Transcending Duality: Discussion

reply to post by InterconnecteD


Hey man its cool, just express yourself the best you can. It doesn't matter your age man but the fact that your 20 makes it easier for you to shape your life around your new philosophies. So maybe you won't end up in the rut of pursuing a career that you feel isn't right for you. ha, i joke though..I have seen many people of different ages turn their life into a completely different dimensions but being young gives you the benefit of being debt free! I still haven't gone to college myself but it feels like i'm in my own school, trying to make it as an artist to support any direction I wish to pursue. I only just turned 23 myself man and I actually had a profound direction change when I turned 20. Looking back, even a year ago, I know that I have changed so much. And I used to think I knew myself so well.

I think we all have this great potential but its up to us how to act on it. If you need freedom, well do what it takes to obtain it. Myself, I don't mind working for someone, the money isn't a concern as much as them telling me when and where I have to go/be. But anyways, I wanted to offer a suggestion with communication.

I laughed when some astrology said I'd be good writer / good with communication. In high school I failed english.. twice? But looking back I know its because I simply didn't care! I was too focused on music and discovering identity.

Well anyways... I feel there is a way for me to communicate the best, and that is to just let it flow.. i mean it feels like i'm not even thinking... like i just open my mouth and words come out and form on their own. Often when I write something I end up learning from it at if it came from someone else, and the spiritual part of me jokes yet feels there is something going on there. I don't take credit for the things I write but I acknowledge I am able to "process" it. Everything I say is a culmination of the efforts of the people around me anyway. In that sense, communication is a fantastic thing, a wonderful group effort.

But where I was going with this... well I have been meditating on these "energy centers".. and I mean, whatever they are, i experience them, feel them.. and know how to access them and balance them. I used to get a swelling in my forehead when meditating... now when I talk about stuff like this I get the same swelling often, but usually its strongest when its a 2-way conversation. I'll often notice that if I read something (sometimes the things I write that I dont know where it came from).. and I feel i'm on to something... I'll get anywhere from a light buzz, to an intense, burning, drilling, on the top of my head. That area is linked to the concept of the crown chakra btw, which represents wisdom, connection to the higher self etc, whatever... however you choose to interpret that, i am just stating the traditional definitions. But yes.. through meditation I have learned to be aware of my different levels of functionality, and that includes communication...

so...

when i try to write something... I mean... I'll be sitting there, scratching my head... thinking "i want to write something, but i dont know how to start, or how to explain it.".. its when I start to analyze what I'm saying that it starts to get complicated, much like logic and creating constructs/boxes around how you experience this information "in you".

So.. at first its a struggle..but just start man.. just write.. its not going to start itself... just start writing, talking... and the engine will be a little slow going at first and you'll find yourself analyzing how you want to word things but once you get going it just flows. Your keyboard will be going non-stop and if you pull yourself away to speak to someone, you might find that you are able to express yourself better while in that "state".

So just let it flow man..

When I write stuff like this, I let it flow, and I can often trace back to the beginning where I had a hard time starting. I just make all the edits afterwords, a luxury of written communication. I find if I stop to make edits or copy and paste words or rephrase things here and there, it often loses its flow, doesn't come out right. Any edits I make are usually spelling or rephrasing, rather then cutting out an entire line and putting a new one.

This thread for example started as a reply to robert on another thread. That is how a lot of my threads start. When I have the intent to post a simple reply to someone, there's no pressure of analyzing how to say something, it just flows naturally.. and then I realize "wait a minute, i'm in my ZONE.".. that's where I'll take the reply and run with it and turn it into a thread. And like I said, i often learn as i write, as if it's comming from somewhere else it seems! I have a very different way of observing communication these days.

I also find it constructive to learn by writing. Our thoughts pop up and branch into fractals and it's hard to trace back the origins (more of the spiral logic eh?).. so writing it down helps so you can go over it after and take it in.

It's interesting how we forget our dreams but when we write them down we remember them. I think in the morning that memory is from a different part of the mind we are recalling it from, and writing it down is a means to translate it down to the conscious level, or "decoding and encoding" as robert put it.

Communication is fantastically constructive. I'm sure you can articulate your thoughts just well, you just gotta play with your control panel a bit and get into that ZONE.



Yes and as you said about the meeting of people. I have had some interesting "co-incidences" or "synchronicities with people that I have seen "fractal off" into interesting directions that feels purposeful.

anyways, thanks for your input, keep exploring.

-SG

wow man ... honestly i think we are going down the same path.. your just a little ahead of me in this path of illumination haha.... the beginning of your segment all the things that you thought were important and now are not . i feel like i am completing that stage and now getting into what you call the "energy centers" and that swollen that you get.. i have experienced something similar to that.. i made a connection with the"head ache" and the left side forehead but i just dismissed it.. but i learned that,that part of the crown is the wisdom portion from reading your post, and now it makes sense, i also read in Angels and Demons, that extreme rush of emotions, what ever it may be fear joy sorrow, caused by a situations ( usually some what extreme) can activate neurons in a specific part of the brain, and grants you have "access" to it, i think the key is not to lose what you have unlocked , it seems that brain is just a serious of doors and only one exit but in order to unlock all the doors you need to find the "key"...

but yea anyway thank you man for understanding what is happening its hard to be almost two people, i still have all my friends and family but there is always something else there.. I am starting to understand and learn that feeling rather than fearing it..

Well i will read more of your threads/posts man.. thanks for all your help


Be easy man
Connect

reply to post by InterconnecteD


Cool cool.

I don't think its possible to turn back for me, well.. its kind of like this thread i posted a while ago, it didn't really pick up much steam but I posted this interpretation I had on my concept of "perpetual evolution" or something to that extent. The idea basically follows the same spiral principle, that you go full circle.. from.. self-awareness leading to sense of purpose, leading to self-fulfillment upon acting on that sense of purpse..leading back to more self-awareness that comes from reflecting on those actions and that sense of fulfillment that follows.

I do what I do because its a calling, and it seems to expand and go in any direction that feels most natural.

Part of me feels like I've learned very little, and that these new perspectives are actually simple and I look back and don't know how I didn't notice them. But that seems to be the nature of this process for me. Everything feels right, and simple. I just accept that its' as it needs to be at the moment, and just like this spiral I talk about, I suspect it will expand/deepen as events unfold.

Just live by the day man, we can dream of tomorrow but it's what we do now that shapes the possibilities. Just be like nature and take what feels like the most natural path for you.

keep posting and thanks for the reply.

reply to post by RobertPaulsim


I wanted to give my opinion on this as I just had a new thought today. I was all set to explore it but some friends suddenly showed up. I wanna get the ol' chakras open and run with it a bit more, probably as Part 3, a continuation to the first 2 posts.

So I had this thought. I feel I've been letting my left brain dominate a lot more then I had realized. I was thinking about the different levels of consciousness and how to better manifest with my subconscious. I was thinking about this because I started thinking about how I can do manifesting sort of things better BEFORE I meditate. I came to realize it's because the meditation actually made my focus so sharp so it was like my left brain was actually more engaged after. Sometimes it's the other way around but all meditations end with a unique state for me.

So I was thinking man... This conscious chatter, this conscious mind is the observer... we experience the conscious mind most of us and have little idea of the influence of our subconscious unless we learn to become aware of that relation. Basically I just wanted to state that I feel this conscious mind (observer) is so limited because it is logic mind. Its limited to its belief structures and such or vehicles as you call them. Seperated from the "source" indeed.

If I had more time I'd run with this a little more and organize it better, but I think you get the idea of what I'm getting at.

All simple things really but again about "temporary belief vehicles" and transcending beliefs into realizations... I feel like I've been fed this kind of information /idea numerous times but only now is starting to sink better.

So the key thing here is... harmonizing both logic /imagination... conscious and subconscious.

Another connection... the crown chakra is linked to the higher self and subconscious chatter, at least for me. I have more "tk power" when the crown is very active".. so... subconscious dominance?

I was always wondering why the hell people would imagine a ball of energy above their head feeding into their crown chakra while doing spoon bending. I mean I had a general idea but now I'm starting to realize that I want to put more effort getting that crown chakra active... and I mean.. it's active during those moments of wisdom and realization of one's higher nature...the links all make sense to me.. but is that my conscious mind talking?

haha.. I'm going to come back with this thought later when I get some more free time.

Yes.

I was thinking INTENSIVELY about what im gonna say in my
future TK demo while i was in my old long walk home.

I thought that I tend to view things like an scientist, scrutinizing every
piece like a puzzle, like a thesis...

Then I got these blocks of thought:

1) I sensed doubt and fear from me and everyone around me,
this is the most solid piece of evidence and completely LOGIC (as this
thread is all about);

2) I know the decode, left/right brain dispute and how this affects your
own little understanding of reality.

I know that, in pure essence, doubt and fear are restrained by this
decoding of reality, mostly a self protective device (keeper of sanity).

Then there is this big silence from masters and the whole individual
path to knowledge.

Im trying to cope with a thing DaMod said: "Now you know what you
get if you complicate things"...

So, all this logic battle is for nothing? you lose doubt, fear and reality?

This is bugging me REAL BAD.

So far, my evolution of logics was this:

0) TK is a gift
1) TK is done by insane will
2) TK is done by insane concentration and silence
3) TK is done by superb relaxation, peace (words, mantras)
4) TK is no thought really, you just do from a subconscious mind
5) TK is about breaking doubt shields, loosing fear
6) TK is projecting correctively intention in the energy body that is charging/discharging all the time.

I guess my decoding of reality is changing and puzzles are always
there to be discovered.


This is getting long.. sorry for rambling.

[]´s
RP

reply to post by RobertPaulsim


Some interesting thought on the train..

101010101 /\/\/\/\/\/\/ dualistic/polaric reality right?

we'll say 1= yes, 0 = no.

1 = imagination / spirit - unlimited posibility /right brain / YES / universal mind

0 = logic/ DOUBT / left brain / NO / conscious mind

logic is deffinately a NO factor. I feel logical thoughts are more inclined to what ISN'T then what IS... what is being unlimited with this logic spiral, undefineable in nature. Doubt seems to be it's nature

I always get the best meditative results when I can let go of doubt and really intend for a desired result.

Just get into the mode of YES, man. Dammit, YES! lol easier said then done sometimes. I find the more active the crown, the more the logic is silenced, and the more sense of assurance and meaning in one's "imagination."

When faced with doubt over a certain situation, the way we overcome it is to just dive into it eh? To rid the mind of expectations and to imagine/ believe / convince yourself that you can do/accomplish the task.

Is this thread just for our conversation? I admit I'm trying to bump it here and there. I really want to challenge this religion of logic. It really does appear religious to me. Like to claim you are the voice of ration / reason by stating "scientific facts"... a text book vs a religious text? Whats the difference? Both answers derived from an external source, a truth in its own authority of you perspectively if you allow it.

We need to start looking within for answers so that we are on the right path for US..not the path someone else says we should be on. For sanity and self-fulfilment. For identity and self-realization. You know?

BUMP.

Oh boy... How coulndt I saw this.. OF COURSE!

(and im a computer programmer!! hehe)

The power of YES! (this is a good name for a thread).

One thought come to my mind right now.. things need to be automated
somehow in the mind structure of reality... if not, we were are out
questioning every light bulb on the house thinking how the hell it works.

There is a hard part of logic and theres is a soft part IMHO.

We, open minded peope, have a wide open soft logics to deal with
the decode of reality... this is our 'fight' so to speak.

I will develop this concept... this could be an extention of fear.

Oh, i was willing to ask you this: if someone do NOT practice TK very
often, does fear won the battle?



RP

[edit on 16-5-2009 by RobertPaulsim]

I've been doing some reading on modern physics and the holographic model of reality, which suggest that the final duality is a unity through a type of interference pattern from two beams (like a hologram), one of which would be our subjective interpretation and act of observation, and the other, eminating from the source of light, or perhaps an objective awareness, and the two together create reality, which may be a lot more flexible and plastic than we realize, and therefore subject to transformation via a transformation in conscious awareness.

Certain NDE's (near death experiences) and OBE's (out of body experiences) as well as shamanic experiences, sometimes via the ingestion of hallucinogens, all point to a common experience of another level of reality, and a realm or a kingdom of light, wherein all knowledge resides, such that this world that we find ourselves in, is but a reflection or a projection from this higher domain.

Therefore, I think the final duality is that of heaven and earth (but no hell).

The purpose? To learn love. And this is the experience of the NDE'ers and many OBE'ers who've travelled to this domain, where they are prompted to conduct a life review, against the standard of love, to learn love.

And so the impression I have is that at the apex of reality, the duality dissolves, and then re-emerges (reincarnation) through a continual process of differentiation and reintegration, so that duality may be understood within the framework of unity, which is a unity of love BETWEEN self and other, even between self and God. Without the duality, such a process would not be possible, so I would say that duality SERVES unity, and an ongoing participative creative process of discovery, for the sake of love.

From this perspective, our world is the best place to be, since it represents the greatest possible opportunity to learn love, given the magnitude of the problems and the lack of love.

The highest honour therefore, may be to be born on earth into this veil of tears.

reply to post by RobertPaulsim


I know what your saying and does feel like I gave up. I was creating my own resistance that I wanted to put aside for the time being. And getting back into it, (tk) i'm not as good as I used to be... the doubt became stronger or a lack of practise? Or is the doubt formed because the belief that the lack of practise has any result?

Either way I know there are some doubt shields that prevent me from just saying "YES".

We are so afraid of losing ourself, losing our footing in our perception of reality we seem so attached to.

A "complexly simple" puzzle it feels like.

a programmer? ha, yeah I can see the logic comming through there. I rather enjoy programming. I was going to take it in school but its not for me. But what I liked about using engines like game makers etc... was that it allowed me to excercise my logic and creativity...an overall good stimulation of both aspects.

Anyways... We'll see how these new thoughts develop. Damn stubborn egos.

reply to post by OmegaPoint


Absolutely brilliantly well put. As long as we choose to "participate" or "observe" our creative flexible reality, then duality will be there. I like how you put it though, sort of like duality rising from the ashes, burning down its limitations which exist only from perspective, or "the veil"... Allowing the full understanding to surface and to apply it naturally without resistance.

For sure I see the benefit of being here, as well as having this conscious mind, or focus point, logic aspect.

You touched on something I can't get into much detail though "shamanic practises" but I've had my own experiences and it was beautifully simple... basically one thing that came out of it, I got a message that came through simple and strong and refered to me, or us people, us conscious observers essentially.. it told me that I'm a focus point. A focus point. That us being here is a focus point that is needed to increase vibration /love. I thought that was interesting.

I feel that's what the conscious mind is really like... it's able to focus on the cosmic web/ reality.

Beyond that I think you put it in such a way that there isn't much more I have to say.

There is one thing that is evident to me... there is a duality that I as a being/focus point struggle to understand... but more importantly, have this desire, need, calling to understand it.

To grasp the entirety yet I don't know how to really put that.. entirety of what?

Very interesting thoughts and I like the hologram perspective being proposed.

I'd like to hear further elaboration.

I think I'm proposing that instead of duality per se, you may wish to adopt the holographic model of an infinite spectrum of frequencies of conscious awareness, relative only to what is infinite, operating like an eternal wellspring of conscious awareness and growth, both emergent, bottom up and top down, from the trascendant object of creation, which seems to be a source of light, and a kingdom of light. But the notion of a strict duality, a duality of this and that, here and there, black and white, of me and you, beginning and end, top and bottom, this is really an illusion, because in the holographic universe, everything is part of one interwoven whole wherein even the distinction "duality", vanishes. If anything, it's just a logic construct of the mind, as a point of differentiation, employed only for the purpose of distinguishing reality in all of its many forms and functions, but at the root and source and at the very core and heart of existence, there is no such thing as duality.

Apparently, when people encounter these higher beings of light at death and do their life review, before setting to work designing what their next life will look like and what purpose it will serve, there is no judgement at all, but everything is viewed simply through the perspective or evaluated according to the standard of "was it loving, or not loving" - so I guess that's the final duality which frames the meaning and purpose of life. If true, an important thing to bear in mind as we live out the rest of our lives..

[edit on 16-5-2009 by OmegaPoint]

In my opinion...

Logic does not need to contradict imagination. Nor does imagination need contradict logic. Both should be used to validate and explore the other. Duality exists as a point of reference. The crux of existence.

Logic is based on what is known. It is probability. Imagination fills in the blanks of the unknown. That we don't know is a certainty. What we can always rest assured that we know certainly is that we don't often know what is coming next.

The logical mind certainly can grasp imaginative concepts as long as that logical mind does not become entrenched in believing only what it can know to be probable. To look only at the ground rather than the sky. But to only look at the sky we would stumble and fall, a lot. When we look evenly to the horizon, the possibilities become endless and our steps certain.

Logic changes as our understanding changes. The unknown is constantly unknown.

0 is the unknown. No isn't negative, it is simply the openness of lacking form. Is it this? No. Is it that? No. It is anything and so nothing at all.

1 is form and function. It isn't positive, merely quantifiable.

[edit on 16/5/09 by TravelerintheDark]

The main goal of every soul is to return to its source, which is duality-free. Getting there is the fun part! But you have to absolutely let go -- and that's really hard for some people.

- Dave

Find out Who, In Fact, You Really Are

reply to post by TravelerintheDark


I agree with what you're saying and I agree if we are looking at either the ground, or sky, but not the horizon that we're prone to crash into things. A metaphor which can be taken to many applications. As such in meditation, if you focus on only your upper chakras, its like floating through life and getting nothing done, I used to be like this. If you focus on just the lower chakras you becomes fixed in a somewhat robotic/structured life, and so on.

But I want to use your example for something thats on my mind... the sky, ground, horizon metaphor... logic has full use and relevance to me as long as we choose to partake in the program.. to continue to observe our reality.. There is nothing to crash into if one somehow finds themselves detached from the reality, one built on duality.

You know what I mean? Its hard to get my mind around because I see the dualistic / polaric relations... opposites or rather exist in contrast to one another and although they are like opposites, they need each other for deffinition, or something of that nature.

Hmm I guess what I'm trying to say is, in practicle application, I choose to parttake in my reality so as long as I do that, that duality will have its place in one way... my chakras will remain balanced so i dont "crash" metaphorically like one would literally (looking at the sky or ground).

I just find it damn confusing. I want to gather input on this topic. I can see many others have pondered it to such a great degree.

Something to think about... the heart chakra is considered the love, which is considered the truth.. it lies in middle of the chakras, between poles so to speak. Kind of makes you think.. it seems finding the balance in the two is the truth to me but the manner of which it is also transcended into oneness.. what they mean by that.. like I think that's what I'm having trouble with...understanding what these "old masters" mean when they say that.

My head's a little foggy, i'm not sure if this makes much sense. lol

Keep the posts comming. It's good to have outside perspectives.

reply to post by CavemanDD


We are in the zone Caveman... of doubt and fear.. of loosing sanity.
Thats why few posts.

I completely understand that.
We climbed the beginning of the mountain, and the air here is different.

The polarity here is: Is this a individual journey or love shall bring us
all to oneness.

Peace


RP

[Edit for typos, sorry]

[edit on 17-5-2009 by RobertPaulsim]

Hi Cave, Ive been shall we say avoiding this thread because everytime I tryed to read it my head hurt !! It is an excellent thread but not one to read after a late night or a couple of glasses of wine.

The universe seems dualistic in nature of that is expanding truth to me, 1's and 0's, yin and yang, from macro to micro and symbolic... so conceptually, it's interesting that one side of our brain deals with logic while the other deals with imagination..

yes the Universe is dualistic in nature but I think at source its maybe just one. In its centre it just simply is, it has no dualistic nature to it, and the dualistic part came about when it manifested form.

So in that sense.. if I try to use logic to help myself overcome doubt.. well some doubt always remains. It is when I am able to let go and feel it in my heart / "awareness", belief structures detatched, am I able to find release from this struggle.

I agree there comes a point where logic must be dropped and true beliefs within take over. Logic can not explain that that is unexplanable. If we try to follow logic to an end point it does indeed fuel an internal struggle which is endless.

I learned shortly after I started meditating that once I stopped trying to be something I'm not and just go with the flow that I have found a higher sense of identity. Less guessing/imitating and more BEING.

brilliant cave!! Just brilliant . This is exactly how it is.

Got to go but will reply to the second half later.







[edit on 17-5-2009 by Mr Green]

Originally posted by CavemanDD
Something to think about... the heart chakra is considered the love, which is considered the truth.. it lies in middle of the chakras, between poles so to speak. Kind of makes you think.. it seems finding the balance in the two is the truth to me but the manner of which it is also transcended into oneness.. what they mean by that.. like I think that's what I'm having trouble with...understanding what these "old masters" mean when they say that.

My head's a little foggy, i'm not sure if this makes much sense. lol

Transcendence to me is awareness. As we are aware of the duality of our existence so we can transcend and be equally aware of our unity. This is the middle path to me. When we stand at the center we can understand that oneness isn't a goal because it is already achieved, only that we may not perceive it. When we perceive this we move to align ourselves with the forces that surround us rather than struggle against them. And life becomes tranquil and peaceful.

We are no more apart from the universe than your heart is apart from you. Unique in form and function it is also equally at one with your physical body which is equally at one with your spiritual body which all is equally at one with the essence of the universe. Right here. Right now. How we choose to express our lives is often the line that we draw that becomes the wall that gives us the idea that we are somehow separate.

Fogginess is a sign of the thinning of that wall. It's happening to many of us. It will pass and then come again. Like all things we don't understand, if we allow it move it moves from us, when it returns it carries with it an inherent understanding.

I find it strange that so many have difficulty with the concept of duality, because for me it simply doesn't exist, I see it when I look for it but I realize that it's an illusion. I guess imagination has a lot to do with that. Where a lot of people only see opposites, a 'creator' sees endless possibilities... Imagination is the code-breaker.
"yes" and "no" are simple representations of our wants and needs, the concept of "yes" means different things in different circomstances, the intention behind it has different vibration and therefor it isn't an absolute opposite of "no"...
Name any two emotions that you think are dualistic, once you look at an emotion as an energetic translation, or a vibration of your wants and needs, then there is nothing opposite about it since they represent 'different' vibrations, not opposite things.

my two cents (I actually forgot what I was going to write while I was writing the above, lol, it'll come back for another post )

reply to post by CavemanDD

Something to think about... the heart chakra is considered the love, which is considered the truth.. it lies in middle of the chakras, between poles so to speak. Kind of makes you think.. it seems finding the balance in the two is the truth to me but the manner of which it is also transcended into oneness.. what they mean by that.. like I think that's what I'm having trouble with...understanding what these "old masters" mean when they say that.

As you know for a while I did heart meditation and let the other chakras just follow. I opened my heart chakra fully for several months. This gave me a feeling of complete unconditional love and towards the end I had one profound experience where I felt I had transcended duality, I merged with this oneness and no longer felt I was me I became at one with this energy. It was an amazing feeling, like I was no longer me anymore, I had left my body and become an energy of one. Heres the thing with this glimpse of non duality , you dont want to return to duality. For this reason alone I just dont think we are meant to even glimpse what it would be truely like. Im sure what I felt was just a taster as since that day my heart meditation was never the same, I began to feel unbalanced, like Id gone too far . We are manifested within form for a reason and thats to experience duality. Meditation can show us our connection to being but for me it must be done in balance like you do .

reply to post by CavemanDD


You mentioned the repeats in numbers, the harmonies, and it instantly reminded me of this wonderful coast to coast interview of David Serena, The hidden harmonic codes of the universe