Think about this idea on christ and the antichrist for once.

I just decided to add this idea up on ATS too, so just role with me on this one...

If people say that Jesus would come, but then an antichrist comes, then how the heck can they tell if someone is real or not??

People wont trust anyone but themselves, so if there was a false prophet or an Anti-Christ per-se. The Christians would probably throw off the real christ, and not the Anti-Christ if this happens.

Can this show that Christians can be untrustworthy to their own savior, and that all people can be paranoid by their own idea of fear?

I thaught about that a time or two. It occoured to me once that Christ could be the anti-christ. Just look at the christians in the world they use christ as a scape goat to break most all laws of the old testament. From what we eat to how we bathe but hey through the blood we were all saved right.

[edit on 3-5-2009 by b_rite_alwayz]

I know a man that claims that the Christ and the Antichrist are one and the same... Seems the descriptions of each are very similar.

Anyway, since I hold no dogma, I am probably not a good one to answer your questions.

To extend the OP, how do Christian know that their God won the war in Heaven? If the "Great Deceiver" won, why wouldn't he assume the godhead, even if his ultimate aim was evil?

In other words, "The Bible, ultimate proof that the winner writes the history."

Im a Catholic, for info purposes. I believe the Antichrist is supposed to come and be pretty active here on Earth. Once he assembles the army, real Christ is supposed to come down, speak some words from the bible on God's truths, and his words are supposed to kill the armies. Apparently, these armies will be so big that their blood and flesh feeds tons of animals and fills valleys.

Have faith.

Edited to add: Im not confirming this, but I think I read that God had more angels on his side for the Battle of Heaven? That helps usually . Terrible ATS decorum on my part, I apologize, I should do some research but the CPA exam stinks and I have Church in 30 mins (haha)

Yaay all-powerful God! Boo Lucifer

[edit on 3-5-2009 by vonholland]

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
To extend the OP, how do Christian know that their God won the war in Heaven? If the "Great Deceiver" won, why wouldn't he assume the godhead, even if his ultimate aim was evil?

In other words, "The Bible, ultimate proof that the winner writes the history."

Understood, and

Originally posted by Amaterasu
I know a man that claims that the Christ and the Antichrist are one and the same... Seems the descriptions of each are very similar.

Anyway, since I hold no dogma, I am probably not a good one to answer your questions.

Well, all I am doing is contributing to ATS really

I'm not really a christian, but that confused me alot when i WAS though

There is a specific and deliberate chronology in the Bible for the appearance of both the anti-Christ and Christ. There are also distinguishing characteristics for both, including signal events that herald the arrival of Christ.

If you are a Christian who has looked into the matter, there won't be any question about who is who.

Eric

Originally posted by EricDIf you are a Christian who has looked into the matter, there won't be any question about who is who.

Eric

Unless the people who wrote the bible lied. Ever wonder WHY you're supposed to take it on "faith" and without question? Does that really sound like a secure god or does it sound like a controlling god who is trying to make sure nobody thinks about what they're reading?

Originally posted by Gawdzilla

Originally posted by EricDIf you are a Christian who has looked into the matter, there won't be any question about who is who.

Eric

Unless the people who wrote the bible lied. Ever wonder WHY you're supposed to take it on "faith" and without question? Does that really sound like a secure god or does it sound like a controlling god who is trying to make sure nobody thinks about what they're reading?

It's only the church and such that say "faith" all the time.

www.biblegateway.com...

Psalm 82

2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

Those who just accept what they told will not understand, walk on in darkness and so forth. ALL the foundations of the earth(what people consider authority and credible) are out of course and they try to force people to accept what is said.

Proverbs 8
7For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.

8All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.

9They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.

10Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.

11For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.

See, if you accept then you will not understand. There is a difference in "faith", and blind faith. Blind faith is just to accept what is told. "Blind" and thus they walk in darkness. I don't have blind faith, but I do have faith that my understandings and such are true.

How does one find knowledge? By seeking. How does one seek? By asking questions, knocking on doors and so on.

The christian religion/church is built on accepting, and they are the ones who teach what you describe. As they are a "foundation" or institute of the earth, they are also "out of course".

You should seriously come to understand what is being said in the bible on your own, rather than allowing everyone else to define it for you based on their claims. I know people say what you are talking about, and quite often if not a majority. But that is not what it really being said.

Organized religion = bad. The wisdom and understanding under the religions = good.

reply to post by badmedia


Amazingly sharp knife, to cut a single hair into so many strands. However, the fact remains, religious people are stuck with faith until they outgrow it.

reply to post by Shoomoo


From what's implied in the Bible. Christ and the Anti-Christ isn't the same. But the anti-Christ will be so 'good' impersonating and acting like Christ that even the hardcore Christians will be deceived.

Why would the anti-Christ come, curse the heavens, and round up all who don't worship him and execute them right then and there. That's very obvious isn't it. Who would believe him in that manner. Rather he would be 'nice' at the beginning and show his teeth later.

Oh, and on the topic of christ vs anti-christ. The way you can tell is in their actions and understandings(fruits as it is called).

Christs actions and understandings would be those of Jesus etc, and the anti-christ would be someone who gives lip service to those things, but then doesn't actually do them in practice.

It is like what GWB did with "promoting freedom" and all that kind of double talk. Always talking about "protecting freedom", and does things in the name of "freedom", but then when you look at what he did, you will see he took away tons of civil rights and freedoms. And for the record, still haven't gotten them back, even under Obama and "change".

On the outside, they will appear alike. Nobody is going to say - hey elect me so I can enslave you all! And that is how so many are deceived, but those with understanding would be able to tell the difference.

Personally, I cringe and "run" from people who praise things heavily, like flags, countries, religions and so forth. Such is "sheeps clothing". They put and praise all those things to keep you from looking at them deeper, just as GWB did with "christians" etc. Claims to be a christian, but then does things that are not in line with what it's actually about. And of course, this is all "justified" in the name of "security".

So look towards understandings and actions rather than symbolisms and what someone claims. That will be the only way one could tell. I don't know about the whole anti-christ/christ deal and end world times, I personally get the feeling it will not be as people expect. But the above is how you can tell these "wolves" in any form/level.

big thing is the army. antichristis going 2 round up an army, then use it for bad. the army will be flipping huge!


then real Jesus will come down, say words of god, and kill him and the army with the words of God. Thats y i wont join armies haha!

The anti-Christ would come with great promises and some even are fulfilled (cures etc) after he has gained trust, the real evil in him is revealed.

Jesus comes later, after this has been revealed. No mistake there.

reply to post by Shoomoo


UH, when Jesus returns, he will return on/in the clouds...his kingom will certainly completely change life on Earth, but he won't physically be seen as a man again. So anyone claiming to be him is an anti christ. But if that don't work with your beliefs, then yeah, Bad Media has the right idea, look at his works/fruits. If he acts like any politition I've seen in my generation, who says one thing does another= anti-christ !

Best part about this thought of yours is that when the Christ did come to Earth, the people whom he came to first, whose propheceis he was fulfilling, thier religous leaders didn't recognize him as their messiah.
Irony.

It's all going to come down to anointing. Both Christ and Messiah translate to "the anointed." The antichrist will either be against this anointing that Jesus has and GIVES to others or will attempt to make you believe Jesus wasn't anointed and isn't capable of giving it to you today. This is why so few will find the truth and so many will be deceived. Therefore it's up to the individual to seek out Jesus and see if he really is all that he claims.

It will never be enough for me or someone else to tell you "Yes, Jesus is real. He has the power to raise himself inside you, proving to You once and for all there is something to this blood covenant and then teach and counsel you in the way."

But when you know Jesus in this way it - it will not be possible for you to be snatched out of God's hand - because you will know God too, you will know the truth, you'll know his voice and you will not trust another.

He taught through the anointing he received and we learn to discern from the anointing we receive.

There will be people in the end times who will have the power to say "No" to the antichrist.

Those who have ran out patience might mistake the AntiChrist for the real Christ! just my 2c

Originally posted by ahnggk
Those who have ran out patience might mistake the AntiChrist for the real Christ! just my 2c

Good point ahnggk, some just might be just plain tired of the anticipation, it is like paying and waiting to see Cher....and you are told she is sick and you get Hannah Montanna. Yeeaaachhhh.

but I am quite patient ...as I quote Dr. Phil:

"This ain't my first rodeo, son."

lol, I can wait for the real thing and I can smell the wrong thing from miles away.

[edit on 25-5-2009 by suzque66]

Originally posted by Shoomoo
I just decided to add this idea up on ATS too, so just role with me on this one...

If people say that Jesus would come, but then an antichrist comes, then how the heck can they tell if someone is real or not??

People wont trust anyone but themselves, so if there was a false prophet or an Anti-Christ per-se. The Christians would probably throw off the real christ, and not the Anti-Christ if this happens.

Can this show that Christians can be untrustworthy to their own savior, and that all people can be paranoid by their own idea of fear?

Hi Shoomoo/

The Antichrist will speak of earthly, worldly matters and all that concerns the body and not the soul.
When Jesus Christ came, He spoke of spiritual matters, life concerning one's soul and giving with kindness and Loving one's neighbour(all people)etc...
Above all else is to 'Love'.....Here lies all the Commandments.

Jesus Christ Wont be coming down to earth a Second time round....He has already done this...

"For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west; so also will the coming of the Son of Man be."
Prior to this, the "*sign of the Son of Man will appear in Heaven," and having seen it, "all the peoples of the world will mourn" (Mt. 24:30).
* (According to the Fathers of the Church, this will be the sign of the saving Cross of our Lord).

The Lord will descend in all His glory surrounded by innumerable angels: "Then they will see the Son of Man, coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory, and all His angels with Him … Then He will sit on the throne of His glory…" (Mt. 24:30, 25:31, Mk. 13:26)

This will be a final battle between Good and Evil.

helen