FBI Blows It: Supposed Terror Plot Against NY Synagogues Is Bogus

Originally posted by Ridhya

I dont think people are defending their actions, they are just attacking the FBI involvement and more importantly, willingness to exploit the poor! Lenin would be rolling in his grave!

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Sure they probably had willingness beforehand, but we dont know that. The point is that the FBI is coercing people to do crimes, it can only be for evil intent! Or do you think they are trying to coax out future criminal? Minority Report style? Im sure if you set your mind to it, you could be so obnoxiously annoying that you set someone off to assault you. Then everyone blames him for attacking you! These are not nice men, but their main crime is being born poor... if your government spent half the money on infrastructure as it does on the war on terror and FBI... hell you wouldnt have poor people committing crimes for money!

I see you points. I'm not American and do not reflexively defend them or all their actions.

I do respond to what I see as a default stance of blaming the US government and or it's agencies at every opportunity.

Your points on the FBI manufacturing indictable terrorist from rather pathetic street addicts is looking like what happened. A cynical aside, one would expect the FBI to be able to come up with something a bit more convincing.

Yes I have grown up with the debate of poverty producing criminals. I'm sympathetic but have no capsule solution. Easy to say "give them education, jobs, respect - then they won't steal." From observation, not all poor people become criminals, not all criminals are poor.

I'll take issue with your closing remarks on how the US should be spending more on eradicating poverty and less on war. That's true but a maybe a little reductionist. The US is what it is and has what it in large part because of how it appropriates it's resources. For better or worse.

I don't think there's a country in the world that can't be rightly accused of neglecting their poor in favour of other spending policies and projects.

Had the US prioritized a more equitable distribution of wealth it might be a better place. This has been tried in many other countries with varying degrees of success.

We're not here for a Communism vs Capitalism debate. But I think you will agree when government have dedicated themselves to eliminating poverty crime has not disappeared.


Mike

Oh, of course, money is not the 'solve-everything' answer. Happiness is. Someone who is happy and content will not steal. But my point is, who is MORE likely to steal, beyond normal human compulsion - the rich man driving a Ferrari or the poor man walking to his job at fast food place? But you know the answer I see.

Had the people in question grown up middle class, well off loving parents, good infrastructure meaning decent jobs meaning better money, that would certainly help!! I think that lack of this is the main root of crime. Not the only root! But the most important. It is the same biggest singular cause of extremist ideology and terrorism. When there is 'no way out' of this life, well there's suffering, or taking up a cause from a sharp-tongued speaker.

And you are right, the majority of countries care not for the poor, because of greed, the people in power only care when that power starts slipping, and then they extend friendship to those beneath them!

[edit on 28-5-2009 by Ridhya]

They were in jail, converted for protection and it got out of hand. No matter how you look at it, this was not kids in a basement. This was surface to air missiles and car bombs. Probably a good thing they got high or they would have realized they were set up and someone could have died.

Not happy with conducting their frame up's and farce at home , the FBI now want to extend their so called anti terror operations abroad too . What joy .

FBI to Expand Worldwide Counterterrorism Operations

Thursday, May 28, 2009

U.S. federal law enforcement agencies are set to increase their involvement in efforts around the world to halt terrorist activities, the Los Angeles Times reported today (see GSN, May 22, 2008).

The Obama administration's "global justice" initiative would give the FBI and Justice Department some counterterrorism responsibilities primarily assumed by the military and intelligence communities under former President George W. Bush. The effort would provide FBI agents with a greater role in collecting evidence and interviewing suspects.

The yet-unfinished initiative appears to be in line with President Barack Obama's national security plan, which would seek to establish a "legitimate" framework to hear the charges against them. The intent is to ensure that any terrorism case could be prosecuted, in the United States or elsewhere.

"Regardless of where any bad guy is caught, we want the bureau to be in a position to put charges on them," said one U.S. counterterrorism official familiar with the effort.

Some intelligence officials raised concerns that the initiative could undermine their own agencies' information-gathering efforts if there is a perception that secret information might be divulged in court. However, two high-level U.S. officials said work was being done to coordinate counterterrorism operations across the government (Josh Meyer, Los Angeles Times, May 28).

gsn.nti.org...

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


Yeah, Randy sat there shooting at Federal Agents, that's why in the aftermath all he was convicted of was for his failure to appear in court over a weapons charge of selling a sawed off shotgun to a federal agent. A shotgun that was only millimeters shorter than what is allowed by law.

Weaver was charged with multiple crimes relating to the Ruby Ridge incident, a total of ten counts including the original firearms charges and murder. Attorney Gerry Spence handled Weaver's defense, and argued successfully that Weaver's actions were justifiable as self-defense. Weaver was found guilty of one count, failure to appear, for which Weaver was fined $10,000 and sentenced to 18 months in prison. He was credited with time served plus an additional three months, and was then released. Kevin Harris was acquitted of all criminal charges.

In August 1995, the federal government avoided trial on a civil lawsuit filed by the Weavers, by awarding the three surviving daughters $1,000,000 each and Randy Weaver $100,000 over the deaths of Sammy and Vicki Weaver. The attorney for Kevin Harris pressed Harris' civil suit for damages, Harris had been acquitted by a jury trial on grounds of self-defense. In September 2000 after persistent appeals, Harris was awarded a $380,000 settlement from the government.

If you are trying to defend the ATF or FBI, bringing up Ruby Ridge is a bad road to take, it's a matter of public record that the government screwed the pooch on that one.