Has space and matter always been?

Sound silly to right? Everyone wants a beginning.....

But what if there is not....what if there is always space and always dark matter and always matter. What if everything is infinite? Is this possible? If not...explain why its not. Just because we can see a point of origin where our Universe seems to of expanded from....does that really mean there wasnt space and matter before this explosion of new matter? Could there of not been a collapse of a former matter...and then it all just emanates itself back out again?

Not sure if Im making sense here....but I see no reason for a instantaneous beginning from NOTHING.....my idea of thinking is there was always something.

See I believe everything emanates from something....nothing is created form nothing. I think everything has to have something to emanate from. This just seems logical. I believe in God....but I dont need to believe that God acts in magical ways that dont have a order. I think space and elements have ALWAYS been....so help me out here if there is proof that space hasnt always been here.

LV

Are you prescribed any medication by the way? You don't have to answer. I am putting together a theory about how we perceive the universe in relation to our current brain chemistry during the time of observance.
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[edit on 26-4-2009 by raj9721]

Matter doesn't exist, has never existed and will never exist. Things such as
"the smallest particle" does not exist either. Everything is energy, vibrancy
and frequency.. basically, everything is made out of sound.

Yep, this is the point we're breaking on, "Energy cannot be created nor destroyed". Is now undergoing it's own debation.

Not that your questioning it, but since string theory popped its little ugly head (Not that it's bad, it's just really opened pandoras box!) everything has gone under question. We're now thinking that simply there are an infinite amount of multiverses, thus, when any of two membranes collide it creates a "Big Bang" sounding off tons of frequences creating string like frequences, and creating matter, and well everything around you.

I know, it's perplexing, (I've also had a few beers). But it's an exciting topic for me personally.

You are a better christian then those I know of, You believe in God, but you don't stunt your thinking by saying God can do anything. Thus as a human race we must learn. Not expect the end everyday, and progress none.

Kudos to you man, hopefully more christians become as aware as you.

Originally posted by Wehali
Matter doesn't exist, has never existed and will never exist. Things such as
"the smallest particle" does not exist either. Everything is energy, vibrancy
and frequency.. basically, everything is made out of sound.

Ok, right...but this everything energy, vibrancy and frequency has always exsisted...hows that rewording?

reply to post by Republican08


Well I wouldnt call myself Christian...I dont believe in much of the OT and I dont except a sacrifice for sins or think we are waiting on a Savior. But...I believe in a divine force, and mabey even science relates more then what most mainstream believers want to think about....I mean, dont most Christians believe God creates out of nothing? I think the divine force is the energy and the motion or frequency...the quantum of science....lord knows Im babbling about stuff I dont understand. But its sooo interesting...and I have many questions. I think science and the God concept go hand in hand....

reply to post by Wehali


I disagree ith you that "everything is made of sound".Since sound does not exist in a vacuum.I do agree that reality is likely a harmonic oscillation of vibrations on all frequencies and dimensions.

OP:Mainstream physicist are past the "Big Bang",they are now into "pre-Big Bang" and the "Hyperspace"or "Bulk" realm.The real question is what created the likely 11 dimensions of reality.For more info you should read my "Parallel Universe" thread,it will help immensely.

In fact,truth be told,I think that "God" was created when the Hyperspace realm was created out of the void some eons ago.

reply to post by jkrog08


Thanks...I will read it...its hurts my brain to think about this stuff...but I think Im ready to try. I hope to read ideas that would include a divine force of some sort, consciousness mabey...and infinity...no beginning and no end.

Originally posted by Wehali
Matter doesn't exist, has never existed and will never exist. Things such as
"the smallest particle" does not exist either. Everything is energy, vibrancy
and frequency.. basically, everything is made out of sound.

I wouldn't call it sound; I'm not sure what I would call it, actually, but sound requires the vibration of matter (which is why there is no sound in space). Anyway, matter is a good enough name for it since that's how we perceive it. It's true nature is irrelevant, since we will never be able to perceive it's true nature.

Anyway, to the OP, I believe space has always existed and that it's infinite. What we call the universe is the matter that expanded from that singularity of infinite density fifteen billion years ago. Essentially, before the big bang there was nothing; no time, no matter, nothing but emptiness. If a person were to occupy this emptiness, they would constitute the entire universe.

Did I mention that I've had a few beers, as well?

It seems to me that there are several prerequisites to any creation 1) external points of reference 2) design 3) space to to put the creation in 4)material to build it with 5) workers to carry out the construction 6) forces to keep the created apart 7) maintenance to keep everything in working order 8) to know when the creation is complete

Originally posted by shapeless
It seems to me that there are several prerequisites to any creation 1) external points of reference 2) design 3) space to to put the creation in 4)material to build it with 5) workers to carry out the construction 6) forces to keep the created apart 7) maintenance to keep everything in working order 8) to know when the creation is complete

The design part I see as geometry, I see space as infinite and I am not so sure that elements havent always existed..

What kind of maintenance would there be...wouldnt order be a natural law? Everything follows an order...and how does creation become complete...?

Course I really KNOW nothing...but dwell on it now and then.

LV

You are right,it appears space does follow a natural law,as does everything in reality.Space continues to expand cause it can and because that is its nature.So there is no maintenance.

reply to post by LiquidLight


What is before this there was exactly this...and there are implosions and explosions. Like inhale and exhale...why does there have to be nothing before is what I dont get.

Mabey...?
LV

reply to post by jkrog08


I was reading some of your thoughts in other threads...I really enjoy your perspectives. I will read more of it tomorrow....166 reply's is alot, I might just skim through your posts on it.

Ill check back in later...time for bed and dreams about parallel universes! YA!

Thanks for the responses so far to all!
LV

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by LiquidLight

 

What is before this there was exactly this...and there are implosions and explosions. Like inhale and exhale...why does there have to be nothing before is what I dont get.

Mabey...?
LV

Well, let's say that you take a hollow tube and somehow manage to evacuate all matter and energy out of it, what do you have? nothing. That, I propose, is what life was before the big bang.

Lol,thanks,I know some are long,the first part is the main,but there is good responses in other pages too.

As far as "creation of reality" your guess is as good as mine at this point.Although hopefully soon there will be some answer,lol.It is interesting you said "implosion/explosion",I think that is what created reality itself,but that is just me....

Energy and pressure differential is what makes up all the different matter together.

The one thing that bothers me is that energy also need a source of some kind no matter what the energy is. If the energy is to exist.
Even energy can't pop up out of nowhere. If it can then God can be just as real as the energy coming from nowhere.

Energy can't become matter unless it is traveling slower than the speed of light. Well within our dimension that might be so.

To answer your question: Yes.

Modern physics usually stops commenting about what they know of the universe at the big bang. The reason is that, as they go back in time towards the big bang, their equations stop working at just after the big bang occurs. Things don't make sense, like in math when you try to divide 1 by zero, it's impossible to answer. It just doesn't compute, so for that reason they can't speak as physicists about anything at or before the big bang.

That's where logic (philosophy) steps in. For example, with Buddhist philosophy, there is something they call the law of causality. Every effect has a cause. And every cause is in itself an effect which was spawned by another cause. It never stops. Cause-effect, Cause-effect, Cause-effect, etc...

So even with out equations logic dictates that the big bang was caused by something before it. Exactly what that something is we have no idea. But what ever caused the big bang was also an effect spawned by an earlier cause. It goes back forever.

Essentially there is no beginning and there will be no end to everything. It all changes, but there is always something.

Actually, almost all religions agree with this notion, no matter how different they be. When western religious believers (Jewish, Christian, Muslim) are asked about where God came from, most say, "No body made God, he always was."

Even eastern religions, like Buddhism which believes in no one powerful "God", they just talk about the law of causality (cause and effect) going on forever.

No matter which way you slice it, everything is forever, but it's always changing.

reply to post by harrytuttle


Hammer meets nail! But I will add this, we, being finite creatures can't wrap our heads around the idea so thusly cling to such ideas as the big bang despite the fact it should be largely regarded as a failed theory.