Has space and matter always been?, page 2

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reply posted on 27-4-2009 @ 02:14 AM by LiquidLight

What is infinity? If the universe came from a singularity of infinite density, then shouldn't the universe be expanding forever because there is an infinite amount of matter? And if God exists, doesn't this mean that God is part of infinity? And if God is part of infinity, doesn't this mean that we all are part of God?

Ten beers tonight and counting.

reply posted on 27-4-2009 @ 02:17 AM by jkrog08

I am anxious to hear how "pressure" can propagate inside a vacuum(with no pressure).I am not being sarcastic,just asking your opinion.

And to the poster on "pre-bang" physics,you are correct equations are useless at that point,that is where pure conceptual logic and,like you said,philosophy/metaphysics comes in.

About "what caused existence(OP,I bet you didnt expect this,lol.really there is no answer!).........how about a "Static Field Reality collapsing on itself due to the weight of infinite size?Now talk about mind bending?!

reply posted on 27-4-2009 @ 02:30 AM by spellbound

reply to post by LeoVirgo

You know what has always bothered me? Nothing can come from nothing, right? That is why I believe in a Creator - I like to think that the Creator is God, but obviously I could be wrong.

But there has to have been a creator of some sort.

reply posted on 27-4-2009 @ 02:36 AM by LiquidLight

reply to post by spellbound

I believe something has always been. Whether it's a creator or simply just matter, I don't know.

reply posted on 27-4-2009 @ 02:53 AM by jkrog08

reply to post by spellbound

Don't ever let anything,science or otherwise influence your decision on God.Most mainstream theories require a God.It is now trying to describe God in science terms.I personally know there is a God,I have been many times in situations where I should have died,but didn't.Everyone has a purpose,mine is not yet fulfilled.

reply posted on 27-4-2009 @ 04:59 AM by spy66

Originally posted by jkrog08
I am anxious to hear how "pressure" can propagate inside a vacuum(with no pressure).I am not being sarcastic,just asking your opinion.

And to the poster on "pre-bang" physics,you are correct equations are useless at that point,that is where pure conceptual logic and,like you said,philosophy/metaphysics comes in.

About "what caused existence(OP,I bet you didnt expect this,lol.really there is no answer!).........how about a "Static Field Reality collapsing on itself due to the weight of infinite size?Now talk about mind bending?!

Well a perfect vacuum is a state without time,energy, matter and pressure.

Energy or matter can't form in a space of perfect vacuum. Because there is nothing there.

The question is does a perfect vacuum exist. And is it the foundation for space it self. If so!! Energy and matter must have been created by a external source of some kind ?

reply posted on 27-4-2009 @ 05:49 AM by MR BOB

Originally posted by Wehali
Matter doesn't exist, has never existed and will never exist. Things such as
"the smallest particle" does not exist either. Everything is energy, vibrancy
and frequency.. basically, everything is made out of sound.

Assuming that string theory is correct.......

reply posted on 27-4-2009 @ 08:26 AM by Astyanax

reply to post by harrytuttle

So you're saying that, where science declines to tread for want of evidence as a guide to the truth, philosophy, whose 'truths' are derived from thought alone, can light the way forward?

I beg leave to doubt this.

reply posted on 27-4-2009 @ 11:18 AM by LeoVirgo

reply to post by spellbound

This is a curiosity of mine also. Here is my issue----

Just because there is a Prime divine force that is all....does that mean it is a 'creator'.

The word creator can be misleading for me anyways...because it begs the idea that something can come from nothing...without order...without cause and effect...and I have extreme issues with that. Just because there is a 'God' force, divine energy that is infinite ect....does not mean that God 'thinks' things into creation from nothing...I see God as more of a force that follows a natural order, like the water, winds, fire, ect....not so much a 'decider' but yet a 'filler' of al things (not saying this is what u think...but what I hear from the majority of religious folk).

It is truly a twisted road...but fun to think on...

I know many want to hold on to this supernatural intervener (ha-i dont think that is a word)...but I have issues with that.

I think there has always been something that emanated into something else. Cant prove it, but I dont think this something was 'only' the force of God...more like God being this force that follows a order...would always be in a cycle of somesort involving space, matter and movement.

IF I make no sense, pls be kind, Im just a student/housewife/caretaker/dreamer

reply posted on 27-4-2009 @ 11:21 AM by LeoVirgo

reply to post by spy66

Could there be a 'perfect vacuum'....I was thinking more along the lines that there could not. But I really know nothing, just assuming....

LV

reply posted on 27-4-2009 @ 11:27 AM by LeoVirgo

Originally posted by Wehali
Matter doesn't exist, has never existed and will never exist. Things such as
"the smallest particle" does not exist either. Everything is energy, vibrancy
and frequency.. basically, everything is made out of sound.

Do you think sound has always existed....therefore vibrancy and frequency always 'being'.

I use the word existed because there is really nothing else to describe it as.

reply posted on 27-4-2009 @ 11:31 AM by LiquidLight

Originally posted by jkrog08
reply to post by spellbound

Don't ever let anything,science or otherwise influence your decision on God.Most mainstream theories require a God.It is now trying to describe God in science terms.I personally know there is a God,I have been many times in situations where I should have died,but didn't.Everyone has a purpose,mine is not yet fulfilled.

As have I, but is this proof of divine intervention? I don't know. There is at least one other theory that can explain it: en.wikipedia.org...

reply posted on 27-4-2009 @ 05:43 PM by Melyanna Tengwesta

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
Sound silly to right? Everyone wants a beginning.....

But what if there is not....what if there is always space and always dark matter and always matter. What if everything is infinite? Is this possible? If not...explain why its not. Just because we can see a point of origin where our Universe seems to of expanded from....does that really mean there wasnt space and matter before this explosion of new matter? Could there of not been a collapse of a former matter...and then it all just emanates itself back out again?

Not sure if Im making sense here....but I see no reason for a instantaneous beginning from NOTHING.....my idea of thinking is there was always something.

See I believe everything emanates from something....nothing is created form nothing. I think everything has to have something to emanate from. This just seems logical. I believe in God....but I dont need to believe that God acts in magical ways that dont have a order. I think space and elements have ALWAYS been....so help me out here if there is proof that space hasnt always been here.

LV

Deep thought!!

Suppose that our regular 5 senses deceive us, that ALL we perceive is somehow Maya, Illusion. Then the conclusion would be: there is Nothing and never was .....

Suppose the Universe is EVER changing, EVER moving. Matter and Non-matter, even Space itselves is one continuously movement of frequency / vibartion: matter fades, explodes, ages, or is new born.

Suppose in the Greatness of the Universe (or several Universes / Dimensions) we live (appear in matter) not even for a split second. Would everyting be in vain then?

I believe there's a lot of matter and NON-matter humans are not able to see yet. Planet Earth will outlive us all and before our Sun dies our kin has to leave from here.

Is our Universe expanding? Realy? What if the Universe expands and implodes, just like the ocean waves on a beach?

reply posted on 27-4-2009 @ 06:50 PM by mithrawept

This is about probability. Lets look at three possible answers:

1. Creation by God
2. Creation by a giant intergalactic lobster called Colin
3. Science hasn't advanced sufficiently to answer the question

Numbers 1 and 2 have equal probability, as neither have any evidence. Number three is more probable because we have precedents, for example, In the same way that the sun was thought to revolve around the earth and to suggest otherwise was heresy.

Physics will answer this question, no theology.

(Edit for spelling)

[edit on 4/27/2009 by mithrawept]

reply posted on 27-4-2009 @ 10:31 PM by LiquidLight

reply to post by mithrawept

I doubt physics is the answer. As you move backwards in time closer to the big bang, physics begins to break down. It's something that we will never understand, because, by its very nature, its not understandable.

reply posted on 27-4-2009 @ 10:49 PM by synyster.

reply to post by Wehali

Not necessarily sound, but a frequency yes.

A frequency isn't always sound, but can be express through light waves and various other types of waves.

We live in a virtual reality in a sense. Everything that we see is how our brain perceives it.

reply posted on 27-4-2009 @ 11:06 PM by Trauma

Why are we here?
Because we're here.
Roll the bones.
lol.

reply posted on 28-4-2009 @ 12:17 AM by shapeless

reply to post by LeoVirgo

The word creator can be misleading for me anyways...because it begs the idea that something can come from nothing...without order...without cause and effect...and I have extreme issues with that. Just because there is a 'God' force, divine energy that is infinite ect....does not mean that God 'thinks' things into creation from nothing...I see God as more of a force that follows a natural order, like the water, winds, fire, ect....not so much a 'decider' but yet a 'filler' of al things (not saying this is what u think...but what I hear from the majority of religious folk). I think the "natural" order are programmed to do things, water, wind and fire shape things and change their compositions. Water makes things wet, penetrates things, freezes and breaks, floods, boils, steams mists, etc. It is a really good multiple purpose tool. The more forms it can take, the more tasks it can perform. In space gravity is the tool of choice (that i know about) sort of like the vacuum cleaner in the house of God. IMO the "big bang" was a "white hole", the ejecta from a black hole that has created an aneurysm in the space/time continuum. In more earthly terms, the vacuum cleaner bag burst.

reply posted on 28-4-2009 @ 12:59 AM by spy66

Originally posted by shapeless
reply to post by LeoVirgo

The word creator can be misleading for me anyways...because it begs the idea that something can come from nothing...without order...without cause and effect...and I have extreme issues with that. Just because there is a 'God' force, divine energy that is infinite ect....does not mean that God 'thinks' things into creation from nothing...I see God as more of a force that follows a natural order, like the water, winds, fire, ect....not so much a 'decider' but yet a 'filler' of al things (not saying this is what u think...but what I hear from the majority of religious folk). I think the "natural" order are programmed to do things, water, wind and fire shape things and change their compositions. Water makes things wet, penetrates things, freezes and breaks, floods, boils, steams mists, etc. It is a really good multiple purpose tool. The more forms it can take, the more tasks it can perform. In space gravity is the tool of choice (that i know about) sort of like the vacuum cleaner in the house of God. IMO the "big bang" was a "white hole", the ejecta from a black hole that has created an aneurysm in the space/time continuum. In more earthly terms, the vacuum cleaner bag burst.

Your are really talking about pressure in all your statements here. Where does this pressure come from?

If a energy waves or frequency is the source to everything. It would need pressure to slow down or in other words it needs to cool down to form matter.

But what is the source to this energy. If you dont like the idea of a God like source creating everything out of nothing. This energy people are talking about would need a source of some kind. Because it cant just appear out of nowhere without a source.

Energy is a finite in space time. Meaning energy will change in time.

reply posted on 28-4-2009 @ 01:06 AM by harrytuttle

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by harrytuttle

So you're saying that, where science declines to tread for want of evidence as a guide to the truth, philosophy, whose 'truths' are derived from thought alone, can light the way forward?

I beg leave to doubt this.

Observe beyond big bang, one can not. Ye have no choice but to philosophize. Logic requires not an observation, but a thought.

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