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# Transcending Duality: Discussion

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posted on May, 11 2009 @ 07:50 PM
Below is my interpretation of a dualistic reality and how logic fits into it.

INTRODUCTION

The universe seems dualistic in nature of that is expanding truth to me, 1's and 0's, yin and yang, from macro to micro and symbolic... so conceptually, it's interesting that one side of our brain deals with logic while the other deals with imagination.. but it seems to me like imagination is the essence of creation...it is endless possibility and logic is how it is observed.. it takes a form or structure... your computer could be shooting off a bunch of 1 signals but it's when you add those 0's in that you get that binary magic, which is every computer process you observe (programmers stop me if I am wrong).

So it seems to me that you have the essence and the manifestation of, or the observation.. the logic that tries to observe, perceive, construct, explain or imitate the essence.. so you get the balance, this dance.. a back and forth... and it occurred to me one day... "how can you logically explain imagination?" and when I think of that, I think of the golden ratio, the spiral, the representation of a yin/yang (the conic spiral being my choice reference).. and I think of it as being infinitely endless.

Like in mathematics, we have all these repeating digits with no end.. so is there an end or what? Following more digits, tracing back the fractals of creative expression, (logical / observational.)

So that says to me....

You can never satisfy logic completely. (How many times have you seen Spock's logic smashed? ha ha. )

So in that sense.. if I try to use logic to help myself overcome doubt.. well some doubt always remains. It is when I am able to let go and feel it in my heart / "awareness", belief structures detatched, am I able to find release from this struggle.

The fact that it is a struggle is another thing I take note of, for it seems to be that any kind of resistance is to go against the flow, whatever that might be. Our spiritual awareness or whatever you choose to call it, conflicted with that ego-mind that struggles with identity.. it could be our very perception of reality, the struggle itself, that is a denial of our true nature. To deny one's true identity. I learned shortly after I started meditating that once I stopped trying to be something I'm not and just go with the flow that I have found a higher sense of identity. Less guessing/imitating and more BEING.

So to try and put it more clearly how I feel about this.

We'll say we may or may not have a concept of a soul/ego.. a representation of our logical perception of identity. Again, the symbolic references with the words i'm using... to focus on the function or logical aspect but denying the essence(imagination) seems like an incomplete picture. You can use logic to try and explain how something works but again, how I feel about this endless spiral: you could have what seems like a sound, scientific explanation shattered by "co-incidence", "miracle", or just plain cosmic coolness.
(infinite consciousness at work?)

MAKING THE CONNECTIONS

So we'll say, that even though some of us might lack that awareness of a possible "spiritual essence"... the logic mind can still kind of place it's "greater self" on the perceived stage set before us. One might view the deeper aspects of astrology or something of that nature to see repeating patterns and relations, and how even though their very thoughts and actions seem highly individualized, they still fit into a perceivable synchronistic flow.

This seems to be the big ego-smasher for me and to accept that perhaps my seemingly individual thoughts might not be entirely "localized" after-all. Or to take it a step further, that these individual thoughts could be a culmination of cosmic energies/information at work. Perhaps an attitude that might be commonly felt or a symbolic / literal manifestation over an area (limitless?).

So what am I getting at? Well.. if your brain conceptually, or perhaps on the "physical level" represents your qualities, sentience, capabilities of perceiving existence.... then why use only half of it? Eh? Scientists out there, your formula's started as imaginary did they not? And to those who live in imagination land, how can you get anything done?

Perhaps it's a realization that our desires, functions etc..are part of a pattern of information and thus as long as we allow ourselves to be attached to "the simulation", then we experience duality.

So a spaced out, motionless, eventless, existence vs a robotic one?

LOGIC AND DUALITY

People say to me that you can't use logic to become more spiritual and I have to say I can see where they are comming from, but in my opinion, it's my understanding of the dualistic nature that allows me to release attachment from the need to logically define my existence ( an endless spiral to me ). For in doing so, places me in a box with rules, and a filtered perspective. For example.. we see the simulation before us.. we know that our body is impermanent and that we are bounded by "programs" like gravity, temperature, basic living conditions we deem NECESSARY for life as it is familiar to us, depending on perspective etc, (conceptually isn't it all just information that flows or conflicts?).. but in our imagination we are without limit... and perhaps.. just perhaps..if we somehow realize that we have some control over the rules of this situation (power of attraction), then suddenly these "logic limitations" seem to bend as the universe (or consciousness) sees fit.

So at the end of the day... realizing that I can "bend the matrix" isn't going to matter much to me compared to the realization of expanded identity, and awareness of universal duality and consciousness as I experience it.

If you're looking for god, try not placing it in a box.. perhaps this is why the logical types find the god concept so hard to comprehend, because the essence of creation just might be....well...undefineable essence....pure infinite possibility, imagination..of which it expresses itself perhaps through a creator or sub-creators (stars, planets, people)... in acting on our creative expression is excercising our "godly essence" perhaps.

So if you're trying to find "god" or your "divine essence"...try removing any image or representation that comes to mind, and just become aware of it, just BE it. Any meditators out there might relate to what I'm saying... where you feel something undefineable but it's just THERE..

The more I continue like this, the expanded perception, awareness and balance of my being (energies / soul / chakras etc), the more I am able to detach myself from that "energy body" and home in on that "divine sense". And when I mean balance, I mean natural balance, not control... for control to me implies or indicates a struggle that won't last. For example.. i used to struggle to love people, to not be so judgemental.. so I had to excercise control to love.. but when I had a realization of the possible, endless innaccuaracy of my judgements, combined with this sense of a universal flow (that yes, manifests "saints" and "jerkwads").. that I was able to detach myself from the need to judge, (for I accept that I don't know their full story), and to accept people for who they are under the surface of that "cruddy exterior"... to love their essence rather then ego. I mean hey.. if you're a jerk, who likes that? So it's more of a respect and acknowledgement of their deeper place in nature.

In a nutshell, I want to expand my sense of identity, its a calling...and logic, observation/ creative expression is a beautiful thing I respect, but it's in letting go of logical perceptions do I find my "sanity", and find myself. To remove limitations and expectations to me seems key to "seeing the clearest picture." I put quotations because I speak of a picture that is sensed / felt and might not have a literal expression, as Alex Collier's alien buddies call it "The is-ness"

On that note..even though I might talk of love and light, I try to present it as an opinion or belief structure.. for if it transcends a belief structure into a conceptual inner-truth, then how can I truly explain that sense of "divinity"? It could be that you and I have that same truth "within", and it's just a matter of realizing it.

Beware of those who preach their truth as if it's written in stone: your scientists, your priests, and even your "new age philosophers". Belief structures can be limiting.

Before I end, I want to add an open invitation to present us with perfect logic. And I don't mean shapes like cubes or something, but rather logic that explains the essence of imagination / timeless, limitless essence. You just might have the formula for "GOD".

Some say love and light, today I'll say "may you find sanity"

haha.

cheers.

BTW I think these pictures illustrate this universal madness:

Both of which are observational, yet in their observation demonstrate that even though their is a logical pattern, it is possibly infinitely endless, from the micro to macrocosm, all a vantage point, a matter of perspective.

And this was a screenshot taken from a video presentation of Antony Garrett Lisi's E8 Theory, or "Theory of everything."

I just about fell out of my chair when the image formed into that one. I had realized this was an image I had seen in my "3rd eye".

The endless possibilities man.

Moderator-Note: Title changed at OPs request.

[edit on 16-5-2009 by Skyfloating]

posted on May, 11 2009 @ 10:40 PM
Wow... your fight enlights me... and posting here along those lines
is very difficult, because of the multi perception of this conception.

I found myself questioning if this life is supposed to be more as an
individual approach, and as we progress figureing things out we are
suppose to reach inner peace....

or is just let go and let go?

posted on May, 12 2009 @ 03:15 AM
Very interesting read. Ill be honest and say that i did read through your post twice to actually understand what you were trying to say, but it made sense eventually. Or did it...?

I could discuss my own philosophy on this topic but that's for another thread and another day. Your idea is interesting and well thought out though, starred!

Anyone who's interested in "logic" and the thought processes behind it might be interested in this PDF: Philisophy: Symbolic Logic

[edit on 12/5/2009 by serbsta]

posted on May, 12 2009 @ 08:32 AM
Great Read! You have several stars, but only one response. I think your message takes a little while to sink in, or comprehend. I love the Dualistic nature you speak of, and it certainly seems we humans are designed in such a way to comprehend this nature, but we stray one way or the other without finding the balance.

The "undefineable" god should be common sense to all of us. If the god of any religion is as truly awesome as they describe, then how do they expect to identify with it? I have had a very hard time explaining anything to the ants that frequent my back patio, and we are closer in design than a god and a human.

The golden ratio, natural log, and many other math/physics anomalies are a great representation of how our logic is so well-tuned and yet so inadequate. We can observe, measure, and define things in exquisite detail and still not understand them in the slightest. I have not heard it put this way until reading your take on things.

Thanks for the post, I am going to re-read it and check back often to see everyone's response!

posted on May, 12 2009 @ 09:47 AM
I will draw your attention to two tales or parables that are favourites of mine, for me they lead to greater understanding.

Four blind men and an elephant.

Four blind men surround an elephant. The one holding its tail claims its a rope, the one holding its leg claims its a pillar, the one standing touching its side claims its a wall, the one holding its tusk claims its a spear. All of them have the truth, but not until they are able to let go of what they are holding can they move around the elephant to discover the larger picture. One who is listening to them all must accept that they all may speak the truth, to gain greater understanding.

It is in our nature to filter what we hear, and to claim if one thing is true, then it excludes something else from being true - this rarely sems to be the case. To open your mind to everything, without flitering it based on belief, without clasifying it true or false may lead you on the path to understanding.

Separating the wheat from the chaff.

If your not familiar with the process, a large flat pan is filled with threshed wheat, which has husks and stalks and other foreign matter, called chaff, mixed with the grains of wheat. To separate the chaff from the wheat requires you to throw EVERYTHING up into the air together. Then the wind blows away the chaff, and the wheat returns to your pan.

When you discard all preconceptions, all truth, all belief - you will find that true knowledge will always return to you.

Understanding arises from knowledge. Knowledge is neither true nor false, it is simply posibility - to open your mind to all possibility is to seek meaning, rather than truth. Accepting knowledge without filtering is difficult if your mind is filled with truth and belief - they will busily classify things as true or false, rather than freely accepting everything as posibility.

With a mind open to endless posibillity - then the secrets of the universe will reveal themselves to you. They are neither true nor false - they simply are.

On the temple of Apollo;

Know yourself, and the secrets of the gods and universe will reveal themselves to you.

[edit on 12-5-2009 by Amagnon]

posted on May, 12 2009 @ 09:48 AM
Hey Caveman ,

Interesting post, one of the things I have found ,to have an effective imagination, you must first have a full understanding of subject you wish to expand on.
It's easy to think of a butterfly dancing in the wind and changing into a dragon.
But in dealing with things of the depth you speak would not be as simple.
And even in chaos you will find order.
I am still having problems with the dualistic concept, and in the Christ saying you must be single of mind.
I would think if single of mind egos would not fit into picture much.

Another thought on the binary system 1 and 0 this is equal to Yes and no.
You could give a computer a input in alphanumeric but until it was converted in to binary the computer would not be able to understand what it means.
Basic logic would be simular, yes and no, then you have the elaboration on these two facts. But logic is dualistic becoming a multiplex.
Like with Epistemology which is logic, you have question which could be yes or no, then you have the next question as to where did this yes or no come from, if it is factural on what base is this indeed fact.
So the poor computer does no have this capacity, it's either Yes or no.
Unless using Google in which case, did you mean, which could be the beginng of imagination, a question as to other possibiltys.

[edit on 12-5-2009 by googolplex]

posted on May, 12 2009 @ 10:30 AM
hey man, great thread!

...very deserving of the front page!

i have to agree with you here in just about every aspect, especially on the possibly of reality being a fractal itself...

one day while working, i was pondering life like i usually do, and all of a sudden i thought of fractals (i never really thought much of those) and i was trying to apply them to reality, and i swore that i had a breakthrough all to myself!! i became excited, as if i actually solved the biggest riddle of all time!!

i've thought long before, as a child, that what if universes occupy the nucleus of an atom, and what if our universe was inside the nucleus of its own atom?
...just like we don't have microscopes powerful enough to see the smallest parts of a nucleus, we don't have telescopes strong enough to see the "edge" of our universe... what if reality just kept "going", like zooming in on a fractal, infinitely?

as soon as i had a break at work, i rushed to ATS and found this:
"Crop Circles, Cymatics and the Fractal Universe"

i then thought, that if reality is infinite in all aspects, then could there have been a "Big Bang" at all?? it doesn't seem plausible if "time" has always infinitely existed, like the fractal theory hints at...

could the answer be as simple as that then? has man, and reality itself, forever existed with no beginning, or end, because that's just the way it is, and always has been?
has man always been here, and there really is no time at all, just Here and Now? (time is just used as a reference point to help us along the way..)

could this be possible??? can anyone clarify?!

this is all made much more interesting upon viewing these:

kinda makes ya think huh...

[edit on 12-5-2009 by adrenochrome]

posted on May, 12 2009 @ 11:10 AM
Nice. I love this stuff.

Couple things.

Are things dual? or Polar? To me it seems that Polar is a better word to describe what you are saying. This is why Balance is to be strived for, and why the Occult/Theosophy regards Magnetism as the same thing as the intelligent, Omnipresent, Omniscient, Omnipotent Aether, or Chi, or Lifeforce etc. Because without Balance, we would be on one pole or the other too much. AKA Unbalance, or Dischord. Also, there is a fundamental law of harmony that regulates the universe - AKA the Octave - or Seven Notes. I believe this is why 7 is such an important number, and why we should switch to Jose Arguelles's Calendar(13 moon, 28 day).

13 moon, 4x7 day Calendar

We exist by contrast. This is highlighted in the Buddhist principle of Dependent Origination, or Pratityasamutpada. This exists for our 'thoughts' as well.

Stated in another way, everything depends on everything else. A human being's existence in any given moment is dependent on the condition of everything else in the world at that moment, but in an equally significant way, the condition of everything in the world in that moment depends conversely on the character and condition of that human being. Everything in the Universe is interconnected through the web of cause and effect such that the whole and the parts are mutually interdependent. The character and condition of entities at any given time are intimately connected with the character and condition of all other entities that superficially may appear to be unconnected or unrelated.

And yes, the fractals are representative of the hermetic/esoteric/occult principle of the ancients: As above, So Below. Fallen Man was created in the image of God Above. The whole is reflected in the part, the part reflects the whole.

I totally agree with your Logic approach to Spirituality, for that is my path as well. Through the scientific method I found truth, but the truth was somewhere I never thought I would go. Scientifically proven Faith is the best way to have faith, right? Faith in the Universe. Since we are all One, Faith in the Universe equals faith in oneself, Faith in Oneself equals faith in the Universe.

Good stuff.

posted on May, 12 2009 @ 11:11 AM
Logic is not natural, nature is chaos, nature always does things better and more efficiently.

Computers today which are based on binary will soon be over taken by quantum computing which has nothing to do with logic if my understanding of it is correct, as far as i know it is a more "natural" way of doing things.

posted on May, 12 2009 @ 12:13 PM
this reminds me of an explanation given by IBM, regarding their teleportation device. originally, when they sent the information of the object they wished to teleport, it would make a facsimile/copy/clone of the object and send that to the other teleport pad. to do so required completely disrupting the original object. in the case of a living human being, it would theoretically, destroy the human and at the other end a clone of the original would be constructed (not the original). because the original was completely disrupted and not perfectly reconstructed at the other end, it would be the death of the human from which the information was copied. they figured out a way around this, much like the idea of logic being unable to solve some problems initially

here's an excerpt

This sounds like a solid argument against teleportation: if one cannot extract enough information from an object to make a perfect copy, it would seem that a perfect copy cannot be made. But the six scientists found a way to make an end run around this logic, using a celebrated and paradoxical feature of quantum mechanics known as the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen effect. In brief, they found a way to scan out part of the information from an object A, which one wishes to teleport, while causing the remaining, unscanned, part of the information to pass, via the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen effect, into another object C which has never been in contact with A. Later, by applying to C a treatment depending on the scanned-out information, it is possible to maneuver C into exactly the same state as A was in before it was scanned. A itself is no longer in that state, having been thoroughly disrupted by the scanning, so what has been achieved is teleportation, not replication.

www.research.ibm.com...

so i'm guessing what you are talking is like quantum physics.

don't ask me why that seemed relevant. it just popped in my head while i was reading your post.

[edit on 12-5-2009 by undo]

posted on May, 12 2009 @ 12:28 PM
Great contributions from everybody, well put together and interesting perspectives.

Polarity would be a better word for how I interpret duality. When I read a book on T'ai Chi, it really got me thinking more about this polarity as they conceptualized it. Essentially: a presence that encircles infinitely, and another that pushes or rather expands it.. or submissive and direct.

They rely on each other's contrast for meaning it seems... like for instance, i think one of the above posters was hinting at this, i thought this a while ago about binary as yes and no...and I thought.... "How does one understand the value / meaning of yes without a no?"

And I realized that the polarity or contrast leads to understanding like one poster said, but the truth to me seems like something not necessarily umm... can't find the word I'm looking for... unperceivable, unidentifiable...

Basically I'm going to go with Alex Collier's E.T's again... "The isness".. it just is!

At any rate I think of it all like.. the polarity or contrast is just there, interdependent on each other.... like.. if there is a godforce, why does it create? It just does, or IS,.. perhaps to observe and know itself, perhaps this is giving life to the "nothingness". The nothingness itself perhaps lacking meaning without an observer. Its confusing but when I think of the spiral, I give up trying to find the beginning or end and just think its just the way it is... simple to observe yet still seemingly beyond absolute comprehension. That's just where I am right now.

It seems we go trough life like the force extending that conceptual coil yet exist of both parts, we are the process or presence of both and experience our SELF. Where does the next fractal lead? From that I'm sure all our understanding of such things will change as we experience polarity.

Another way to look at polarity is like a frequency. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

How do you observe your life as a frequency? Well... look around... to the largest and smallest part, it doesn't seem to make a difference the vantage point, I feel.

You ever open winamp and watch the little soundwave move? Well what does a sound wave look like in 3 dimensions? I was thinking of an experiment I was told about: putting a fine grain powder/sand on a drumskin and watching it form frequencies.. and I thought wait a minute... frequencies....sounds....vibrations....

Look at the world around you...like mountains.. It's like a 3D sound-wave. And just like the length and complexity of computer code.. it might take several fractals or a long wave to reach the complex vantage point that is human existence.

Duality/ Polarity... Yin, Yang... its cool stuff man. I think there is wisdom in a natural harmony. So why do we as a society try to slant things one way or another?

You don't have to agree with the information comming your way, but what harm is there in listening to it? Openness man, openness...

Great replies everybody.

posted on May, 12 2009 @ 12:31 PM
Cave,

Let me quote you on this line:

People say to me that you can't use logic to become more spiritual and I have to say I can see where they are comming from, but in my opinion, it's my understanding of the dualistic nature that allows me to release attachment from the need to logically define my existence ( an endless spiral to me )

IMHO, logics when dealing with hard core spiritual things like TK and AP,
get fuzzy, strange, weird to the unprepared fella that cant decode that
information.

Example: If someone whom speaks arabic talk to me, its not different
than a dog barking. Why? because i dont have constructs to deal with it,
just the raw material. Translations are needed and the decode starts
functioning when we can understand what the hell that 'noise' coming from
the guys mouth means.

So... when dealing with spiritual things like AP, words are VERY short to
describe that decoding, the feeling, the sensations. When we try to
describe, gets even more complicated, because im using MY constructions
(left brain) to encode what the reader/listener needs to DECODE.

Thats when belief systems comes: most people with very limited logics
would attribut AP like a 'dream within a dream' - 'mind nonsense'.

And when we go to TK, things get radical to the point of denial. THATS OK,
because the observer does not decode TK properly, and his left brain
rejects that information with doubt and fear and denial.

BUT....

We received a brain from nature. A brain with 2 parts. We HAVE to deal
with that and accept that everything that comes from nature is perfect.

So why we say we need to 'study' budhism?
To prepare the decoding of that teaching properly, simple as that.

Books about the energetic body, astral body, they all start with a
workable construct of realty for you to start ACCEPTING.. or its just like a
dog barking.... gibberish stuff.

I find, in some tthreads, that gibberish phenomenon... and when we ask
the person to EXPLAIN to us what is all about - they give some translation
left brain constructs for the information NOT to be rejected and become
more partially processed.

The more we identify patterns the better.
We talk a lot about belief systems and thats whats is all about.

What you decode IS your freaking reality.

Everything else goes to denial and rejection.

Our struggle shows the fighting through left brain constructs to start
accepting raw material that is currently unprocessed and fear related
(reptilians and vampirism anyone?).

So, when you say 'release attachment from the need to logically define
my existence' im trying REALLY HARD to decode that.

I know that belief systems are guardians of reality and they work against
you when you reach their borders.

But dont you agree that higher and higher 'almost' abstract constructions
can work this out, can deal with the powerfull right imaginative holistic
brain?

By the way... brain for me is a bioconstruct to support our entity energetic connection...

posted on May, 12 2009 @ 01:34 PM
reply to post by RobertPaulsim

Great reply man, well "encoded" and "decoded".

I think what your hinting at and after re-reading my post there is something I wish I expressed a little better... that is... that things that seem to defy logic are actual logical processes in themselves, however we define logic that is... what I mean is more stuff that you can either decode or not but the more you expand / elaborate the program... the more it seems to open possibilities that "psychic phenomena" or something of that nature has a logical function and doesn't really go against the code, just fractals off of it. The observation of the essence... and the logic, in its observation, goes on endlessly, becomming infintely elaborate as the spiral goes on.

And its like you said... it seems people introduce a belief structure or reference point unfamiliar to the reader/student or whatever...otherwise... i mean... me posting exactly what my intention is here would be....well.... My post would just say like "just BE, man... just BE"... and no'one might understand the depth of what I mean to imply by that.

I learned a while ago that I didn't ever want to preach, but rather inspire. I don't want you to find my sanity, i want you to find you're own.. you are you're best teacher, however you perceive "you"... again with the sense of identity thing. Getting an external opinion to me is like going on the internet, searching for references to somehow...fit into that self-discovery of ours.

I have a little problem with how information is presented sometimes, and even though the intent might be good, it's confusing and misinterpreted as to how it was intended.

For in some belief structure, they might use imagery and phrases that are meant to make you "decode that".. but yes, it can get confusing, and even kind of piss people off.

Even the intended information must be harmonic as well it seems.

I'm trying to think of a simple example.... say your a "cult leader".. and you say "this is the way it is".. that authoritative expression of information can be confusing and either right away deflected or accepted without "decoding"...and what if that "cult leader" realized or knew the information was intentionally misleading?

I guess what I'm trying to say is what some other poster so eloquently put: Separating the wheat from the chaff."

As an experiment, write down a belief structure you deem to be absolute truth... and then read it in a year and see if it still resonates with you as it did back then.

I try not to accept any absolutes as to leave doors open for new possibilities.

On this site for example, it seems some people are eager to "debunk" something and forget it... "case closed" mentality. You don't have to believe it, but why deny new possibilities, new information?

I think i've taken this a little off course now.

Thanks for the reply robert, I was just commenting. Well said.

posted on May, 12 2009 @ 02:09 PM
This is without doubt one of the best threads I have read this year.

Not only was the OP a fascinating read, but I actaully found that all of the replies have been thought provoking too.

It certainly isn't often a thread of this calibre comes along, but when it does, I appreciate it all the more.

I don't want to add too much more except to say that I have had similar thoughts about life and the "reality" we exist in with a similar slant to what has been already discussed.

I look forward to seeing how this thread progresses.

posted on May, 12 2009 @ 02:19 PM
you hit it out of the park for me/nailed it on the target.. you opened my eyes to new things but the segment on duality and logic.. i have been experiencing the same idea in my brain ... This has happened to me recently almost like an enlightenment... I feel like i have more control of my brain/body.. and recently i have become a believer of string/membrane theory.. interconnections.. "string of events" .. Scientists only answer of the questions of HOW?... but what about WHY?... i don't know what i am saying but i am just trying to best transfer my ideas to words and it is harder than i thought.. but i feel like all this is happening for a reason .. a Truth that is covered up with so much rumble and secrecy like i said i don't know.. but i fell like everything is connected from movies to biblical stories.. religion and science... like i said many times in reply which is not a reply i dont know how to phrase it or say it.. but i am happy that i am not alone.. we all have a purpose after all it was my String of Events that lead me here..

thanks guys
i am sorry this is my post on any forum ...i do not fully understand the proper edict

posted on May, 12 2009 @ 02:20 PM
You see, after reading this last posts, things got a little more clearer for
me, as you approach more into my 'border' so to speak.

I had a little insight just now...

Maybe belief systems are just like vehicles, that had special attributes
and work best inside their limits... like a space station is the best thing
to see things outside the earth orbit, but an off-road car can get you
in places where nature is more raw, more wild.

This vehicles (beliefs) dont decode well things out of their limit, but dont
deny the existance of others... like the off road example, for instance:
you can see the stars brighter off the main cities, but to really see and
experience other planets you have to move to other vehicles and reach
new limits..

This is what sometimes people relate to the low ego and how you travel
conscience through the planes (this outline decoded with logical structure
as energy body, astral body, mental body, etc.. ) into deeper and deeper
of what is REALLY you.

Each body, vehicle has their own troubles to deal with.

Ever saw 'Super nanny'? Lame, I know, but i see this show with my wife
and its great to see this 'genetic spacesuit' of human behaviour in motion
while in observance mode.

Kids, always SEVERELY influentiated by the influence of their bodies with
anything physical (candy, toys, this is mine not yours, etc) seems VERY
UNAWARE of what the hell is spirituality.

They are constantly creating with the right brain (having fun), but their
left brain is SO blunt, and almost without rules, that they ALWAYS do
things wrong and need guidance... every day.

BUT, when kids screw up, super nanny tells their parents to set the child
on the bench and keep there, quiet.

Why quiet???? Of course! To STOP the immense influence of the body, to
develop CONSCIENCE of what they had done wrong....

Aint this what we do to meditate? STOP the body, ignore the surface
mind...

That is why people reject mostly spiritual things when they are young,
too much noise from the 1st level of conection.

So, when they start to understand how to concentrate on tasks, they get
smarter (left brain has the final upper hand)..

and, there is teenage angst, where they right brain struggles to be happy
again, but found the left brain soldiers at bay, telling that you need to work
that being an artist is to be unemployed and etc...

The geratest deception of the human experience is this CRAP passed
from parents that we must DEAL with this world, not CHANGE it to a
better one.

Logics is the way to go. When the decoding starts to process some raw
things you couldnt before, your reality changes.

I see your spiral getting wide, as both right and left push their agendas
in their own kind of way.

Hope people can decode my post!! hahahah

posted on May, 12 2009 @ 03:03 PM
reply to post by CavemanDD

WOW, great and well put together post man! I rarely venture into this forum but WOW, well said! I totally agree. This is why I love ATS, threads like this, I mean we are really advancing on the evolutionary scale when we start discussing things like you are. Great job man, starred,flagged, AND dugg!

EYE OPENING

posted on May, 12 2009 @ 03:14 PM

You can never satisfy logic completely. (How many times have you seen Spock's logic smashed? ha ha. )

You can't satisfy logic because that just isn't the way people work. People are not, no matter how intelligent they become, logical when it comes to emotions. They are bound to be ruled by a non-logical side of themselves at one point in their lives even if they trust in the logical side.

Religion is a great example of this, there are a lot of intelligent people who subscribe to a religious faith. If we're going to think logically religion doesn't make much sense, each religion takes from another and each is rooted in mythology, not reality.

But most of the world is religious to some extent. Most of the world believes a specific, mythological tale told in a dated text.

We need logic and imagination, but no matter how hard one emotionally driven side of you believes in something that doesn't make it real. I think the logical side only conflicts with imagination to help people see where their emotional side can trick them and even separate them from a better awareness of themselves and the world around them.

[edit on 12-5-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

posted on May, 12 2009 @ 03:18 PM
I like these ideas.

I think of the universe as a flow, through a continual process of creation and observation, and of differentiation and reintegration, whereby the percieved duality is a fuzzy thing, and really nothing more than a contrast in order to generate meaning, whereby the meaning assigned is arbitrary, and yet formative and ubiquitous. The logos serves the creative I think, by giving meaning to form, and the creative serves the logos by giving it something to observe, and so it's like a marriage, out of which arises a continual creation and a continual fractal flow. Conceptions like time and causation, these are attempts by logic to impose order by slicing reality and assigning a meaning to it, which though a neccessity, does not capture reality which continues to flow unimpeded by logic.

I think that logic, married to spirit (creative intuitive oneness), may be likened to the marriage of the bride and the lamb depicted in the book of Revelations, which manifest as two trees of life on either side of a river through which eternally flows the water of life. In other words the human mind rightfully balanced and in harmony with the mind of God.

Interestingly the word "word" in the opening of the Gospel of John is really LOGOS, who's root is logic. In other words Jesus was as much a logician as he was a person married to spirit or identified with spirit as creator.

P.S. For anyone interested in becoming their own "techno shamen" and synchronizing the left and right hemispheres of their brain to produce a more holistic whole brain functioning, the result of which percieved duality and separation begins to fade ie: becoming more one with everything, I highly recommend this program and process
Holosync by Centerpointe
www.centerpointe.com...
The science supporting it
www.centerpointe.com...
The Biology of the Inner Light
cacaoist.blog.com...

I would also like to recommend this book regarding the deep structure of reality
The Holographic Universe
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242160862&sr=8-1

[edit on 12-5-2009 by OmegaPoint]

posted on May, 12 2009 @ 03:21 PM
yes man.. we are learning to detach selves from what we thought was important ... and start to question the very existence of man... and im only 20 haha.. i feel like i have learned more since Easter Sunday ( when i had my little Revelation) then i have my entire life.. but that was false .. everything is just interlocking now and making a larger structure metaphorically speaking..

This is a theory that i was working on..
what if string theory is some what accurate or part of the puzzle.. in which how are we all connected?

What if gravity the force that we know is there and as an effect on everything we all have gravity particles in us and all around us.. what if ideas in my brain and feelings and emotions all have particles and maybe when we think of them or speak of them our gravitational force pulls it closer or maybe even in us? i don't know this could be a possible theory out there since this just pop in my head after i put together a few pieces from different... like i said many many times i have no idea if this is true... and why it makes so much sense .. but i feel like some how we can focus our energy and not just mine i mean OUR .. i have no idea i am just glad i am not the only one.. it is truly a relief...

according to my beliefs everything that is happening right now and at every moment is for a purpose .. me meeting you and interacting is for a reason..

honestly i just ramble on and on... i think all i am trying to do is clear the fog in my head hahaha..

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