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CIA terror suspects kept awake for 11 days

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posted on May, 10 2009 @ 08:02 PM
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CIA terror suspects kept awake for 11 days


www.timesonline.co.uk

More than 25 of the CIA's war-on-terror prisoners were subjected to sleep deprivation for as long as 11 days at a time during the administration of former president George Bush, according to The Los Angeles Times.

At one stage during the war on terror, the Central Intelligence Agency was allowed to keep prisoners awake for as long as 11 days, the Times reported, citing memoranda made public by the Justice department last month.

The limit was later reduced to just over a week, the report stated.

Sleep deprivation was one of the most important elements in the CIA's interrogation progr
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on May, 10 2009 @ 08:02 PM
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Has there ever been a proven case of such treatment of prisoners actually rendering useful information ?

I know that the protection of public safety doesn't rest on my shoulders and I know its so easy for me to come here and say oh how wrong the C.I.A is to do such things , which I do believe is the case , but is this what we want our government doing on our behalf ?

Yes I am also aware that there are other countries do practice similar methods of persuasion and in some cases these countries practice far worse tactics , does that make it ok for us when we do similar things as a means for gathering info , assuming these tactics even work ?

www.timesonline.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 10-5-2009 by Max_TO]



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 08:34 PM
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Hello,


Enjoy the reading.

www.gwu.edu...



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 12:35 AM
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reply to post by tristar
 


Very troubling indeed .

Thanks for posting the link .



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 12:51 AM
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11 days??I knew crank heads that did 11 days easy...To them selves...



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 12:57 AM
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Big whoop!

In both Special Forces and Ranger training, they would ride us to keep going for a couple weeks.

I learned to sleep standing up, and I also learned that after the third day, I would not only hallucinate in broad daylight, but could even get used to that.

Sleep deprivation.

Yawn!



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 01:03 AM
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Think of it this way.

We just trained them to think under extreme exhaustion. That type of training is generally reserved for our spec ops.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 01:30 AM
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Originally posted by Redpillblues
11 days??I knew crank heads that did 11 days easy...To them selves...



Yea but they had drugs in their body helping them do that you idiot. Way to try to be funny and not be even close at all.

We all love sleep. Imagine just 3 days without it you'd be goin crazy.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 01:38 AM
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reply to post by LucidDreamer85
 

Joke yes,I have imagined it,just as Dooper said,it is trained in Sf..I have done it to my self out of nessecity..Did i like it? no, did I die?


Its not the end of the world like people make it out to be like this thread..

Next thing it will be we didnt have an air conditioner in there cells..



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 01:54 AM
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Yea but they had drugs in their body helping them do that you idiot. Way to try to be funny and not be even close at all. We all love sleep. Imagine just 3 days without it you'd be goin crazy.


Completely agree. More then 3 days with NO stimulants whatsoever? No coffee, no-doze or anything? In a prison situation, while other forms of torture are being practiced on you, under extreme duress? While being interrogated?

Don't forget. It's not just sleep deprivation, but a combination of techniques being performed at once. No sleep + Very Loud Metal Music + 'relaxation' drugs + interrogation + frequent change on location/interrogator = ????

And there's little reward for being so big and tough. You just keep getting put thru the process 'till you realise this. There is no escape, and unless you begin talking there's no chance it will stop. You'd just go from roster to roster, having every torture technique performed on you until they get the mix just right and you begin to babble what little info you have.

Anyone that says they could resist such a torture should post a vid on youtube after about 4 days without sleep just trying to a do some maths exams, or just hold a normal conversation with another person. Try to win a debate with a normal person on a subject you both know about.

The results would speak for themselves. (Hey I'm not claiming I'm 100% right, I just want to see someone do this to prove a point) Come on all you posters that claim they could resist this - Now is your chance to prove something rather then just talk...



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 02:01 AM
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Originally posted by dooper
Big whoop!

In both Special Forces and Ranger training, they would ride us to keep going for a couple weeks.

I learned to sleep standing up, and I also learned that after the third day, I would not only hallucinate in broad daylight, but could even get used to that.

Sleep deprivation.

Yawn!


Well their indoctrination process, of which sleep deprivation was a part of, obviously works.


I've said this a few times already, but ill repeat it again.

Torture is torture whether it's psychological or physical and the fact remains that in a civilized society that is governed by laws and not tyrants, the accused are afforded certain rights in order to protect the innocent. It's a fundamental difference between the modern legal system and the dark ages which our enemies seem to be living in.

By compromising on this matter we do more damage to the foundations of our society than our enemies could ever hope to accomplish.

(one last edit) Where are the 'staunch constitutionalists' on this issue?

[edit on 11-5-2009 by milesp]



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 02:10 AM
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reply to post by milesp
 


And I"VE said THIS before.

Constitutional rights are conferred here in the continental US, are guaranteed to citizens, although non-citizens may benefit, AGAINST criminal charges and civil torts.

They do not apply to the military.

They do not apply overseas.

They do not apply in WAR.

Get it?



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 02:17 AM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Oh, I get it.

The affirmation of our god given rights as outlined by the constitution we as a nation hold in the highest regard only apply to us.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 02:20 AM
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Constitutional rights are conferred here in the continental US, are guaranteed to citizens, although non-citizens may benefit, AGAINST criminal charges and civil torts. They do not apply to the military. They do not apply overseas. They do not apply in WAR. Get it?


So you invade my country, arrest me and throw me in Gitmo. Do you actually have any right to violate my native country's civil rights (where I am a citizen)?

Or has this bag of # war blown up so much we're all pretty much slinging handfuls of crap at anyone that we suspect, and to hell with acting civilized?

The erosion of civil rights in America is doing far more damage then the 'terrorists' could ever do. Damage to your infrastructure, population and overseas standing.

It's like you're poisoning your own water hole just to stop someone else from taking a drink.

I would rather be in danger in a free land then safe and secure in a prison country.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 02:22 AM
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reply to post by milesp
 

Miles, come on, man. You know better than that. Think about it.

How is our Constitutional rights to have any authority outside the US?

There are no Constitutional rights in war. You find him, you kill him. You don't read him Miranda. You kill the SOB right there and right then.

Ever hear of a killing in self defense? They call it a justifiable homicide? Well, that dead turd didn't get due process either, did he?

It's not enough to know what our Constitution says, although most people have little idea, you also have to know when it applies, to whom, where, and under what circumstances.

These guys have no Constitutional rights.

Never did.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 02:28 AM
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reply to post by dooper
 


You come on man. The reason we have these rights is because people fought and died for them. They did that because they believed that humanity as a whole should not have to endure the tyranny they were subjected to.

They secured those rights for you and it is an insult of the highest order to their legacy to believe that we as a nation should not extend those rights to others, no matter how despicable they might be.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 02:39 AM
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The trick to this technique of interrogation, as anyone familiar with it might tell you, is to create a baseline break between the reality experienced by the subject and the determinable projection of their environment. With such, and the means to maintain such a state in an enduring manner, beyond the natural necessity of periodic and expected mental reconciliation, certain specific psychological aspects or realities are forced into expression. This happens immediately before the necessity of physiological capitulation.

The claim that "torture reveals no useful information" ignores the potential data that can be gleaned via cumulative analysis of such phenomena.

The long-term effects of such practices are both enduring, and subtle. Those who claim significant moral distinction between "measurable physical harm" and the psychic impact caused by the application of these techniques either 1) have no true understanding, or 2) are inadvertently or deliberately advocating evil.


[edit on May 11th 2009 by Ian McLean]



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 02:44 AM
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maybe the focus should be less on US civil rights, and more on the individuals rights under international law.

Why do some people drone on about the US Constitution and civil rights? It's been elevated to pop-star status, with no real meaning left in it.

My country has a constitution to and so do many others. You have no right to impose your 'rights' onto me.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 03:00 AM
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reply to post by shamus78
 


I'm 'droning on' about US civil rights because they should be held in high regard by Americans like myself. I'm trying to make the point that it's not only the wording of our constitution that matters, but the spirit of the document as well.

If people like dooper realize this, they would be more likely to see the legitimacy of international treaties like the geneva conventions or the universal declaration of human rights instead of looking for loopholes in the law to justify heinous acts.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 03:10 AM
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reply to post by milesp
 


Huh? I can see how you're trying to give the ideological balanced argument, but really, there's no need to do that.

The Constitution, in many places, clearly states "no person" and "in all criminal prosecutions". In no place does it state that a member of "the people", when applied to God-given rights, only includes "We, the people of the United States".

Those who claim that the restrictions about how the US Government should deal with humans only apply to US Citizens, well - those people are full of crap.




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