impossible split second detonations and take such huge risks of exposure. They would be blowing up already destroyed buildings, fer Chrissake!

Firstly, let's deal with Son of Straw Man, who has now slipped in behind his dad: all demolitions require split second timing. So Straw Man Jr. is wisps on the wind. Split-second timing, if there's demolition going on, is mandatory. Therefore it doesn't weigh in the logic against[/v] demolition unless you can find evidence that there wasn't split-second timing, and then you'd be in real trouble, because you'd be trying to find proof of demolition in order to disprove demolition. Nasty.

As for the huge risks of exposure, there were workmen in and out of the building and power-downs (hitherto unknown) in the weeks and months prior to 9/11 but after Silverstein acquired the property. There are also copious witness reports and video evidence of explosions in all three towers prior to their collapse.

And now for Straw Man Sr., no doubt weeping bitter flaky tears at his son's demise. But we shall put him out of his misery...

They would be blowing up already destroyed buildings, fer Chrissake!

Oh dear. Here we see the Straw Man in all his shabby glory.

It's a none-too-subtle attempt to conflate the OS and the dominant "truth" narrative and then to try to blame the inevitable internal contradictions on the truth narrative.

No, the buildings survived the plane impacts, and WTC7 took no structural damage from the collapse of the two towers. In fact, building 7 stood intact for many hours before collapsing in a way that defies the laws of physics if structural damage is being put forward as the cause.

So at what point would have the explosives been "blowing up already destroyed buildings? They waited an hour for each of the towers, but then they had preparatory charges to blow, which you can hear all on video in the excellent film Core of Corruption Pt 1. Then they waited a while longer for WTC7.

At no point were explosives used on "buildings that were already destroyed".

[edit on 7-6-2009 by rich23]

[edit on 7-6-2009 by rich23]

Originally posted by rich23
No, the buildings survived the plane impacts, and WTC7 took no structural damage from the collapse of the two towers. In fact, building 7 stood intact for many hours before collapsing in a way that defies the laws of physics if structural damage is being put forward as the cause.

I've given up on arguing with Truthers. Fiction beats fact.

Of course there was massive structural damage to WTC & as shown by hundreds of photographs of it starting to dissemble and sink before it finally collapsed late in the afternoon.

You won't get the point about blowing up destroyed buildings. Their structurally integrity was gone. Fires ran though them. They would have been uninhabitable and required demolishing.

But I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

So believe that though the WTC and Pentagon had planes flown into them causing mass death and destruction, they decided it wasn't dramatic enough. So they drilled through concrete, planted explosives on the steel support beams. All at tremendous risk of discovery. Just to have a climactic finale with the building collapsing completely.

Thousands of independent engineers, scientist, demolition experts around the world are wrong. The US admin has a real flare for dramatics.

This must be true. A hundred websites and Youtube videos can't be wrong.

M





[edit on 7-6-2009 by mmiichael]

Ok I've seen Jersy girls and a few hours of footage on youtube and been trolling these threads for months. Now I ask as one with an open mind:

Convince me that it was an inside job. I've been reading the thermite threads and they make sense but are inconclusive to me. I've seen the flight path to the pentagon theories and I know the FBI is holding dozens of videos from that day if not hundreds, I've seen the timeline and the warnings that something was going to happen but that just makes it seems like it wasn't an inside job?

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by downtown436

 

The reason you can't convince anyone is of the notion that 9/11 was an inside job is because we all watched it live on TV. We saw the planes crashing into the WTC, we heard the phone calls from the airliners, etc. etc. etc.

That isn't a reason. "Truthers" saw it on TV too, in roughly the same proportions as everyone else. And we didn't hear the phone calls until rather later, of course. And only a few sourcew questioned the anomalies in them.

I saw it on TV and was convinced it was a horrifying terrorist attack until the first tower fell. When it collapsed into its footprint I thought, "that does not happen by itself." My suspicions deepened as Bin Laden was all-too-rapidly put in the frame... and I remember the police or FBI finding evidence in the trunk of a car in an airport car park. How did they find that in the first panicky few hours?

The more you look into it, the more it stinks.

If you think that the only way that the buildings could have come down was 'controlled demolition', then you know nothing about the temperatures that burning jet fuel can reach

The jet fuel that was mostly burned off in the initial explosions? I do remember that the BBC website had a ludicrously low temperature for the melting point of steel in its initial coverage of 9/11. Something like 800 degrees C. Where did they get that from? Not from a normal source. They took it out a few days late, because there had been complaints.

No, what was burning in the towers was office materials, that's all, and the clouds of smoke were black, showing that the fire was not sufficiently hot to fully oxidise all flammable material.

Those that deny the truth about what happened that day insult the memories of those who perished, IMHO. It is the modern day equivilent of denying the holocaust.

Ooooh, let's no-one discuss it ever, then, not historians (except in hushed tones) or anyone else (ever).

What nonsense. As for it being compared to the Holocaust, comparing 3000 deaths to the attempted genocide of several peoples including the Jews, using methods at literally the cutting edge of industrial technology (IBM made machines that helped the Nazis keep track of their human livestock), and racking up a total that some would put at six million, an order of magnitude 2000 times greater... there are some who might find that insulting. I find it merely pompous.


[edit on 8-6-2009 by rich23]

[edit on 8-6-2009 by rich23]

it is quite disturbing the amount of people who don't question 9/11
especially considering all the crap which has happened as a result of 9/11

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by rich23
No, the buildings survived the plane impacts, and WTC7 took no structural damage from the collapse of the two towers. In fact, building 7 stood intact for many hours before collapsing in a way that defies the laws of physics if structural damage is being put forward as the cause.

I've given up on arguing with Truthers. Fiction beats fact.

So the buildings collapsed immediately after the planes hit them? Nothing I said th the above paragraph is fiction. There is evidence of cosmetic damage to building 7. I'd love to see these hundreds of photograpsh showing it settling... although BBC news did that great coverage of it having collapsed with it still visible over the reporter's shoulder... fantastic.

You won't get the point about blowing up destroyed buildings. Their structurally integrity was gone. Fires ran though them. They would have been uninhabitable and required demolishing.

In which case, if you're running a conspiracy to fly planes into these buildings, you need to be able to remove them easily. So factor in some prep time for an expert black ops team to go in and wire the buildings.

Whether or not the buildings survived the plane impacts is in fact a moot point. If you believe the OSBS then they clearly didn't. You'll never find official reports even considering controlled demolition as a hypothesis, so you'll find nothing to point you in that direction. If you don't believe the OS then the idea that the buildings were demolished to limit damage to their surroundings is plausible. Of course, Larry )"we had to pull it") Silverstein did pretty well... claimed double on his insurance - managed to persuade a judge that it was two separate terrorist attacks[. And of course he's no longer liable for a huge clean-up bill because of out of date materials (asbestos) used in their construction.

Thousands of independent engineers, scientist, demolition experts around the world are wrong.

Many, of course, are in Pilots for 9/11 truth, Architects and Engineers etc. etc. So some are ok.

Yes! I have actually talked with four people who now believe the OS ( they have several ) is no longer worthy of their attention.
I do however have a question for the mods. The big yellow flashing warning sign states something about " TOPIC DERAILMENT " How about chatting up GoodolDave. Seems he has nothing to offer
other then several very concerted attempts at, dare I say it ........"TOPIC DERAILMENT "

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by downtown436

 

It is the modern day equivilent of denying the holocaust.

And believing that a massive skyscraper made of hundreds of iron columns can suddenly dissolve and collapse at free fall speed due to a minor debris fire (building 7?) is the equivilent of believing that Wile E. Coyote was a demolitions expert and that the Tooth Fairy leaves a shiny quarter under your pillow while you sleep.

Why don't you tell me the one about the giant and the bean stalk next...it would be the scientific and intellectual equivilent to your official con job.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Thanks for reply.

I have to set a few things straight with you though:

No Website, dvd, or anything else has changed my original opinion of the day of 9/11.

I previously said in my post, "I smelled a rat when the Pentagon got "hit" and since I saw with my own eyes the "collapse" of WTC 7, I have been looking at all the evidence available.

I have researched, studied, discussed with friends who are in the demolition industry (when I was working in the construction industry) and my best friends brother who is a Architect, who has worked here and overseas extensively.

When I told my boss ( A Licensed Surveyor and Builder in the Construction Industry) in the morning (he missed the late night news here when it came on live) about WTC 1 & 2, & that they had collapsed. His first words were:

"WHAT, THEY HAVE COLLAPSED, IMPOSSIBLE (looking at me like if I was a stupid f##$wit). "HOW CAN THEY COLLAPSE" I told him about the planes. "THERE MUST HAVE BEEN MORE THAN JET FUEL AND ONE PLANE FOR EACH TOWER - I WENT THERE A FEW YEARS AGO, I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE GONE DOWN THAT EASY"


I didn't have to convince him, did I? The Pentagon and WTC 7 just infuriated him more.


Yes, I admit I have watched and studied all those RELEVANT investigations, ,docos on dvd/cd/internet and and all of them confirm what I ORIGINALLY thought - Something is Very Wrong With The Official Story.

I didn't need to watch them for proof, All I needed were my own two eyes.

We all should continue focusing on old, current and new evidence that has, is and will continue to come to light.


I'm Glad I recently found this site, no one can "brainwash" me on here, because they, like me understand the PTB are trying to play a game of Chess on a global scale against our psyche.

We havn't been subconsciously hypnotized (using FEAR & THE MEDIA) by the REAL criminals behind 9/11 & ALL their little bitches trying to cover it up.


Why don't you really think about my last 2 statements?


Cheers.

HOPEFULLY THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.

edits - spelling & commas

[edit on 8-6-2009 by Skyline666]

[edit on 8-6-2009 by Skyline666]

[edit on 8-6-2009 by Skyline666]

[edit on 8-6-2009 by Skyline666]

[edit on 8-6-2009 by Skyline666]

[edit on 8-6-2009 by Skyline666]

Originally posted by dazbog
Yes! I have actually talked with four people who now believe the OS ( they have several ) is no longer worthy of their attention.
I do however have a question for the mods. The big yellow flashing warning sign states something about " TOPIC DERAILMENT " How about chatting up GoodolDave. Seems he has nothing to offer
other then several very concerted attempts at, dare I say it ........"TOPIC DERAILMENT "

Would you mind terribly giving me an example of how I'm trying to derail the topic? Someone started this thread discussing how they have never convinced anyone else that 9/11 is an inside job and I'm posting reasons for that, namely, that the material the truthers are posting is entirely rubbish and that they come off more like religious zealots to their audience than serious researchers. Your not wanting to hear the answer does not by any means invalidate it as an answer.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Hi GoodOlDave, I am not religious at all. My eyes are just open, and getting wider as time goes on.

I mean no offense to you or anyone else that disagrees with me here, nor am I trying to change any ones mind.

It would be good if you thought of us in a more positive way.

All of the 9/11 victims, their families and everyone else that has lost their life since 9/11 in Iraq, Afghanistan and in any other country, would want to know the truth.

Many 9/11 survivors and victims families are in FACT asking for a new, independent investigation.

Wouldn't you, If you lost a family member, loved one or friend?

I know I would and everyone else on here also.

We mean no disrespect to anyone who lost someone on or after 9/11.

Cheers

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Here is some great debating. Take note when they discuss the families who want a new investigation. This is what you want to see.

I have also now changed my personal opinion on Nick Pope. I think he has done to much research on UFO's and abductions. He hasn't researched enough to explain the changing NIST reports on 9/11 and he has no inside information on 9/11 obviously.

UK 9/11 TV discussion - small victory for truth on ATS

[edit on 8-6-2009 by Skyline666]

[edit on 8-6-2009 by Skyline666]