To the skeptics... why don't you believe in the bilderburg/illuminati/whatever conspiracy?

I think it is easy for me to see that secret societies have been meeting. All that political elites have done was say that what they were doing is in the name of Democracy. But, I do not think that any of what happened in the past has changed. I believe that political elites are meeting still in secret and they are still doing satanic rituals in various places. I do not think that they are representative of us. Skeptics, while you may not believe in the bilderburg conspiracy to its intent, or, while you may doubt certain claims made about the group I have to ask you-- what makes you think that the elites aren't still meeting today? I think it's possible that they are meeting in secret still and that this Democratic revolution could be fake, while, in reality they are still meeting in secret to this very day. All the people who don't know are kept out of the loop, but, do you see what I'm saying?

Jury is still out for me on it. ( Keep in mind I am atheist )

I hear about these jewish groups who control all the wars and the world persay. And it goes back to around or before jesus' time.

And it raises a question for me, if someone was bent on controlling the world why would they plan for it so far into the future, 2,000+.

I mean if I wanted to rule the world, I would want to rule it, I wouldn't be worried about 2,000 years from now. (But albeit that may just be my way of thinking)

I mean, why the wait, they could do it now couldn't they.

If you could answer this for me, you would greatly enlighten me, and i've seen you around here and you seem a very savvy person to explain this to me.

[edit on 18-4-2009 by Republican08]

Alright, allow me to do that for you. First, I recommend for you to do your own research, read lots of books on the subject, and on other political subjects and they will confirm a lot of conspiracy theories. But, let me answer some of your issues of it that you seem to be concerned about.

Originally posted by Republican08
Jury is still out for me on it. ( Keep in mind I am atheist )

I'm an agnostic, but, that doesn't mean that people still aren't doing it. But I understand... it's not a religious thing it's about wanting to control the world.

I hear about these jewish groups who control all the wars and the world persay. And it goes back to around or before jesus' time.

And it raises a question for me, if someone was bent on controlling the world why would they plan for it so far into the future, 2,000+.

First of all, it's not a Jewish thing. This isn't some kind of zionist conspiracy. If anything it's an anti Jew conspiracy. A lot of political elites supported anti semitism so why would we assume they're pro-Jewish? World domination has been a continuous goal throughout history. It became apparent that in the feudal times that they were against freedom. So, a revolution occurred. But, then they figured that they have to crush the freedom movement and use the British empire as a means to crush the freedom revolutions and keep the old aristocracy in place. Other nations took noticed that they would be crushed in a revolution if they tried to revolt, so, the old people never left power, and all of these people wrote these ideologies about freedom, and, the governments just used it to justify their form of government. You see... we're not truly a representative Democracy. That's just a label.

, I would want to rule it, I wouldn't be worried about 2,000 years from now. (But albeit that may just be my way of thinking)

I mean, why the wait, they could do it now couldn't they.

If you could answer this for me, you would greatly enlighten me, and i've seen you around here and you seem a very savvy person to explain this to me.

[edit on 18-4-2009 by Republican08]

It's simple. They don't want to create too much social unrest. There have been a lot of events and obstacles keeping them from this goal. Ever notice how when we're in a time of crisis political elites always call for world government or a new world order? You see, this need to control people and this urge never left them.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
I think it is easy for me to see that secret societies have been meeting. All that political elites have done was say that what they were doing is in the name of Democracy. But, I do not think that any of what happened in the past has changed. I believe that political elites are meeting still in secret and they are still doing satanic rituals in various places. I do not think that they are representative of us. Skeptics, while you may not believe in the bilderburg conspiracy to its intent, or, while you may doubt certain claims made about the group I have to ask you-- what makes you think that the elites aren't still meeting today? I think it's possible that they are meeting in secret still and that this Democratic revolution could be fake, while, in reality they are still meeting in secret to this very day. All the people who don't know are kept out of the loop, but, do you see what I'm saying?

What does Satanic ritual have to do with anything? Elite meet. They decide the way they want the world to run, pull the strings necessary to set those plans in action. They can (and likely do) do all that without having to resort to arcane ritual or pedophilia or half the other things they get accused of doing. So why do you insist they have to be doing Satanic rituals?

reply to post by JoshNorton

posted on 18-4-2009 at 09:45 PM
What does Satanic ritual have to do with anything? Elite meet. They decide the way they want the world to run, pull the strings necessary to set those plans in action. They can (and likely do) do all that without having to resort to arcane ritual or pedophilia or half the other things they get accused of doing. So why do you insist they have to be doing Satanic rituals?

Okay, let me explain. Of course the politicians are satanic. They are true to the word. Rather than enacting honest diplomacy they feel that they should just go out and declare war against other nations because of groups like the council on the foreign relations. They enact policies which aren't in our interests and they brag about it each campaign season about how they screwed up our countries and other countries. Doesn't that sound satanic to you? They take pleasure in our pain. They're psychopaths.

I basically am a "believer" rather than a "non-believer." However, I do have doubts about certain aspects of conspiracy theories.

1) The more people who are involved, the harder it is to keep it a secret. Some conspiracy theories posit extremely elaborate secrets kept secret for hundreds or even thousands of years by tens of thousands of individuals. Seems unlikely.

2) People are basically self-interested, especially power-hungry people. A conspiracy by definition involves cooperation. It seems the opportunity and motive for back-stabbing would render many conspiracies ineffective.

3) Many conspiracy theories posit long-lasting plots with goals to be realized centuries or millennia into the future. The incentive for any given individual to work for a goal that will not be achieved within his lifetime is quite low.

4) Conspiracy theories often involve extremely complex and baroque explanations for phenomena that can be explained and/or achieved much more simply. Its like the question Dr. Evil's son asked in the Austin Powers movie: When killing a victim, why suspend him over a vat of boiling oil and slowly lower him into it with chains and gears when it would be simpler and more effective to just shoot him point-blank in the head? Many conspiracy theories involve overly complicated means to achieve what could otherwise be accomplished much more effectively by straightforward means.

That said, as I stated above, I am basically a "believer," despite all these doubts, for the simple reason that I think most of the information filtered down to us "little people" in the news is distorted. Orthodox explanations for lots of events just don't add up. There is "something else" at work on the higher levels for sure, and there are secrets being kept from us. The specific nature of these secrets remains unclear, however.

[edit on 4/18/09 by silent thunder]

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
Doesn't that sound satanic to you?

If they're not, you know, ACTUALLY worshipping Satan? Then no. It doesn't sound satanic. It sounds psychopathic or sociopathic. You said yourself, it has nothing to do with religion. You're weakening your own stance by including any mentions of Satan in your argument, particularly when you say it's not about religion.

They take pleasure in our pain. They're psychopaths.

And to be honest, I don't think they DO take pleasure in our pain. They take pleasure in THEIR PLEASURE and don't give a crap about US. It's not a will to inflict pain on the rest of the world, it's a belief that the rest of the world is insignificant bugs whose emotions are meaningless to them.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
If they're not, you know, ACTUALLY worshipping Satan? Then no. It doesn't sound satanic. It sounds psychopathic or sociopathic. You said yourself, it has nothing to do with religion. You're weakening your own stance by including any mentions of Satan in your argument, particularly when you say it's not about religion.

I just said that they were satanic, meaning, they do satanic rituals by doing mass sacrifices of billions of people. I never said that they worshipped Satan. They worship someone else. Haven't you ever heard of the Bohemian grove before? I think it's important to keep an open mind about their goal. Obviously they may not be satanic but they certainly are using ideological motivation to do mass sacrif.ices on the planet to bring about some change. And I didn't say it wasn't a religious thing, I just said, that it wasn't a Jewish thing. I didn't mean that they weren't using religion as a motivational factor

They take pleasure in our pain. They're psychopaths.

And to be honest, I don't think they DO take pleasure in our pain. They take pleasure in THEIR PLEASURE and don't give a crap about US. It's not a will to inflict pain on the rest of the world, it's a belief that the rest of the world is insignificant bugs whose emotions are meaningless to them.
I think they do take pleasure in our pain. They take pleasure in lying to the public by saying that they're trying to keep us safe, when, you know they're doing the exact opposite. Then they talk to the press about their progress about the destruction of various nations.

[edit on 18-4-2009 by Frankidealist35]

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Satanic? You stated in this thread that you're "agnostic". Which means:

Agnosticism (Greek: α- a-, without + γνώσις gnōsis, knowledge; after Gnosticism) is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims — particularly metaphysical claims regarding theology, afterlife or the existence of deities, ghosts, or even ultimate reality — is unknown or, depending on the form of agnosticism, inherently impossible to prove or disprove. It is often put forth as a middle ground between theism and atheism,[1] though it is not a religious declaration in itself.

en.wikipedia.org...

If you're agnostic how do you resolve the discrepancy between your "belief" and the fact that Satan is "otherworldly", thus something that you don't believe in?



[edit on 18-4-2009 by intrepid]

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by Frankidealist35

 

Satanic? You stated in this thread that you're "agnostic". Which means:

Agnosticism (Greek: α- a-, without + γνώσις gnōsis, knowledge; after Gnosticism) is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims — particularly metaphysical claims regarding theology, afterlife or the existence of deities, ghosts, or even ultimate reality — is unknown or, depending on the form of agnosticism, inherently impossible to prove or disprove. It is often put forth as a middle ground between theism and atheism,[1] though it is not a religious declaration in itself.

en.wikipedia.org...

If you're agnostic how do you resolve the discrepancy between your "belief" and the fact that Satan is "otherworldly", thus not something that you don't believe in?

That's a simple question. First of all, religion was created by man. Yes, there are certain elements of religion that is true... and a lot of things have been discredited by skeptics. But I'm more of a spiritual agnostic. I grew up learning about everything related to ghosts. I'm more convinced now that there is something out there. But, as I've said I believe that religion is a means to control the masses. Right now they are using Christianity and Islamic fascism to control the masses. The elites are using both religions as they both fit within their agenda. They are using the Christian forces of our country to fight against the Muslim world. Regardless of whether or not Osama Bin Laden is part of this conspiracy the political elites knew about the consequences of their past actions in the middle east, and, decided apparently for it to be more profitable to set up a scenario in which we would be at odd ends with them. They are trying to set up a fake rapture, and a fake messiah, and it's all happening before us right now. Read about Project Blue beam and you'll see where I'm coming from. I used to doubt project blue beam but now it's becoming more and more real.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Which doesn't answer the question that I posed. You're calling someone "Satanic" while you purport to be agnostic. The 2 are in conflict.

Whatever the secret powers are into, numerology is part of it. 9/11 is classic, mystical numerology. I think the day they gunned down JFK, 11/21 is some kind of mystic numerology as well. The London bombings, 7/7... there again, numerology.

Now, why would they be into that? Perhaps they think that doing these highly terrorizing acts on numerologically powerful dates brings them more power? I don't know, I'm just trying to use deductive reasoning.

I've also thought that they are into very slick marketing and branding techniques. 9/11 has been a "brand name" for that terrible event since it happened and I think this is no accident or coincidence. 7/7 in the UK is a "brand name" for that event, as well.

So, not only are they into some kind of mysticism regarding numerological calendar dates, but they seem to also use them as a marketing technique. I wonder how far back in world history we might see the use of "magic" dates?

In my mind, there is no doubt that very powerful, evil forces have been and are at work to try and control the world. I only hope there is an equivalent power of good opposing them.

The JFK hit was obviously staged, as were other political assassinations as were also 9/11 and 7/7. They do seem to want to demonize the Muslim faith these days, too.

I'm also on board with those who believe the "elite" want to depopulate the world. Unfortunately, what they have in mind would probably be quite devastating.

reply to post by intrepid


No, they are not in conflict. I said clearly that they use religion to control the masses. I believe that the political elite are using religion to control the masses. Agnosticism isn't atheism. I am a spiritualist, so, I believe the powers at be are manipulating spiritual forces. After all, why would NASA worship Egyptian Gods?

reply to post by switching yard


We are such a numerical based society , thats theirs not 2 numbers

you can put together that can't be linked to Something.

Numerolgy is pretty weak as a reason for anything

Im looking at my clock right now

Its 12:12

I guess that means we all gonna die now

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
Agnosticism isn't atheism. I am a spiritualist, so, I believe the powers at be are manipulating spiritual forces. After all, why would NASA worship Egyptian Gods?

Either you don't know what Agnosticism is or we're getting our chains yanked here. "...NASA worship Egyptian Gods?" As an Agnostic why would you care?

reply to post by intrepid


I do know what agnosticism is. Like you said, agnosticism is a term used to describe people who want to discern truth about religion. I can explain my agnostic beliefs if you want me to. Let me explain to you what agnosticism is. It's about constantly questioning if there is a God or if there isn't a God. I believe that these "Gods" are really alien beings who people mistook for a higher power. As for NASA worshipping these Egyptian Gods? Why wouldn't I care? I always worry dearly if someone is worshiping something more than what is healthy. Of course I care about how religion is used or what it does to people.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
I do know what agnosticism is. Like you said, agnosticism is a term used to describe people who want to discern truth about religion. I can explain my agnostic beliefs if you want me to. Let me explain to you what agnosticism is. It's about constantly questioning if there is a God or if there isn't a God.

Wrong. See my post above. As an Agnostic myself I know what it means.

I believe that these "Gods" are really alien beings who people mistook for a higher power.

OK, don't know where that came from but..... well, OK.

Of course I care about how religion is used or what it does to people.

Of course. That's been obvious for millennia. I still don't see the relevance to an Agnostic.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
I do know what agnosticism is. Like you said, agnosticism is a term used to describe people who want to discern truth about religion. I can explain my agnostic beliefs if you want me to. Let me explain to you what agnosticism is. It's about constantly questioning if there is a God or if there isn't a God.

Wrong. See my post above. As an Agnostic myself I know what it means.

There are different definitions of agnosticism. Your definition might be different from mine. I am using this one.
www.merriam-webster.com...

Since I constantly question my beliefs a lot of the time I consider myself an agnostic.

1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable ; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god2: a person unwilling to commit to an opinion about something

www.merriam-webster.com...

I believe that these "Gods" are really alien beings who people mistook for a higher power.

OK, don't know where that came from but..... well, OK.
Well, I don't believe they're Gods per say, but, they have the power of aliens do... so that's where I got that from.

Of course I care about how religion is used or what it does to people.

Of course. That's been obvious for millennia. I still don't see the relevance to an Agnostic.
That's the whole point. And secondly, I am an agnostic because my views always change. I am a spiritual agnostic. My beliefs in the spiritual world always change a lot. I wonder what things are. I constantly question things. I know what being agnostic is.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable ; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god2: a person unwilling to commit to an opinion about something

www.merriam-webster.com...

Exactly but you've labeled some "Satanic" here. Are God and Satan not opposite sides of the same coin? Ethereal and unknowable?

"a person unwilling to commit to an opinion about something." Well you sure did have an opinion about people that are Satan worshipers. Doesn't sound Agnostic to me.

I would assume someone's personal beliefs would be irrelevant if they were to label something Satanic. For example, you wouldn't have to be religious to recognize the Eucharist as 'Christian.'

Likewise, you could label something 'Satanic' without believing in God, angels, demons, or even Satan.

I personally do not believe the secret societies or government officials are engaging in Satanic rituals. However, I don't see how someone's personal beliefs come into play to label something Satanic.

You could be a die-hard atheist and still acknowledge a ritual is derived from a certain belief (even one where you do not believe in the fundamentals of said belief).

Just a side observation.