Atheist congregation meets every Sunday morning to discuss how they've rejected organized religion

Originally posted by The Mack
CuriosityStrikes im sorry but if you are not catholic and you go to a catholic school you have nobody to blame but yourself for feeling uncomfortable.

In my town all the schools were either linked to the Church of England or the Catholic Church. It's very common for this to be the case in the UK. Not to mention that it wasn't just Catholics talking about their religion. There were Protestants and Muslims as two other large groups within the college and there were a fair number of alternative and atheist students and teachers.

Anyway I wasn't blaming anyone for my discomfort I was just reiterating a point and providing an example from personal experience. That point being that as someone who does not have faith it can often be tricky around those who are outspoken about their faith and it can be likened to walking on eggshells. My understanding of this just adds to my understanding of why these people might like to meet up.

This was just funny
Dumb and dumber

reply to post by The Mack


You know I like Bill O'Reilly's Voice. I think he has the potential to be a GREAT interviewer. He looks like an Average Joe and seems reasonably down to Earth. He just asks TERRIBLE questions and does not give anyone a chance to state their case.

I understand everyone is going to have a certain opinion and viewpoint but I always like to think that reporters put their own views aside and attempt to get to the bottom of the story.

But unfortunately media is all about putting people on the news that represent a certain demographic that represents the demographic that the news station is aimed at.

I hate to think that someone only watches a certain News center because it has reporters that have opinions that are similar to their own.

I want UNBIASED journalism and it is SO hard to come by. I do not give a flying monkey turd what a reporters personal opinion on an issue I just want the facts, just the facts. I am fully capable of putting my own biased spin on something. I do not need someone to spin it for me.

reply to post by CuriosityStrikes

Anyway I wasn't blaming anyone for my discomfort I was just reiterating a point and providing an example from personal experience. That point being that as someone who does not have faith it can often be tricky around those who are outspoken about their faith and it can be likened to walking on eggshells. My understanding of this just adds to my understanding of why these people might like to meet up.

You are right here. I can respect your points.

There are levels of this across the board. I don't fit in most places because I am not religious, nor political, nor codependent . So I have a hard time in many situations where I need to bite my tongue.

I live in a very democratic town and I am not of any political persuasion. This makes it touchy for me to be around those who I believe buy into a Lie.

Here is what YOU said

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers

I think if Tooth Fairy followers were placing headlines at the top of Classified War Documents talking about the "The Great Moler will fall from the Jaw of the Infidel and through coins placed under pillows we will previal" you might take more interest in talking about your lack of belief in the tooth fairy.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Then Con you came in and said HITLER!

LOL I do not know what to say.

Well I do.

you are misrepresenting me and by the way, I know what I said, I was there when I wrote it.

Now in the first quote you said i said
and i quote "you scream LOOK AT HITLER! WOOHAA LOOK OVER THERE AT HITLER" and now,,

you are saying I came in an said "HITLER!"


Then from that word hitler you assume I meant to "really say"
""Oh you said negative things about Cheney putting religious quotes onto the headlines of Classified War Documents and trying to portray him in a negative light!"

Then you said I was implying the following.

Then you threw Hitler into the Mix to show that Atheists have done bad things in the past?

I didn't know Hitler was an atheist. I DO know he was fascinated with darwin and eugenics wanting to establish social darwinism.

This proves MY point that evolution is the atheist's religion exploited by the freudian like slip that makes no difference which you insult, Darwin or science, atheist get all righteous and presumptuous as you have and wow were YOU off base.

So by saying Hitler did bad things and he was an Atheist you are saying that Atheists have no reason to come together and talk about something like the Cheney War religious paper quotes?

No if I wanted to say that, I would have said it like this,

"atheists, have no reason to come together and talk about something like the Cheney War religious paper quotes"

This is what I mean about atheist and the idea they think they are so logical and yeah I stereotype them but

im koO like dat

Originally posted by The Mack
I think it is more a meetup for atheists to gather and socialize without offending others.

yeah yeah thats what it is, just like most atheists, Christopher Hitchens or Sam Harris yeah

riiight

reply to post by Con Science


My brain hurts now.

I do see your point though.

I guess what it would be like saying that a Atheist being scared of Religious Political Extremism should also be afraid of Non-Religious political extremism?

Bad people will always be bad and it does not take a religion to make people do bad things kind of a deal?

Can I be MORE afraid of Religious Political Extremism than Non-Religious political extremism?

Or is that a stereotype. Crap I think it is. Atheism sucks. I am getting off this planet.

Originally posted by KRISKALI777
reply to post by The Mack

 

But don't get me wrong, im sure these guys were probably really into the jesus thing when they were not killing their own people.

Well I suppose when you're killing infidels, as a penance to Church and God, as well as inforcing various inquisitions- that makes the Church the good guys

I seem to remember an event that happened in Waco Texas; where ATF officers executed a whole community because their religious leader was apparently a peadophile.
But I suppose that was Gods will?

Do you always pervert history and use the most extreme examples of a people to misrepresent the rest in a logical fallcy for guilt by ridiculous association or do you just enjoy acting like a fundamentalist for effect?

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers

My brain hurts now.

I do see your point though.

I guess what it would be like saying that a Atheist being scared of Religious Political Extremism should also be afraid of Non-Religious political extremism?

Bad people will always be bad and it does not take a religion to make people do bad things kind of a deal?

Can I be MORE afraid of Religious Political Extremism than Non-Religious political extremism?

ha ha now you're catching on and as a believer, I too am more scared of religious theocracy than I am statism as long as a conflicting religion is allowed to exist to oppose the extremism of the other. they sort of balance each other out like democrats and Republicans used to before they became simply greedy politicians no matter which one I pick

BTW,
Ron Paul! is all

[edit on 23-5-2009 by Con Science]

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
I want UNBIASED journalism and it is SO hard to come by. I do not give a flying monkey turd what a reporters personal opinion on an issue I just want the facts, just the facts. I am fully capable of putting my own biased spin on something. I do not need someone to spin it for me.

Wow couldn't have said it better myself but I think the days of REAL investigative impartially reported news is over and we will have to dig through all the garbage that is on TV and the net only now what was just a garbage can to sift through

is now a landfill

Originally posted by godless
Would it be less of an organized religion if they only met every other Sunday? Are they telling each other what else they should believe? do they threaten each other with eternal damnation if they don't conform? I honestly don't get the analogy. some of them meet every sunday or so, how does that make them an unacknowledged religion? My basketball club plays a game every wednesday. Does that make us a religion? Is the offense in their meeting on sunday? Hepl me out here.

Google "the church of atheism" and see how many pages come up

I think you'll be surprised. Using the tenets of the Christian religion as a "model" to define all religion is NOT an accurate portrayal of a religion make much less prove one that doesn't follow the model, mean it is NOT a religion. Atheist's compete with Christians to be an unbelieving intellectually fullfilled atheist. Only other religions try to convert people to their worldview. When Christians do it they are preaching shoving religion down peoples throats. When atheist's do it.

they are just trying to "educate" people

To the boring Hitler talk
Hitler was brought up and confirmed as a Catholic. He talked about his belief in god all the time. Here is a DIRECT quote from HITLER:

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter."

As far as im concerned he just did what his god did a few thousand years ago... KILL MANY PEOPLE. All christians here who claim otherwise lie.. (careful so you dont go to hell)


He may have been a member of the church, but he wasnt a christian, as he didnt do good christian things, or he didnt follow the guidelines of a good christian. Didnt believe in god's word. Later he changed to realy dislike christianity (and religion) Well they were a threat to nazi rule...

Bottom line is that he still thought a god existed, which makes him a THEIST, not an ATHEIST.


Another, later quote:

I may be no pious churchgoer, but deep within me I am nevertheless a devout man. That is to say, I believe that he who fights valiantly obeying the laws which a god has established and who never capitulates but instead gathers his forces time after time and always pushes forward—such a man will not be abandoned by the Lawgiver.

Over to something else
How are we supposed to even discuss anything here when all i see is christians (purposly) misunderstanding, twisting words around and even insinuate that language is different from an atheistic point of view?!

Words are words, they mean the same and have the same definition no matter what religion you have. Unless your religion specificly teaches to deny official words.


It becomes pointless to discuss when all want is to argue for the sake of arguing. You cant just talk and talk, you have to listen (read) also.

How can two sides talk together when where one side sees logic the other see illogic. (the religious side seems to struggle hard with this). (laughing at coherent arguments)



Not one religious person understood or acknowledged my posts (although the OP left after a while) but others did. This strenghtens my theory that:

1) Some are her to argue for the sake of arguing, instead of acctually trying to figure something out.

2) And that surtain religious people CANT of WONT understand most of what the "other" side is posting, even though it is explained in detail, even with word definitions.



I would still like to know:

1) WHY is ATHEISM a religion? List it up, and remember the definition of religion.

2) Why is NOT believing in Odin NOT a religion if atheism is a religion?? I dont see how you can say that atheism IS a religion but "A-Odinism" or "non-Odinism" is NOT a religion.

Originally posted by Daniem
As far as im concerned he just did what his god did a few thousand years ago... KILL MANY PEOPLE. All christians here who claim otherwise lie.. (careful so you dont go to hell)

Typical of atheist who don't believe in God is when they believe in him ONLY when they can criticize them as if they were as real to those who actually DO believe in them.

CASE IN POINT: You use the comparison with hitler just doing the same thing his god did then in capital letters mention his KILLING A BUNCH OF PEOPLE! .

Now my question is, how is that any comparison to hitler who actually DID kill a bunch of people or do you actually believe GOD killed a bunch of people too which would make you a believer after all.

Or

Are you just mocking them and trying to show them the God they have is a killer so they should not believe in him for the reason you don't which STILL makes you a believer if that is your reason for not believing in him.


Or

Are you just saying that to piss people off like atheists religiously do when mocking the things the Christian God has done that Christians already know about and think are just regardless?

Bottom line is that he still thought a god existed, which makes him a THEIST, not an ATHEIST.

Yes hitler was a theist, so what. Stalin was an atheist and killed many more so what.

Atheist's say they never went out and killed anyone in atheism's name but when you ask them if they give to charities like religions do, they always brag about Bill and Melinda gates giving more than anyone and they are both atheists. But that doesn't count because they didn't give in atheism's name. You see we can play that game too.

You know, there was a time when Christians were called atheist's and as anyone who has studied the scriptures as much as atheists have and would know, Jesus Christ was about as fond of religion as an atheist can be but believed in who he was and who his father is .

an Unbeliever just says to an invitation to converse about God, No thanks, I don;t have any particular belief in God or religion and have no interest and moves on.

a Disbeliever says YES Ill go and Ill show you all the scientific method so I can have you prove God exists on my terms, using a method too limited by our physical laws in our finite universe to ever pass the test. Then I will show you all the nasty dirty things your God has done (you know the one he don't believe in) and then lll mock you and compare you to little children who believe in tooth fairy's and santa clause. Then I will tell you about Darwin and teach you ever evolving tales of mechanisms that brought us all our diverse living things and that we all have a common ancestor (ie: god or G-o-d = God of diversity). I will tell you how stupid you are and that your idiotic creationism is keeping science back in the stone age and will sue you everytime you try to compete with our religion that tries to advance our atheism by hiring the ACLU and sueing yours for violation of church and state and you can't sue us back because we won't ever admit ours is a religion. Instead we call it "Science!" and it is only a coincedennce that every other atheist religious member seems to have a genetic pre-disposition and monopolistic terminally self righteous attitude about science because we atheists are the science community and like most religions, we are NEVER wrong!

CASE IN POINT:

How can two sides talk together when where one side sees logic the other see illogic. (the religious side seems to struggle hard with this). (laughing at coherent arguments)

You're the one arguing about a religion you don't think you are with people who know religion so well they practice it at least every sunday yet those who don't even believe God exists think they are qualified to talk about him and religion with so called illogical dimwitts called Christians who know nothing about anything.

My question is, again,
what does that say about you ?

Another, CASE IN POINT:

How are we supposed to even discuss anything here when all i see is christians (purposly) misunderstanding, twisting words around and even insinuate that language is different from an atheistic point of view?!

First of all, it was the atheist that thought hitler was an atheist, secondly, the language IS different from an atheist point of view and THAT is why you are arguing it.

You are the one that likes to use the killings of a God you don't even believe exists with someone (Hitler) who you actually do believe existed, and use them in a comparison as if they both existed then tell us God doesn't exist or that you don't believe he does, then wonders why we are so confused about language as if it is OUR fault.


My question is, THEN why did you use that comparison? Are you deliberatly trying to confuse people so that when they shake their heads like a freakin cartoon saying "huh" YOU can criticize their logic next! We would have thought it was as disingenuous as saying Bill Gates was so giving because he is Santa Clause!

You want to think you are right and want to communicate something while at the same time do everything you can to piss off the very listener you are trying to appeal to.

Then you talk about US not being logical?!?

We understand you don't believe atheism is a religion and we know why you can not afford to agree. for if you did. You would be offending us so much that we would sue YOU for church and state and take your Darwininan worldview religion they have indoctrinated all our kids with preaching it behind the guise of science.

Then we would kick it out like they did ID in Dover for church and state.

This is why Sam Harris has been so vocal about atheists staying under the radar so they won't get busted for their political agenda of statism and the eventual extermination of religion from the face of the earth.

Read "letter to a christian nation by Sam Harris.

You are a religion because you compete with religion and if you didn't have something to sell us that can replace ours, then you wouldn't be in the business of preaching your dis-belief or lack of it, who cares which it is, it doesn't fool anyone.

You see, even IF atheist's were successful in removing all religions, there would still be a God whether they acknowledge him or not.

And their would still be religion whether they acknowledge theirs

or not

My last question I have is this:


If their is NO God and atheist believe there is no God,

then why oh why are they always trying

to get RID of him?

[edit on 23-5-2009 by Con Science]

Originally posted by Daniem
2) Why is NOT believing in Odin NOT a religion if atheism is a religion?? I dont see how you can say that atheism IS a religion but "A-Odinism" or "non-Odinism" is NOT a religion.

Actually, if one is Christian (or Muslim, or Hindu or Greek, etc.), then not believing in Odin is already part of their religion. They are not believing in Odin as part of the trappings of their own religion. So yeah, not believing in Odin is already a religion. It is already several religions. They are called Christianity, or Islam, or Hinduism, or Zoroastrianism, etc.


I'm actually enjoying this Atheism-is-a-religion tangent, mostly because so many atheists are so adamant in their attempts to prove the utmost opposite, when as far as I understand, it really doesn't matter. I'm sure being able to claim that "Atheism is not a religion" would make the atheists happy in that they are able to prove themselves "special" or "different" or "better" than all other religions, but then...sorry, but welcome to the club. Christianity is special too: "It is not a religion, it is a relationship". Islam is special too: "It is God's final message to mankind as a whole". The list can go on.

So yeah, welcome to the club. You are all special in your own little way, just like every other religion on the planet.

[edit on 23-5-2009 by babloyi]

[edit on 23-5-2009 by Con Science]

reply to post by Con Science


I dont think anyone understands the nonsence you just wrote. Half of it is just gibberish.

Show me a link to where a supreme court deems atheism a religion. To call a newborn child religious would be ludicrus.

No one here cares about your silly semantics

Prove they are silly.

if you don't believe in God, what does that have to do with religion?

WHAT?? What are you on about? NOTHING.
Thats the point we wanna make. It is not a religion. It has nothing to do with religion.

The OP said that NOT believing in god or gods (atheism) is a religion.

Yet he said that NOT believeing in Unicorns (a-unicornism?) is NOT a religion. (or Odin, Thor, Zeus etc)

WHY?? It should be according to his reasoning. Either both are a religion, or none are. And the truth is NONE ARE.

By coming in here arguing about God

We arent discussing that. We are discussing wheather lack of belief in gods is a religion or not.

Read the definition of religion and atheism. Atheism doesnt fit. Then non believers to Zeus would be a religion too.

If NOBODY believed the god "Funky Baloo" existed, would EVERYBODY have the non-funky baloo religion??

Originally posted by Daniem
WHY is ATHEISM a religion?

Here we go, I have feeling that you somehow missed this scientifically correct explanation:

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
Here are characteristics that CAN define atheism as a religion:

Its doctrine: evolution.

Its scripture: the many skeptic magazines, online websites, and books.

Its churches: skeptic meetings.

Its prayer: chanting; "God does not exist!" "Prove that God exists!" Etc.

Its leaders: Many such as; Richard Dawkin's, Christopher Hitchens, Charles Darwin.

Its clergy: teachers in schools, and professors in colleges & universities.

Since religious people (who allegedly live in the better place where higher understanding and advanced logic exist) have no other way to deal with Atheism but somehow (regardless how ridiculous it looks from outside of the "Matrix") level the playing field by calling it religion.

It is important to for theists to repeat it over and over again while continuously diluting definition of religion in hope that some day it will stick, become an insult or perhaps become a fact, lol.

Unfortunately, many fail to see that New-born Atheists are the ones who are the real targets here, the ones which recently unconverted, especially Ex-Christians.

It is believed by theists (not all of them though) if you say this to those who just left religion (or been religious before) chances are that they are going to go back in the fold if you "prove" them that what they are doing is just another form of "religion", why leave the one you had before then in the first place ?

No, Atheism is not a religion, it is a personal relationship with reality

Originally posted by Daniem


I dont think anyone understands the nonsence you just wrote. Half of it is just gibberish.

Show me a link to where a supreme court deems atheism a religion. To call a newborn child religious would be ludicrus.

A newborn child wouldn't know what an atheist is either would it?

Don't start insulting me atheist, it just pisses me off an I won't hesitate to put your ad-hom BS on ignore GOIT IT ? or do I have to alert ?

Your choice I wasn't getting personal with you till now and one thing I can count on when talking to atheists is ridicule is one of the doctrines of your religion. I have ZERO tolerance for it.

www.google.com...

Take your pick

Originally posted by Daniem


We arent discussing that. We are discussing wheather lack of belief in gods is a religion or not.

Lack of belief is lack of belief but atheism is a religion NOT because they have a lack of belief but because they compete with religion and try to convert people to atheism and THAT is undeniable

We arent discussing that. We are discussing wheather lack of belief in gods is a religion or not.

Read the definition of religion and atheism. Atheism doesnt fit. Then non believers to Zeus would be a religion too.

If NOBODY believed the god "Funky Baloo" existed, would EVERYBODY have the non-funky baloo religion??

If their were no religions would there be any atheists?

Do you ever see any NON believers of zeus going around preaching telling people he doesn't exist? do you not get it the grammar in adding the letter "a" to atheist is like it is for adding the letter "a" to asymetric or "asocial" you are a-religious or not a religion one doesn't compete with the other in war or in an argument while the other does and why?

They have a philosphy! They think they have a superior worldview! Just like Christians think they are all that just look at 5th elements post and you'll see what I mean. It is rife with "My logic is better than your logic!"

It is pompous JUST LIKE a PRIEST. It is self righteous just like the religious zealot and ya know why?

Because it is a religion!


[edit on 23-5-2009 by Con Science]

reply to post by 5thElement

Its doctrine: evolution.

LOL! Yes that surtainly was uplifting. But in all seriousness it has nothing to do with atheism. The ONLY "doctrine" or belief it has is that there is no God, it doesnt say ANYTHING ELSE. Nothing about evolution. In fact most evolutionists are christians. Just because you are an atheist does NOT mean you believe in evolution.

Atheism is not a religion read it and wheep:
atheism.about.com...

Post by Con Science:

A newborn child wouldn't know what an atheist is either would it?

So? Havent heard of gods, dont believe in them, aka atheist.

Don't start insulting me atheist

It wasnt meant as an insult, read your own post and youll see that it doesn't make sence. Missing letters and typos here and there.



[edit on 23-5-2009 by Daniem]

Originally posted by Daniem
reply to post by 5thElement

 

Its doctrine: evolution.

LOL! Yes that surtainly was uplifting. But in all seriousness it has nothing to do with atheism. The ONLY "doctrine" or belief it has is that there is no God, it doesnt say ANYTHING ELSE. Nothing about evolution. In fact most evolutionists are christians. Just because you are an atheist does NOT mean you believe in evolution.

Just because you belong to a religion doesn't mean you believe in God either.

Scientology = No God

Buddhist = No God

Atheist = any religion without a deity and anyone who competes with another religion whether yours is simply a single position or not, atheist study the christian religion more than Christians do and for someone that isn't a religion it would be like that same saying where atheists are a religion like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby yet that is just what atheist would do is collect more stamps and study more about stamp collecting then the original stamp collectors.

Then, they would have us believe that they DON'T and they are NOT engaged in having any hobby!

Meanwhile some proffessor would write books titled the Stamp Delusion
Then they call US delusional!

Originally posted by Daniem
WHAT?? What are you on about? NOTHING.
Thats the point we wanna make. It is not a religion. It has nothing to do with religion.

This is what I said

if you don't believe in God, what does that have to do with religion?

and THIS is why I said your semantics are silly and only serve to confuse people you allegedly are trying to communicate with "logically"

WHAT?? What are you on about? NOTHING.
Thats the point we wanna make. It is not a religion. It has nothing to do with religion.

I said BELIEF in God has NOTHING to do with religion, NOT atheism.

That is why I said what does God have to do with religion but you want to insist on defining religion as ONLY a philosophy of life which recognizes a deity and THAT discounts a lot of religions including yours.

Regarding the newborn baby, a non beliver is not religious so that is what they call themselves "sorry I am not religious I am not a believer. But as soon as you add the "theist" to any word then you are adding a theistic worldview that is of any theology. In other words you are now saying you believe in converting believers back to disbelief and THAT is a religiously motivated worldview and you cannot deny atheists do that. The people that don't believe in God and don't preach it are simply unbelievers but atheists are "disbelievers" and they dis anyone that does believe in a deity, making them a religion. an antithetical one but a religion nevertheless and THAT is why Sam Harris was trying to warn atheists NOT to do that in the NAME of atheism.

do you understand that better? or?





[edit on 23-5-2009 by Con Science]