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Self Defense or Murder? Pharmacy Shooting...

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posted on May, 30 2009 @ 06:12 PM
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Confronted by two holdup men, pharmacist Jerome Ersland pulled a gun, shot one of them in the head and chased the other away. Then, in a scene recorded by the drugstore's security camera, he went behind the counter, got another gun, and pumped five more bullets into the wounded teenager as he lay on the floor.



Now Ersland has been charged with first-degree murder in a case that has stirred a furious debate over vigilante justice and self-defense and turned the pharmacist into something of a folk hero.



Ersland, 57, is free on $100,000 bail, courtesy of an anonymous donor. He has won praise from the pharmacy's owner, received an outpouring of cards, letters and checks from supporters, and become the darling of conservative talk radio.


news.aol.com...|main|dl1|link6|news.aol.com...

Forgot to add...the poll on AOL.com in that article is this.


Do you agree with the decision to charge Ersland with murder?
No 69%
Yes 31%
Total Votes (at the moment)=56,405





[edit on 30-5-2009 by FritosBBQTwist]




posted on May, 30 2009 @ 06:19 PM
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Once again, another controversial matter in the use of guns (or any weapons, but guns seem to be in the spotlight at the moment).

I will skip the rocks straight to the end. This man did not deserve to be charged. Whether or not you agree morally, I believe he has/deserves the RIGHT to kill these people who tried robbing him.

You might ask though...the kid was on the ground wounded - he did not deserve this!

Well, I have never had a robbery of this degree happen to me before, but if someone was in my house (two in this case) with guns, I would kill them. Even if one was laying on the ground crying, I would not have the respect OR state of mind to even run to another room and wait for police to arrive.

As you can see in the news article, it put this tab to conservatives...what I ask of all of YOU is not to do the same.

Not only did these kids steal from him, but they endangered his life. What this man did was get rid of one more piece of scum from this earth. Maybe THAT will send a message to anyone else planning on robbing him.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 06:28 PM
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I think that it was a little much going back to shoot the already wounded teen five more times. I would say that the first shot was self defense--he was being robbed after all, even though it was a head shot. The rest would be going over the line. It's "cruel and unusual" if you will.


I believe he has/deserves the RIGHT to kill these people who tried robbing him.

I think killing them would only be warranted if they took someone else's life.

[edit on 5/30/2009 by octotom]



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 06:46 PM
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Confronted by two holdup men, pharmacist Jerome Ersland pulled a gun, shot one of them in the head and chased the other away. Then, in a scene recorded by the drugstore's security camera, he went behind the counter, got another gun, and pumped five more bullets into the wounded teenager as he lay on the floor.


You shot him in the head, and he survived it?
Then you plug him with five more shots?
Dude, seriously, this was just overkill and barbarionism.
The kid was probably a two-bit punk, no need to overkill his ***.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by octotom
 


The easiest way to explain myself to that is to respond with prevention.

Prevention...to try and stop something that never happened. I believe these kids lost their defense in life once they went through with this armed robbery. If someone had a plan to destroy a building full with people, wouldn't you want them locked up for ever (or dead)?

A business owner doing something good for this country, or some sick kids going out thinking they can rob this man of his life of work.

Even if you think he should not have killed the kid, did you take into account the possible adrenaline/rage going through this man? Not saying that makes it okay or is supposed to in your eyes, but to ALSO charge him with first degree murder?

THAT doesn't add up.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 06:53 PM
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If the original headshot wasn't fatal, perhaps the last shots were meant to put the kid out of his misery? It's doubtful he'd have survived. Maybe he shot him to keep him from suffering?

Here's a possible scenario: If he was down but still moving, the robber might have been able to grab a concealed weapon and retaliate. The pharmacist didn't know, so he shot him to prevent that maybe?

If you're gonna decide to shoot someone, it's best to just kill them. Otherwise you'll have trouble down the road...

[edit on 30-5-2009 by mostlyspoons]



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 07:03 PM
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He should have called an ambulance...that is what he should have done.

I really do not think that after being shot in the head, the young robber would be in any state to think "I'll just get that concealed pistol outta my coat pocket".

One must take into account Ersland would possibly have been in shock.

I do, though think that he went overboard by pumping 5 more bullets into the kid.

It is tragic for all involved.

res



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by mostlyspoons


If the original headshot wasn't fatal, perhaps the last shots were meant to put the kid out of his misery? It's doubtful he'd have survived. Maybe he shot him to keep him from suffering?


OK, so if you're going to euthanase someone why not put a bullet or two in their head/neck(spine)/heart? The stomach is allegedly the most painful place to be shot and this is quite common knowledge, and I suspect the pharmacist wanted to inflict as much suffering as possible.

My take on this is that he was perfectly within his rights to shoot them (as it was self-defence), but by the sound of things he then took the trouble to act as judge, jury, torturer and executioner by going back the second time. That is where he crossed the line.

Oh - and no, I don't think this case should be used as an argument for tighter gun control. The man in question should be tried for murder, however.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 07:09 PM
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Huge existing thread breaking down all asects of the case here
Pharmacist charged with murder (*with actual video*)

Spoiler Alert... It was murder, the robber was shot 5 times point blank after he lay unconsious on the floor from the first head shot.

-E-



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 07:11 PM
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Yes it is very tragic for all involved. We have a predatory tendency which if left unchecked can cause us to do horrible things to others, with no moral concern.

I wonder what caused him to shoot the body 5 more times. I doubt it was malicious... Probably shock like was said.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by Goathief
 


didnt watch the video buddy



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by MysterE
Huge existing thread breaking down all asects of the case here
Pharmacist charged with murder (*with actual video*)

Spoiler Alert... It was murder, the robber was shot 5 times point blank after he lay unconsious on the floor from the first head shot.

-E-


Wow - I am truly sorry...if a Mod can lock the thread with a link at the bottom to that I would appreciate it.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by mostlyspoons
reply to post by Goathief
 


didnt watch the video buddy


Didn't you? Then I suggest you do because I did, and what I saw was barbarism (in the second part).



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 07:20 PM
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You gotta think about the pharmacist state of mind. All of that fear, adrenaline, and rage running through his body i'm not surprised he emptied the clip. All those emotions awaken something very primal in you, and can be almost impossible for someone without training to just turn off.

At some point you just have blame the criminal call it vigilante justice if you want, but if the kid hadn't tried to rob the place hed still be alive. I think its unfair to ask the pharmacist to consider the well being of someone who was just waving a gun in his face.

[edit on 30-5-2009 by WisdomInChains]

[edit on 30-5-2009 by WisdomInChains]



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by WisdomInChains
All those emotions awaken something very primal in you, and can be almost impossible for someone without training to just turn off.


Then you shouldn't own a gun.

It's that simple.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by Goathief

Originally posted by WisdomInChains
All those emotions awaken something very primal in you, and can be almost impossible for someone without training to just turn off.


Then you shouldn't own a gun.

It's that simple.



If you don't wanna get shot in the head then you shouldn't rob a store.

Its that simple.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by WisdomInChains
If you don't wanna get shot in the head then you shouldn't rob a store.

Its that simple.


Please point out where I said that he shouldn't have been shot at all.

Thanks.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 07:28 PM
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Self Defense or Murder?

Suicide.!!!!!!

You Rob someone you take your chances.

Suicide by shopkeeper. (Similer to siuicide by cop.)

Nothing would have happened to him IF he had not done the robbery.

One less piece if trash to fill the jails.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by Goathief

Originally posted by WisdomInChains
If you don't wanna get shot in the head then you shouldn't rob a store.

Its that simple.


Please point out where I said that he shouldn't have been shot at all.

Thanks.


No need for your smug attitude all i'm saying is if your gonna pull a gun on someone you can't expect any mercy. You can't yell timeout i'm hurt call an ambulance.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 08:20 PM
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I'm glad the little P.o.s. got what he deserved. Just cleaning up the Cancer of our society. It would have been just a matter of time before the Cancer would have climbed up the criminal ladder and killed a innocent person maybe your mother? or father? or your little sister ? who knows.

People that commit violent crimes are not "conditioned" or "rehabilitatable" there just Insane, selfish, & "evil" they need to be purged from the planet. so every time i see one of these events happen i jump for joy.



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