the longer I am here, the less I believe

reply to post by munkey66


Congrats for bringing up pertinent issues as to the nature of blind belief versus separating the wheat from the chaff with a little discerning wisdom and thorough all-round research!

The problem is; alot of what we have to go by are ambiguous at best and often implausible snippets and urban myths around which so-called facts are created, from this source and that, all viewed from our position of "armchair experts", unless of course we believe because we have seen with our own eyes, and decided that there is sufficient proof.

Further to this, the fact that creating a ghost or UFO on video is now readily available to anyone with the right software, doesn't help our discerning what is true or not. The internet is rife with disinformation. The paranormal has become big business (look at Most Haunted), but does that validate the subject matter? Er no! It's just light-hearted entertainment. Most Haunted has never picked up anything to my view which substantiated ghostly activity enough to shut the skeptic up for good.

The fact is, if you believe simply what you see at face value, or because someone sounds convincing, or because it bolsters your existing beliefs, or indeed because it is posted on ATS...then I would say you need to develop more discernment and take more risks with your belief system. 90% of what's out there is fabrication and fluff - however there will always be the 10% which is well documented and cannot be easily disproved or debunked. That is what I am seriously interested in.

I am quite prepared to read the skeptics or "scientist's" viewpoint. I will watch Susan Blackmore debunk consciousness surviving death not because she is aligned to my standpoint (to any degree!) but because I want to know the TRUTH, and knowing the truth means being prepared to investigate from every angle of thought, even the ones which contradict what we believe.

It is there that somehow, through all the half-truths and grandious claims, battling belief and non-belief, that a trend tends to emerge which supports (in my opinion anyway) the existence of UFOs and paranormal phenomena.

One word that had always intrigued me is interfere.

Let's just take what I am saying here as fact for a minute so there aren't any squabbles about Aliens and if they are real or not.

I was told by the being I go to the following:

We are not here to interfere and would only confer to interfere one time and that is if you were about to destroy Earth, if you destroyed Earth you would destroy our Laboratory.

Now, it all depends how you want to look at this word and by whom. We as humans especially the abductee's/experiencer's can easily say they are interfering in my life and they would be correct.......HOWEVER, they have been here in the deepest of our waters for far longer then the human has been and they consider Earth thier's so to them they are not interfering.

It is just like a catch 22

Now I'm done so those that believe can believe (your right they exist) and those that don't believe continue down your path.

reply to post by MrSmith


It seems to me the reality of the situation in the world is that the truth can be known if you really seek it out honestly, but you will have absolutely no power/pull to actually do anything about it, nor will it ever be accepted by mainstream as truth.

In the end, I have learned that I can not trust any man, that I can not trust any authority, and that I simply can not just accept what anyone tells me as being true. Unless I was there, I really have no way of knowing.

So I have adjusted to focusing more on what is good/bad, the level of thinking being applied to the topic. Level of thinking is my biggest gripe among most people. I honestly no longer really care about who did this, or what did this. It's no way of making wise choices IMO. I do care about the actions themselves and how they were able to be done/possible.

Ahh, I gotta stop here before I go on a big long rant. Sometimes I think being able to see the difference in levels and ways of thinking is my own personal hell, it's hard watching people acting on and appealing to biases.

I like the quotes in your sig, you probably already know these, but here are some songs they reminded me of just in case.

www.azlyrics.com...



arts.ucsc.edu...

i completely agree. i joined a few months ago because i had found some interesting topics about ancient history and "green" tech that could be reused even today. but those topics appear few and far in between. what's worse is that the lunacy tends to run high especially in political views. secession, paranoid fear of the govt, racism, violence advocacy, depopulation, 2012, web bot, flu hysteria as well as "if you're trying to be logical and debunk you're a disinfo agent" mentality have turned me off. IMHO if you're posting anything it's your responsibility to present proof of your claim, not make others (dis)prove it because you're already convinced of the "facts". i'm back to being the occasional lurker now. it's a waste of time to try to convince people who already believe they have the supreme knowledge in all fields. it feels more and more like some of the regulars are a collection of intolerant fringe individuals who do not want an open debate but rather insist on having it their way or no way. pretty much like listening to AM talk radio.

i used to love the X-files when it came out 15 years ago but i did not make it a 24/7 lifestyle. too bad, it looked like a promising board. if anything this site has made me more of a skeptic of anything that's a potential conspiracy. but I'm not giving up yet, I'm sure there are smart people on this board who are not haunted by daily visions of the apocalypse and who may want to be involved in civilized debate.

reply to post by munkey66


I mostly just have points to make.

There are some things that can't be substantiated by evidence. Seeing a ghost or a bigfoot. First, most might be too amazed at what they are seeing to think of running and grabbing a camera as they yell "stay right there Mr. Bigfoot, let me get my camera". Second, how do you get physical evidence of things that may (or may not) be of this world/dimension?

Please, please don't take my reply as any kind of ridicule. I completely understand where you are coming from. I too see some threads that are a waste of time.

But, here on ATS, there are ALL KINDS of people.

Those who believe EVERYTHING

Those who take everything with a grain of salt (this is where I fall in).

Some who have a certain niche of things they believe in. For example, some may believe every government conspiracy but not believe that aliens are real.

And then there are some who, for some reason, only come to this forum to tell everyone how retarded they are for believing all this crap. I never understand why those people come here just to waste their energies belittling people who have no effect on their life.

But this is what is great about ATS. It's just like living in the mainstream. Most of it is all a bunch of lies and fear mongering, but sometimes you find that one tidbit of information that somehow made it to light and has everyone guessing. Only, here on ATS, while the story is quickly explained away as flares tied to balloons, magic bullets, and "he really meant to say..." in the mainstream, most of us here know better.

On ATS there's stories of little value and things that can easily be explained away, but it's when you find that one thing that has you wondering if everything is not as it seems that it becomes worth while.

Anyone can say a decomposed dog is really an unknown monster/alien species. And at the same time, anyone can say an unknown species is really just a decomposed dog. Where's the proof on either side?

That's the problem with conspiracies and cover-ups. It's really hard to tell up from down.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
It's kind of how things run around here. There are cycles. There are people who come and go, some want to make lots of points, some want to make friends, some want to preach their ideas non-stop in repeating threads.

Some people have something actually important to say and worthwhile to listen to.

And those people are why it's worth hanging around.

It takes a lot of work not to just "believe" everything that you read on here. But it's a good skill to have, and it teaches you more about your own beliefs in the long run.

I'm a returning newb here (joined years ago but stopped coming) this is the way of All the BBS I've joined, weather it's Computers, Off-roading, or needle-pointing. There are always those that just feel the need to "chime in" weather they have actual facts to convey or just feel the need to "post pad".
The best defense is to ignore the bull-shevik and find and reply to the threads that interest you.

Oh and never feed a troll :-)

Peace.

Mark

[edit on 5-5-2009 by BigMark]

Originally posted by observe50
One word that had always intrigued me is interfere.

Let's just take what I am saying here as fact for a minute so there aren't any squabbles about Aliens and if they are real or not.

I was told by the being I go to the following:

We are not here to interfere and would only confer to interfere one time and that is if you were about to destroy Earth, if you destroyed Earth you would destroy our Laboratory.

Now, it all depends how you want to look at this word and by whom. We as humans especially the abductee's/experiencer's can easily say they are interfering in my life and they would be correct.......HOWEVER, they have been here in the deepest of our waters for far longer then the human has been and they consider Earth thier's so to them they are not interfering.

It is just like a catch 22

Now I'm done so those that believe can believe (your right they exist) and those that don't believe continue down your path.

Interesting, but here is my question - does it actually matter if it's an alien, god, angels, the government or the guy down the street who is doing it?

Is an action different because an alien does it, than if a government did it?

See to me, it's not about if it's an alien doing it, some secret government program, or just people generally misguided. If the action and such is the same, then if it is good or bad should be based on the action itself, rather than based on who is doing it.

The biggest reason I don't go to the UFO forums is because a good many of the people who post there seem to want to use aliens for political gain. The general assumption being that because they are aliens they are far more superior, and thus an authority and so if they say to do something it is by default right. But if another entity, such as a human were to say the same things, then it is by default wrong.

This is what I would call a low level of thinking. The thinking here is not being applied towards the actions, but based only on who to treat as an authority, of which as all authority expects, is to be accepted and followed. It should not be a matter of who is doing it, but a matter of if what is being done is good or bad. But the logic these people are following is - they are more technologically advanced, they must be right. That is the kind of thing that bugs me.

But I do agree perspective on things has a good bit to do with it. Take a story from the bible - the tower of babel. It seems to hint towards aliens, or atleast non-earthly beings and inteference so I think it kind of fits with your example.

That story seems very bad at first, but upon a deeper look into a bigger perspective it actually makes sense to me. When I first read that, I was thinking - wow they just created a bunch of war on this planet and such. But the reality of the story is that nobody forced the people on the earth to fight after, it was only because we did not have the same culture and such that we fought. And that means that if we had been allowed out in the universe, we would have as a species done the same thing against other beings. So at that point I can kind of understand why it was done, but if one looks at it from the perspective of only earth, then it would seem to be a bad thing.

But at the end of the day, I can only come to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter if it was aliens, god, angels or flying blue elephants that did it. The reasoning and actions behind it is the important thing.

So what I really don't believe anymore are the who's and what's, I still believe in the actions and that the actions do happen. I still believe there is life outside the earth etc. But when you have 2 people and they are arguing that it's the aliens doing the bad things, or it's the government thats doing the bad things, or some secret group of people, my eyes start to glaze over.

Good information and good approach. The problem with conspiracies is that people want to believe and some people are willing to deny logical conclusions to do so. It is very healthy to balance skepticism with any belief. Always throw in some skepticism first before you believe as it will find its own way to be true or not. Most things have a logical conclusion but the thing is people will deny it to have something to believe or to have something of interest. Just like religion.

Truth offers no comfort and does not usually have room for jumping to conclusions as is seen on ATS multiple times. S&F!

[edit on 5-5-2009 by N3krostatic]

reply to post by ravenshadow13


ya I look at it that it it leads to healthy debate and different probablities it makes me think outside the box. it sort of is a think tank. I don't prescribe to all the same beliefs on here though but I don't think everyone else does either. It just is a free speech place.
I for one don't believe in the Jews taking over the world or the illuminati etc but it is fun to read. But I also am an American and know that it is great that other people can be free and believe that.
I also don't believe in aliens but it is so cool to see other people that do. I for one just don't have the time to study up on aliens etc.
We are all just individual snowflakes and it is cool to see what everyone is into or researching.
For instance I just looked up swine flu and astrology. just for fun
blog.beliefnet.com...

reply to post by munkey66


I agree with you 100%

you forgot the usual "OMG The DJI dipped 0.000000001% its a depression! The sky is falling !!! NWO NWO!!"

oh, don't forget "OMG Gas prices went up 0.0000000001 cents! PEAK OIL PEAK OIL!!"

When I first came here, I was impressed with the content, and people, even well known posters saying publicly "Hmm, this looks like a simple case of (plausible explanation)" Now you have some of these self same posters going on at nay-sayers saying that this is a conspiracy theory board, we should entertain all possibilities, (no matter how hairbrained). So it went fro mostly intriguing to a mostly entertaining moron-a-thon and crapfest. Let's face it, due to its popularity, the site has lost a huge amount of its credibility.

Originally posted by munkey66
It isn't so much which side to put ones logic in, my main gripe is when a poster has his question answered by someone with sources and quotes as well as a legal document signed by a judge just 2 or 3 posts down from the OP with 500 stars and someone still claims it is a manbearpig and then gives reasons why it is with no sources and then gets 300 stars.

So what you're saying is ATS sux and the people that come here are morons? Just trying to summarize and get your perspective.

Yes.

I usually just keep my mouth shut and don't say much, but this is legitimately something that has happened to me.

I chalk it up to the nature of mystery. Things that are mysterious usually win my attention. I feel as if there is something to be done. Facts to be found and a greater truth to uncover, but the more time I mosey around here, the less mysterious things seem. The part that irks me: it's not because anything was solved, it's because of some of the clowns that are also interested in said threads that just turn me off with their outlandish and matter-of-fact responses to a given topic. It makes me question if I sound like that. Do I stand on the same crazy assumptions? Do I omit facts to prove a truth that I hope is as elegant and meaningful as I can imagine?

Nonetheless, I have learned quite a bit from my time here. I can better organize my arguments and voice my opinions. Most importantly, I don't get as angry about people spreading misinformation. I have the ability to just read it and get a good laugh out of it. I must say, among my guilty pleasures, 2012 threads. Ohhh man! Nothing starts the day off better then some "NEW UNDENIABLE EVIDENCE". "OHH NOES! LOOK! THERE'S A SPOT IN FRONT OF THE SUN!!!111"

As long as you're aware of what is garbage and what is credible, just have some fun.

PS Anyone else just find themselves scrolling through threads and only reading the responses of the select members that you know are credible?

not to be rude, but the contents of this could be applied to the media, corporations, or our government. as no one has a clue what is really going on and its just speculation, so please dont be so hard on this sight, as i get most of my news from hear, as the National Inquire has gone to the far side

reply to post by munkey66



The longer I am here, the more I read and think about issues.

There are always fooks that will make up stories for silly / stupid reasons. But let's not forget those who try to research honestly and sincere. Who share their info with others with nothing but good / pure intensions.

Maybe some people suffer from a 'Monkey see, monkey do' syndrome?

For me is important that I share my experiences, wheither people believe them or not is not an issue for me.

Peace!

Badmedia,

Excellent post and I understand what you are saying.

Your right if this happened human to human why should there be a difference if it is alien to human.

This is hard to explain really.

What the human has been taught isn't exactly the way things were/are. Many things have been twisted to work for a persons benefit such as the Vatican as an example, I know this isn't making much sense.

Let me try it this way:

Earth is known as the "Laboratory" it isn't really our's we only think it is our's. "Everything that is"........ is the way it has always been done but people are learning to expand there brain knowledge and they are coming to the conclusion they don't like it.

From what I know all I can say is just about (or maybe being kinder) almost everything we were taught is not right.

I tried to explain this before and as you can tell to write it down isn't easy because words are misunderstood.

In plain English the best I can tell you is your nothing but a Lab specimen. They either treat you like a pet, treat you like a testing specimen or they let you roam free until....................................doesn't matter if you like it this is the way it is.















[edit on 5-5-2009 by observe50]

If we was not here ,then where would we be ?????
this site would not happen ,because the moderator would look in every day,week,month,there is no one here and so the moderator goes away, think about it, now we are appreciated EH, 8¬)
fly away peter fly away paul,Come back peter ,come back paul.

Another thought, we are informed on the news about a PANDEMIC swine flu, this is serious business and yet most of us still go about our life without the precautions, LOOK AROUND YOU.
At least with ATS you are informed of dangers early, whether we act or not, well thats life.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
So what you're saying is ATS sux and the people that come here are morons? Just trying to summarize and get your perspective.

Not at all.
There are many well read and educated people here, and you find that people who just discover conspiracies tend to jump in with both feet and believe everyting they see, some people get credability from reseach and giving sources, others gain fame by getting lots of stars and flags because they know which emotional button to push.

Now when they try and get some information they may first see just how many flags or stars in a persons post and be of the opinion that this person knows what they are talking about because of that number.

I have seen threads go on for page after page even after it was proved in the first page that there was misinformation, yet people tend to overlook those posts for the heavily starred replies.

I was new here once myself with the hope of finding the truth, the truth is' There are conspiracies and there looks to be a pattern forming.
war repeats itself and we are all trying to figure out who and when?, we pretty much have figured out the why.
The economy is going the way it is by design and it doeasn't matter if we landed on the moon or not.

The federation of light never turned up,
nearly all predictions have failed and those which look like they have come true is only because you can see the similarities when looking at it from hind sight.

Now I am not saying that aliens are not real or that people do not have preminitions, but we must be careful not to start believing everything we read because it has stars and flags.

reply to post by stmichael


I am not saying that the site of no value, on the contrary, I believe this is a most valuable site with much to offer.
Iread all types of posts and have to admit that some can make some intersting and thought provoking ideas.
I am not saying that people shouldn't express their views or share their beliefs, that is the wonderful thing about this site.

I think the problem lies when someone posts a thread and then it gets an actual answer and the answer is over looked for a conspiracy that does not really exist and people debate the conspiracy.

like old CGI ufo clips that have been proven fake will always have someone say S&F for you my friend, nice find, I will be interested in what the debunkers have to say.

Originally posted by munkey66
reply to post by stmichael

 

I think the problem lies when someone posts a thread and then it gets an actual answer and the answer is over looked for a conspiracy that does not really exist and people debate the conspiracy.

like old CGI ufo clips that have been proven fake will always have someone say S&F for you my friend, nice find, I will be interested in what the debunkers have to say.

1. Some threads are so long that people don't take the time to read EVERY comment posted in that thread. It seems that people try to answer the OP's question or give their opinion on the 1st post in a thread.

Yea I'm guilty, kinda thinking of it, I have that a few times myself.

2. ATS is a growing community with a flow of new subscribers coming in al the time. For those it's very hard to find their way around on ATS at the beginning. Plus they do not know that some footage/ideas/questions have been on before.

My experience on ATS is that the mods do a very good job to check out every new thread and close them with a link to prior thread(s) about a subject/issue.

3. Let's not forget that debunking are often also theories. IF you expect a REAL DEBUNKING I do not believe that can be done on ATS itsef. One needs too many and different tools to check out footage and such.

4. As for the Federation of Light that has not come (or did it?) it's a matter of perspective in my opinion.
LIGHT = where there are NO shadows, knowledge, openness
Federation = a collective
Federation of Light = a collective of LIGHT, knowledge, openness etc.

If one is able to see that around the globe there is an enormous growing AWARENESS of ALL kind of ideas / issues that are written about on ATS and that ATS itself has growed enormousy then one could state that the FOL has landed

Peace!