hi guys, this is my first post, so i thought i'd start it off light and easy. im not an avid gamer (by any definition) but i did get sucked into playing call of duty 4: modern warfare for the online multiplayer. like i said, i dont play any other games, so i cant point anything out about them, but i have noticed a few key elements/ bizarre graphics that i would like to point out. i did a search and got nothing, but if this has been posted mods please feel free to 86 it.

for those who have never played or seen it, call of duty is a 1st person shooter (think doom) with the option to play against other people online. this is one of the recent installments in the genre that helped inspire the "video games cause violence/ antisocial behaviour" rhetoric. the designers updated the general platform in a couple of small ways. the 1st person shooter platform is so basic the rules never change, kill everything that moves.

- one feature that was added to this game that had not been seen before was the ability for a player to drop a live grenade when killed. now, up until this point the philosophy while playing (for most) has been kill another player, and if the coast is clear go check him for leftover ammo. ive been playing these games off and on for years now, and only when this feature was added did the strategy change to "dont go near that because it might blow up". the point of the game is to mirror warfare accurately while staying fun, but still to me its kind of a chicken and egg question. it sickens me to think of, but is it possible some green recruit made a mistake he learned from video games, and met his end looking for ammo? or is it possible that recruitment and gaming are closely tied to the point where someone made a phone call and said "the world is changing, the training has to change too"? i guess my point is, if this video game IS somehow intended to make people either more inclined or better prepared (mentally or emotionally) for the combat situation that we face today than this feature would be an absolute requirement.

- my curiosity was piqued when i noticed that almost every single visual motif in the game is either an IMAGE OF A ROSE or the word ROSE itself. im talking about shop signs, random license plates that say rose, down to the animated serial number on the AK-74u. im trying to find screenshots, but most of the things im talking about are not visible at the kind of angle you would want for a screen shot. nope, they're placed in spots where you may never conscioulsy notice them, but they flash across the screen for a few frames at a time while you're racing around with your mind focused on one simple subject, gooey and ready for osmosis. i thought it may have something to do with one of the designers or other team members, and it still may, but a search and a wiki showed no roses working on this game. maybe its someone's idea of romance

so i submit to you these questions for discussion.

-what (if any) is the role of video games, particularly this one, in the mass media's campaign to brainwash and condition its users/viewers?

-is there special significance to the so-called "background" images players have no choice but subconsciously interpret? in this case, is the rose a coincidence, an in-joke, or is it the familiar branding of a product by its veiled source, the boastful claiming of a tool by its master too brazen to stay hidden?

i would especially like to hear what our members in the armed services think on this topic.

now, to anyone who thinks this is the silliest thing they have ever heard, you are right, it is silly. but it stops being AS silly the moment you here the voice of a twelve year old boy under the name "buzzcutkillerr" shouting the very phrases the game shouts at every player, only hes repeating it slowly at odd intervals like a mantra timed by mans own desire for ultimate destruction.

I play COD:4 and 5 quite a bit. They are a past time for most. If they make for a better warrior in the future, great.

On xbox live i am "TheMagicalTurd" (my son made it up).

'themagicalturd' thats hilarious. i might add you if u dont mind - im on 360 too. anyhoo, this kind of technology may very well make for better warriors in the future, my understanding is that the airforce uses flight sims in training. probably a little more advanced than the 360, but think about it. you've got all the test subjects (recruits) you could ever want, and you find that these video simulated training excersises really work! wouldnt you implement a lower level "mas consumption" training?

its afx0187081b or some string of digits like that - it starts with afx. i agree that the environment does affect gameplay in a way that isnt quite realistic. but the user comes out with some key knowledge, past my original point every player is destined to learn that knowing the map can be more valuable than skill or equipment. this is what we learned in vietnam, and i imagine our boys are seeing some of that right now in hairy urban neighborhoods overseas. i know my neighborhood pretty darn well, and it wouldn't be too hard to break that info down to, for instance, how to get to the beer store from my door while staying out of sight and around/behind cover thick enough to do something. go a few miles down the road to someplace ive never been, that same trip could be very slow indeed. its little things like that people once may have had to learn from (possibly nightmarish) experience, but i learned it wether purposefully or not, from a video game.

humm...you need to take some screwenshots and post here ... maybe this rose is something that they use because they dont want to repeat the render of an object, so it is always rose ....

or because someone wants to make a point for some girl named rose hahaha who knows ...

Tom Clancy's Endwar has the same effect mind you it's an RTS not a FPS but it might train someone to control platoon's of troops rather than one person making it the perfect game for a future officer.

Have you people never heard of "America's Army"? "America's Army" is a FPS put out by the U.S military originally for the PC. It is free to download off the net and to play. I believe there is a version for the XBox. Search "America's Army" in Wikipedia.

The purpose of it was to aid with recruiting, given the popularity of FPS within the prime age group, and provide a more accurate portrayal of the skills and tactics required of a U.S. soldier.

Flight Simulators have been in existence in one form or another since WW 1. Electronic flight simulators are used for training by both military and commercial aviation and are very sophisticated, often including hydraulically-driven platforms to simulate aircraft movement. Even in comparison to what is available on the PC, console flight sims are more arcade game and less flight sim.

I don't play games but my son does have that game.

Are you suggesting that ROSE may be some kind of Manchurian Candidate trigger word or suggestion for future....whatever comes our way??

Well I don't know what your thinking but make you a better warrior? Handling real guns is much different without the cross hair indicator. If you play the game more often then there goes your cardio. CoD is a fun game, I used to play it a lot more then I do now. Never noticed any signs because I was too busy killing people.

Well, since the invention of guns in general gave people the (as some would call) advantage of not having to be up close and personal with your enemy nor face him in hand to hand combat.

Perhaps in the future, the weaponry will be robotic and there is a viewscreen that is between you and your enemy while the robot/drone chases another human being down the streets...in that case, it would be like a game.

It is no different than using a tank against a bicycle. The tank operators are safe without having to contact an individual on the outside. Maybe in the future our own children or their children will be chasing citizens via remote controlled vehicles and have just as much fun at it as if it were a game (because of the lack of contact and the inability to know who/what their percieved enemy actually is--except what they have been told).

[edit on 24-5-2009 by suzque66]

[edit on 24-5-2009 by suzque66]

i'll try and clarify re: certain questions right here.

suzque - i hadnt thought of functional subliminal implanting as far as the rose thing is concerned, i personally thought it looked like the calling card of a person or organization behind the possible (at this point hypothetical) manicuring of the game itself to condition people into certain modes of thinking.

equinox, im not suggesting that computer animated crosshairs translate to real world experience with real gear. merely that in basic training for instance, one of the tasks at hand is to turn a rational, supposedly moral civillian into someone who can sleep at night after doing things that may or may not have crossed deeply ingrained moral boundaries. conditioning a generation to be receptive to this process, while ingraining some (in the eyes of the creator) useful subconscious info seems like a logical thing to do.

erwalker has seen straight to heart of this discussion, as it was meant to gather varying viewpoints on a larger question that i should have put in the post:

"Is our government using video games to condition our youth by combining existing training methods with existing brainwashing techniques?"

im gonna take some screenshots here in a minute, but it might be a little while before they're up.

i'll try and clarify re: certain questions right here.

suzque - i hadnt thought of functional subliminal implanting as far as the rose thing is concerned, i personally thought it looked like the calling card of a person or organization behind the possible (at this point hypothetical) manicuring of the game itself to condition people into certain modes of thinking.

equinox, im not suggesting that computer animated crosshairs translate to real world experience with real gear. merely that in basic training for instance, one of the tasks at hand is to turn a rational, supposedly moral civillian into someone who can sleep at night after doing things that may or may not have crossed deeply ingrained moral boundaries. conditioning a generation to be receptive to this process, while ingraining some (in the eyes of the creator) useful subconscious info seems like a logical thing to do.

erwalker has seen straight to heart of this discussion, as it was meant to gather varying viewpoints on a larger question that i should have put in the post:

"Is our government using video games to condition our youth by combining existing training methods with existing brainwashing techniques?"

im gonna take some screenshots here in a minute, but it might be a little while before they're up.

Call Of Duty is for fun only but i guess it would help training to some way.

However playing it to much does some weird things to you, my experience i played it once for way to long and started to dream about it when i was being shot at i was flinching in my sleep. it definantly does something.

add me tho TheCrow001 if you want to enjoy a game.

Originally posted by iNTERPLANETARyR.O.M.E.O.
i'll try and clarify re: certain questions right here.

suzque - i hadnt thought of functional subliminal implanting as far as the rose thing is concerned, i personally thought it looked like the calling card of a person or organization behind the possible (at this point hypothetical) manicuring of the game itself to condition people into certain modes of thinking.

That is exactly what Manchurian is, they used playing cards ie: the Queen of hearts turned the operative into an assassin.

To me it's just a game. Yes, it does teach you to think things out under pressure and teaches you to plan out your attacks(unless you're just a run n gun type player) but, it's still just a game. As someone who has played the COD series since COD1 came out I happen to find COD4 and COD:WAW crap. The online portion anyway. The single player isn't bad for either one. I'm just not a fan of padded stats.

I would see America's Army as more of a tool for recruitment or training purposes than COD. Especially with it being put out by the Army.

I'm a PC gamer so I'm just going off of the game play I'm used to. I don't know if it's any different for the console versions.

Edit to add that I know several players that play it for the hand eye coordination. One player I knew was in his 60's, had suffered a stroke and used the game to help get his left hand working again. Another was in his 40's and used it for the same reasons.

[edit on 24-5-2009 by Simon_Boudreaux]

I guess I am a hypocite then because I even allow my son to play these horrid games.

As a Christian I should know better than to even allow the thought process of killing others -- even if it is just a game/book/comic or other.

It merely de-sensitizes and erodes the very morality that were both innate and the ones I try to instill.

I guess I can reason with my own conscience that yes I DO try to keep his head on his shoulders by reminding him constantly that it is 'not real' and not 'funny' or rewarding to kill/maim. But, all in all, I am just kidding myself.

Makes me feel horrible inside actually, for him and for me.

games can be fun, and i think the best thing to do is help him to understand the difference between real and make-believe, simple as that. i'm less inclined to be either violent or conditioned than most people and i love the game. its clear seperation of reality and fantasy that is the key to harmless enjoyment, in my opinion

Originally posted by iNTERPLANETARyR.O.M.E.O.
games can be fun, and i think the best thing to do is help him to understand the difference between real and make-believe, simple as that. i'm less inclined to be either violent or conditioned than most people and i love the game. its clear seperation of reality and fantasy that is the key to harmless enjoyment, in my opinion

I do remind him of that, and thank you for your comment.

I sometimes sit with him while he plays and become a pest by comments like 'ook okk the guy is dead now, no need to kill him more' or 'you do know this is just not the way you treat people..right right???'.

He rolls his eyes, 'DUH Mom!!'

but, I will still feel guilty...regardless. Is my burden.

My son is a good, kind, generous soul. I ensure he gets his balance of reality that overweighs these games I call 'nonsense'. Aside from taking it away completely, the best thing that eases my conscience is to know that he is loved, respected and given only kindness by me. The rest, is left to his own conscience when my job is done and I am dead and gone.

One of my favorite parts of First Person Shooter and combat/war simulation games coming out now is the ability to play as THE BAD GUY!

Yes that is right kids you TOO can play as an Insurgent faction or Terrorist or as the Iraq military!

I know some might argue that this is kind of sick but it is a step away from Patriotic Brain Washing and a step towards empathy.

Games like America's Army ALWAYS show you as the good guy and the opposite team as the bad guy. So WHICHEVER side you join you will be on the American Army team and the enemy will LOOK to you as the Bad Guys BUT to them it will look the exact same way.

Getting away from that and into one of THE most popular First Person Shooter games to EVER exist we have Counter-Strike.

When you join the Terrorist team you ARE the terrorist team. You will spawn as a guy with a Burka and you have a certain amount of money to buy guns with. As you kill more Counter-Terrorist players (the other team) you get more $$CASH$$ to buy better more powerful weapons.

The objective of the Terrorist team are heinous acts like Planting a bomb to detonate an objective, or preventing Counter-Terrorists from breaching into a secure compound and rescuing hostages.

Another cool game mode from Counter-Strike is the Assassination mode.

A fun way to role play without feeling guilty.

A game that simulated World War 3 would have to be one that involved you as a diplomat sitting in a U.N. meeting. Then to be a Presidential War adviser sitting in the war room discussing the radioactive fallout levels to neighboring countries.

And who wants to play a game like that?