WAR: 6 U.S. Soldiers Accused of Abusing Iraqi Prisoners,Bush Condemns.

Images of U.S. troops torturing captured Iraqi prisoners are shocking the world as they make their way through the Internet and onto TV screens across Europe and into the Arab world.

Pictures
This is the big story all around the world.The images on newspaper frontpages and TV lead stories.

Everywhere except the USA where this morning only the Baltimore Sun carried the story at it's head,The esteemed Washington Post elected to carry it on page 24.

Reaction in the Arab world is predictably vehement.

This story was innitially held back by CBS on request of the Pentagon.






"President George W Bush says he shares the widespread international revulsion at the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by US guards at a notorious Baghdad jail.
As the graphic pictures were beamed across the world, Mr Bush said he was disgusted and vowed that those responsible would be "taken care of"."

news.bbc.co.uk...

CBS 60 Minutes II aired a segment where they showed photographs depicting abuse against Iraqi detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad. Richard Myers tried to get CBS to delay the broadcast because of the situation on the ground in Iraq.

CBS story...

According to the U.S. Army, one Iraqi prisoner was told to stand on a box with his head covered, wires attached to his hands. He was told that if he fell off the box, he would be electrocuted...

...There are shots of the prisoners stacked in a pyramid, one with a slur written on his skin in English
In some, the male prisoners are positioned to simulate sex with each other. And in most of the pictures, the Americans are laughing, posing, pointing, or giving the camera a thumbs-up...

...One of the soldiers facing court martial is Army Reserve Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick.

Frederick is charged with maltreatment for allegedly participating in and setting up a photo, and for posing in a photograph by sitting on top of a detainee. He is charged with an indecent act for observing one scene. He is also charged with assault for allegedly striking detainees ? and ordering detainees to strike each other...

...The Army has photographs that show a detainee with wires attached to his genitals. Another shows a dog attacking an Iraqi prisoner. Frederick said that dogs were ?used for intimidation factors.?

Part of the Army's own investigation is a statement from an Iraqi detainee who charges a translator - hired to work at the prison - with raping a male juvenile prisoner: "They covered all the doors with sheets. I heard the screaming. ...and the female soldier was taking pictures."

There is also a picture of an Iraqi man who appears to be dead -- and badly beaten...

There are no denials being made.
Mark Kimmitt just says he is appalled by the actions of those persons and says "Don't judge your army based on the actions of a few."

I've been unable to find the photos so far but I'm sure they'll be public soon.



[Edited on 30-4-2004 by SkepticOverlord]

eh. i'm indifferent on this issue. if they help terrorists in anyway, do whatever u want to them. but then again, it's a violation of human rights....
AND WHERE ARE THE PHOTOS!

[Edited on 28-4-2004 by silQ]

Contrast that with the photographic evidence of the Iraqi insurgents treatment of the Blackwell civilian contractors,
Now who got the worse end of the stick? War is hell as they say and brings out either the worst or the best in people, seems to bring out a much worse human being[sic] in the insurgents though.

[Edited on 28-4-2004 by Phoenix]

Those soldiers that abuse POWs deserve whatever they get. As do the Iraqis who are blowing up their countrymen.

[Edited on 4-28-2004 by Esoterica]

This is just... sick. I dont know what else to say. I know alot of people (if they read it in the newspaper or whatever) will be thinking "I bet they deserved it", but this degree of brutality should not be allowed to go unpunished. I will be very angry if those soldiers are let go.

Mark Kimmitt just says he is appalled by the actions of those persons and says "Don't judge your army based on the actions of a few."

These are supposed to be the professionals, they are the scum.

We're just seeing the top of the iceberg here, on POW and/or civillian abuse and/or other incidents. It's just the documented excesses that find its way into the open.

Good propaganda.....NOT!

I don't think any of this needs to be trivialized with replies like "they deserve it" or anything like that. NOR, do I think that these acts should be minimized by saying "but this is not representative" and then blowing it off.

It is important to state "this is not representative" of the U.S. armed forces standards and overall operational conduct. BUT, these animals (they're as barbaric as the Fallujah animals that did THOSE dirty deeds) need to be brought out in the sunlight and so ridiculed, humiliated, punished and stripped down to the indecent assholes they are, in front of the world's eyes that NOBODY misunderstands how much the U.S. population and government WILL NOT TOLERATE THIS.

Hell, it may be time for a firing squad as best as I can tell.

Using dog attacks for intimidation factor?? We've got a veritable S.S. squad over there, now don't we? I'm disgusted and appalled. Shoot 'em.

Originally posted by Valhall
I don't think any of this needs to be trivialized with replies like "they deserve it" or anything like that.

Hell, it may be time for a firing squad as best as I can tell.
Shoot 'em.

Trivialization? Less acceptable than overreaction without all the facts?
Which shall it be?
A pattern of behavior is emerging here, Valhall.

You know...becky.

I let you manipulate my words into the exact opposite they stated on one thread without calling you on it.

But YOUR emerging pattern is starting to get on my nerves.

First, since you didn't say a damned thing about the content of this topic, I assume you're stalking me across threads. If so, that's not okay.

Second, what's wrong with me stating that this situation does not need to be trivialized by stating "they (the Iraqi POWs) deserve it"? I think that's a fairly logical thing to point out.

Third, I haven't over-reacted to anything. If there are picturial evidence of these allegations, there needs to be a court-martial. PERIOD! If the allegations are proven out - the punishment for these inhuman acts can't get too severe in my mind.

Now - have you got anything to add to the conversation? If not, you can either u2u me with your latest hateful thought toward me OR

BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS!

Here are some of the photos:







www.smh.com.au...
www.theage.com.au...

Pretty bad.I've just seen the pictures on the BBC.

I don't think the actions are representative,most US servicemen and women are professionals.However,I do think it is indicative of the wide spread attitude to Iraqi's and Muslims in the USA since 9/11.

I guess it's the smiles that sicken me and the confident arrogance of people who think,not that they are above the law,but that others are subhuman enough to be beneath the law.

One other thing.These are just the idiots who got caught.I'm sure there is more and probably worse.

Power corrupts and all that.

Originally posted by Valhall
You know...becky.

I let you manipulate my words into the exact opposite they stated on one thread without calling you on it.

But YOUR emerging pattern is starting to get on my nerves.

First, since you didn't say a damned thing about the content of this topic, I assume you're stalking me across threads. If so, that's not okay.

Second, what's wrong with me stating that this situation does not need to be trivialized by stating "they (the Iraqi POWs) deserve it"? I think that's a fairly logical thing to point out.

Third, I haven't over-reacted to anything. If there are picturial evidence of these allegations, there needs to be a court-martial. PERIOD! If the allegations are proven out - the punishment for these inhuman acts can't get too severe in my mind.

Now - have you got anything to add to the conversation? If not, you can either u2u me with your latest hateful thought toward me OR

BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS!

Watch yourself, Valhall. Nobody's stalking you. And please use the courtesy of correctly using someone's name, or else that could be construed as a personal insult.

I happened across this thread and saw where you said shoot 'em without having all the facts. It occurred to me that you did the same type of thing yesterday where you said "someone has assumed something erroneous". That somebody happened to be you, who didn't do his homework in that thread. You didn't do it in this thread, either.

There is nothing wrong with saying these events should not be trivialized. There is something intellectually dishonest with jumping to conclusions and saying "shoot 'em" without knowing all the facts.

How you say something is as important as what you say. Both are fair game for discussion. You overreacted with your response to me in this thread.

Yeah, I think it can be (and should have been) assumed that the firing squad would be after the court-martial...
next time I'll be sure and point out the obvious.

Thanks for explaining the problem.

I did watch that segment also.

Rather inquired to a 'general'? (I do not remember) of the fact that the American Army was tired, overextended, and operating thin, resulting in this type of un-supervised activity.

The response was something to the effect that whather or not that was true, it was not appropriate behavior of military personel under the Geneva convention.



I agree, it is NOT appropriate behavior, and should not be condoned under any circumstance.

We are not barbarians and even though poor treatment has been cast upon some of our our soldiers, we should rise above that and react like civil beings.

It is not an eye-for-an-eye!

Edit...added actual quote...

Rather asked Kimmitt about understaffing. "That doesn't condone individual acts of criminal behavior no matter how tired we are. No matter how stretched we are, that doesn't give us license and it doesn't give us the authority to break the law,� says Kimmitt.

[Edited on 29-4-2004 by smirkley]

Originally posted by John bull 1
...but that others are subhuman enough to be beneath the law.

and that is exactly what should not be tolerated in a civilized society. It looks like the court-martial isn't going to take very long for a couple of these smiling jack-asses...

cigarette and a blind-fold, small accoutrements to show the world we will not tolerate inhumane treatment of other people.

These photos are absolutely disgusting. And Bush et al have the nerve to wonder why most of the world hates us. Valhall, I have a better approach. Why waste the money for a court martial and a bullet, let's just turn them over to the insurgents for justice. Afterall, the crime took place in THEIR country.

funny, though, that this was shown on the news this morning, and then promptly disappeared.Since this morning, I have not seen a shred of it on the major media stations. All i could find was a one sentence thing on cnn.com, and it wasn't even a link to the story. Funny how they "pick and choose". I'm surprised the story even slipped out at all.

A people wonder why the Iraqi people dislike the occupying forces. Yeh sure this isn't representative, but these are the only cases that have been discovered.

Originally posted by mR.BeAviS
funny, though, that this was shown on the news this morning, and then promptly disappeared.Since this morning, I have not seen a shred of it on the major media stations. All i could find was a one sentence thing on cnn.com, and it wasn't even a link to the story. Funny how they "pick and choose". I'm surprised the story even slipped out at all.

Well,It looks like it's made the front page of every newspaper in the UK.

It's totally unconnected but people are going to see those pictures and one word will come into their mind.That word is Guantanamo.

And Bush et al have the nerve to wonder why most of the world hates us.

Sorry, but the rest of the world has demonstrated that they hate the US even when we're dropping food rations to them.

Every time someone does something stupid in Iraq the same arguments will pop up.

Now, I agree that it is wrong to treat POWs in that way, however, recall how quickly the pictures of burned Americans hanging from a bridge was forgotten.

If you want to talk about atrocities, talk about the ones coming from both sides, not just one.

I know the image of big strong mean American troops kicking the # out of little Iraqi farmers is very supportive of your agendas but keep in mind their are two sides fighting in this conflict. War by nature is not going to be a friendly process. Sad but true. Measures should be taken by the US to make certain that such things don't happen, and the people who committed these actions should be dealt with appropriately, but representing this as evil Americans acting cruelly towards Iraqis who are doing nothing wrong is simply one sided and not fair.