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Do you ever feel guilty for downloading free media off the internet?

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posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 02:14 PM
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In light of the recent PirateBay trial I thought I would bring this topic up.

There are different ways to rationalize free P2P downloading of music and movies, as there are ways to rationalize why it is important not to. Having been a touring artist/musician, I see both sides of the issue. I feel the MAJOR movie and record industries are historically corrupt, for reasons that I could begin a whole 'nother thread on.

Is it karmic and technological destiny that these major industries are suffering and shrinking because of P2P sharing? Or is it the greedy public sector who just wants a free lunch?

If the major music and movie industries eventually go completely under, will we be better off as a society?

I feel guilty. I'm addicted. I do support artists I really love (when they make a great record) by buying their albums. I still feel dirty though. Insight on this is welcome.




posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 02:19 PM
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You know, to be honest. I do feel i little guilty for doing it, though i have never done it before in my entire life... Its pretty #ed. But the artists still make money in other ways anyway so it doesnt matter to me.



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 02:20 PM
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Oh yah definitely, this one time... well.. ok maybe not that time.. but there was this other time wow I was ... mm k well ... didnt feel bad that time... but surely there has been a time...

In all seriousness, free music and big company software is free game imo, like office, wow I have never paid for office in my life and I have had it installed on at least one computer for over 10 years. The only companies I do not like to take software from is small companies, where you can obviously see they are livin large and just getting by. I have purchased a few programs that fit this description, ironically enough, they were the most appropriately priced unlike Gougerosoft.

But the people who have received the absolute most of my money, are the people who create freeware programs that work better than most paid versions out there, and just have a donation link on their site. I have sent probably 400+ in donations over all my internet years.



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 02:21 PM
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Take a look at Japanese anime they let their episodes go to fansub groups who in turn spread them out to the world. all they ask is once Licencing is made in your country to please stop sharing those... the model worked damn good for Bleach And Naruto! quickly becoming pop culture icons



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 02:25 PM
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Albums are usually bought for collectors value. I personally dont mind having a bunch of #ty unlabled ten for 3 dollar cd's laying around.

I still like to buy albums, but if i want to hear the song there and now, i just go to you tube...



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 02:25 PM
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Sorry, I don't feel an ounce of guilt. I don't download that much, but what I do download, I wasn't going to buy anyway. And if I download it and really like it, I will go buy the album.



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 02:32 PM
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I generally will buy something after I've downloaded it if I think it deserves to be bought.
For example I play PC games and since you can't rent them, I basically consider downloading one off of a torrent like a free "try-out". If the game is crap and not worth buying (like all too many these days) I would like to know that BEFORE I've bought and installed it (voiding the return). If I see a movie that I really liked online, I will go buy the DVD because I already know that I will be satisfied with what I've bought.
The "pay-to-play" system that modern media has tried to enforce has created the frustrated masses who are sick of buying media before testing it only to find that it was a waste of money.

Here in Canada our internet is under heavy attack and our monopolized internet companies are battling torrents anyway they can (even restricting all encrypted transfers to less than dial up speed). Every now and then I'll wake up and find that my internet has been "turned off" by Cogeco because I was downloading torrents.



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 02:44 PM
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I don't feel the slightest guilt to be honest, but then I only really download tv shows I've missed, not saying I have never downloaded a Movie, but the way I see it, if they were as honourable as they make out they are, this problem wouldn't exist on the scale it does.

People have been screaming at the industry for a long time, to reduce their prices ETC, but they have shown time and time again, public opinion doesn't count when it comes to their bank account balances, and many many bands have been taken for everything they had or earned, because they get signed to contracts they don't get good advice on, the excitement of being signed, usually overpowers their curiosity until it's too late.

Many Artists now rely on touring to make their way, the amount that comes from recordings doesn't cover what the companies advanced them to produce their work, then they go on tour just to pay them back, which can take a long time.

All they have done IMO by bringing these prosecutions, is to give the finger to everyone who asked for cheaper goods, this is going to make things worse for them in the long run, it isnt going to stop anything, just drive it more underground, people will always find a way to do this, eventually nobody will be able to buy anything, so they will be forced to bring the price down, after all what the people at TPB have been doing is protesting in the way they know how, their press release, stated after the verdict, the fight will go on, this was just a battle, not the end of the War.

Maybe if they stopped giving some of these people (actors) Millions for doing hardly anything, then they could make things a lot cheaper, I still go to the Movies, I still buy cd's, but no way will I pay extortionate prices for them, after all being paid millions to be famous, whats that about? what ever happened to an honest days pay for an honest days work?

Same goes for sports stars, but no I don't feel guilty for downloading, maybe I will when I see movie stars and sports stars struggling to pay to heat their homes, and feed their kids.



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 03:02 PM
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I make my own music and will eventually sometime soon be selling it online for the first time. This will be the first time i am on the opposing end of that arguement, but there are ways to make it work.

I have dl'd a ton of music over the past 10-11 years or so. 95% of it I delete after a while for lack of room on my hardrive or get sick of it.

When an artist I really like puts out a great album I always go buy it.

With this single driven music world we live in, record lables focus on singles and so the rest of the albums tend to not be that great because a lot of poeple making music are forced to make music they don't really enjoy.


I plan on giving away FREE a decent amount of my music just to get my name out there.

I make electronic/hiphop/experimental type music and multi-genre stuff so it's hard to just market towards a specific group.

These record companies feel it's ok to cheat you the buyer and smaller record selling companies out of money and quality but as soon as it happens to them they throw a fit worse than a toddler.


They don't want to adjust and adapt because that costs money, which they would rather earn than spend.

I have heard hundreds of great artists from all over the world put out GREAT music, but it's not music that might sell as pop, and some 7,8,9,10 year olds might not get it.


Artists who are 20,30,40 years old are being told to make music for little kids.

It's like asking led zepplin to write the new songs for the Barney's playalong, or sesame street.

That is insulting to an artist.

Kids are hard to please. Instead of giving in to them, we should actually teach them about what good music is.

I have found that the more kids learn about music, the more wide of a genre they will be open to.

It's mainly about them controlling their current system of making money. They don't want to gamble on another one. They are sore losers.

But some people take advantage of the free thing too much and some artists suffer because of it.

1.) Artists need to learn how to market what they want to be known as much better.

2.) Artists need to become more of their own producer, songwriter, marketer, manager and simple just doing more themselves.

With the tech out now, you don't need a record label.

I went to school in Minneapolis to become a music producer and audio engineer.

I only went 1 of 2 years because I learned a lot there and as much as I needed to know starting out. Realized I'd rather be the artist than produce some random artists #ty album or songs that I don't even like.

I learned a lot about the industry because well, all my teachers/instructors were and are currently working in the business.

I learned a shat load about entertainment business marketing and how things work and there is so much the average person does not know.

Not saying I know everything as I have forgot a decent amount, but I always have the books as reference.

Too many dumb artists are exactly like the record labels and they refuse to adapt and adjust. The ones that do, usually have a long career.

Some that just do it their way also works out but they need to put out GREAT music on a consistent basis .



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by Trauma
 


(even restricting all encrypted transfers to less than dial up speed)

I am in Canada too.

I agree, my parents have a 800kbs transfer rate, but Shaw cuts it down to about 120kbs for torrents. If it was hosted on other pay hosts like rapidshare, Shaw doesn't cut down the speed.

I have a 30 kbs connection(with shaw), and the speed is not reduced in a torrent, because hey it's only 30kbs.

There are torrent programs that claim to be able to bypass throttling but I haven't tried it yet (bitlord) until i finish downloading what I have then reinstalling my computer fresh and almost like new.



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 03:15 PM
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O and most of the time people download songs that they probably would not buy.

Lets say I release an electronic album. Some people wouldn't even buy it because they don't know who I am or might just not like electronic music.

But what if I made 5-10 of those songs available for free.

Then some people who would not have given me the time of day might ( just because it is free ) download and listen to my songs.

Then what if some of those people like 1 or 2 of my songs.

Boom ! ( madden voice ) new fans. And new potential customers.

Give away some of your good music to get people hooked and wanting more from you, then sell an album for a not so expensive price ....$10-15 is reasonable.

People are more willing to buy an album from an artist who's songs they have heard and liked and might have for free on a cd somewhere for repetative use, than some random guy putting out a cd.

The music industry right now is amazing in that anybody can succeed.

You do NOT need a record lable.

I can put out my own music, without any restricting by a label. Make it my way, take as much time as I need on songs, collab with whoever I want to, mix as many genre's into one cd or even song as I want and sell it for a price I choose, on a site I own and create and control and release it whenever I want.

And How often I want.


That much control has never been in the artist's hands before and the record labels know this.

Plus, I can make more profit selling 1-2 thousand cd's that I made myself, then I would selling 500,000 at a record label.

Not to mention, if your on a record label and your cd flops, and you make another cd and it does alright....The profit from that good cd, they will take and use it to cover losses from the first bad cd.

From what I learned. When you are on a major record label, you need to sell about 800,000 cd's to even make a profit.

Guess how many people did that in 2007..............I think it was like 13 artists or groups did.

That means that about 95% were not making a profit.

But doing it by yourself, you can sell way less cd's but keep a larger % of the profit from sales .

Not too mention you can market yourself however you want.

Once I get my music up and going, I'm def going the t-shirt route.....

But going to make them all like limited addition so it feels more special that you have 1 0f 20 shirts like this ever made or something like that. Not sure exactly yet.

Also, I have come to realize that right now, there is a ton of music from Europe that more people should be listening to.

Ever get sick of the same old? Listen to some UK, French, swedish, german, polish, spanish .....Australian ( I know not in EU ) stuff.......It is refreshing to hear mixed genre non- cookie cutter music.



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 03:26 PM
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You all do realize that by posting your "guilty feelings" or lack there of, you are GIVING AN ADMISSION OF GUILT..! The things that you post on the internet can be used against you in a lawsuit. I would highly discorage anyone from admitting they are "guilty" of illegal downloading.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by LeaderOfProgress]



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 03:26 PM
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This is a case of the free market getting it wrong. Charging 15 dollars for some piece of crap thrown together by talentless hacks? Another mindless blockbuster out of Hollywood? Spare us. So many of these out there it's impossible to justify paying that much for something that in all likelihood is going to be an utter waste of money. I just look at my friend's physical collections and laugh, all that money spent and only 1 in 5 worth watching or listening to more than once.

If I were to do it, I'd feel absolutely no guilt whatsoever. Good artist will make money of merchandising and touring.



[edit on 17-4-2009 by CapsFan8]



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by azzllin
I don't feel the slightest guilt to be honest, but then I only really download tv shows I've missed, not saying I have never downloaded a Movie, but the way I see it, if they were as honourable as they make out they are, this problem wouldn't exist on the scale it does.

People have been screaming at the industry for a long time, to reduce their prices ETC, but they have shown time and time again, public opinion doesn't count when it comes to their bank account balances, and many many bands have been taken for everything they had or earned, because they get signed to contracts they don't get good advice on, the excitement of being signed, usually overpowers their curiosity until it's too late.

Many Artists now rely on touring to make their way, the amount that comes from recordings doesn't cover what the companies advanced them to produce their work, then they go on tour just to pay them back, which can take a long time.

All they have done IMO by bringing these prosecutions, is to give the finger to everyone who asked for cheaper goods, this is going to make things worse for them in the long run, it isnt going to stop anything, just drive it more underground, people will always find a way to do this, eventually nobody will be able to buy anything, so they will be forced to bring the price down, after all what the people at TPB have been doing is protesting in the way they know how, their press release, stated after the verdict, the fight will go on, this was just a battle, not the end of the War.

Maybe if they stopped giving some of these people (actors) Millions for doing hardly anything, then they could make things a lot cheaper, I still go to the Movies, I still buy cd's, but no way will I pay extortionate prices for them, after all being paid millions to be famous, whats that about? what ever happened to an honest days pay for an honest days work?

Same goes for sports stars, but no I don't feel guilty for downloading, maybe I will when I see movie stars and sports stars struggling to pay to heat their homes, and feed their kids.



About movies. That is the biggest guilty free thing I do. How often to we hear a movie made 100million opening weekend, how are we supposed to feel bad at all that we didn't want to spend 60$ taking our family to see it? And the movies that don't do well, are CRAP movies, quit making bad movies and people will pay off with 100 million dollar opening weekends. My two Cents.



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 03:35 PM
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No hollywood probably take so much of there ideas from what we post, and the pentagon steal from peoples lifes, fact.

So hollywood steals from people, and people steal from hollywood. What is the difference between recording of the tv and downloading something of the net.

There is none, why do they sell dvd recorders to record of tv for?



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by LeaderOfProgress
You all do realize that by posting your "guilty feelings" or lack there of, you are GIVING AN ADMISSION OF GUILT..! The things that you post on the internet can be used against you in a lawsuit. I would highly discorage anyone from admitting they are "guilty" of illegal downloading.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by LeaderOfProgress]


In my original post, I used the word 'free' next to 'downloading'. Not 'illegal'. I'm smart enough not to use that word here. There are plenty of 'free' downloads on the internet. You follow me?



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 03:57 PM
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I tend to think that in our society and world we have reversed the natural order of progression. Normally, in a reasonable world, you would think that as technology is introduced that makes work easier, the price of the products would go down to reflect the reduced work involved. However, in our society, products never drop in price, they just seem to continually go up. Cable gets more expensive every year, even though it costs them no more to provide it. High speed internet keeps bumping up in price despite the fact that they can only lay so much wiring and cable. Insurance costs keep going up, milk costs are skyrocketing, and MOVIE costs, when i was living in arizona it cost like 17 per person to see a freakin movie!

Now i understand inflation also makes prices rise, however, our prices have far outstripped the inflation rate, while at the same time our salaries have lagged far behind the inflation rate.

In all of human history until this last 60 years or so, if one person made a song up, anyone could sing it, no copywrights or anything like that, and the performers made money by doing good performances for people. They may not have been the wealthiest players in society the way they are now, but they earned a reasonable days pay for a reasonable days work. Nowadays our performers should ALSO earn money based off of how they draw crowds to concerts. Everything else is superfluous. Do i care if they stop making millions of dollars for thinking up and singing lyrics? Not particularly, most of its commercialized garbage nowadays anyhow. Do i think people will stop thinking up songs if it only nets them a living, instead of a kingdom? Not remotely.



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 04:08 PM
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I don't feel guilty for downloading Hollywood movies... most involved are capitolist money lovers, yeah there's a few artists in there but.... hhmmm oh well.

I like certain sports dvds and I feel bad for stealing these.

As for music.... 100% clear conscience. As a musician myself I feel it is a good way to get musicians off their backsides and maybe do some real work... like gigs/concerts five nights a week. They've got lazy man and piracy will bring the live music back to the people.



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by NightVision
 


I do music and art myself and I believe in making a certain amount of stuff available for free. Not even out of kindness but as an efficient method of market penetration. If the whole world was singing a song I wrote, I know I would get a free dinner out of it somewhere.
The Grateful Dead were correct in encouraging bootlegging.
Fans should be able to create content out of their involvement with the artistes' oeuvre, license it back to the band, sell it through the band's pipeline and get points on the profits.
But I've never downloaded anything P2P. I do buy CDs, even if they cost sixty bucks. If I like somebody's work, I don't want them to be broke. I don't listen to anybody I wouldn't want to support, people I don't like I won't contribute to their business model. (There are some CDs that I will listen to, to study, if I find them by the side of the road, as long as I know the evil artist isn't getting paid off of my involvement.)
Plus, it's more obvious when you consider it on the local level. I don't like to get in on the guest list to see my friends' bands (not unless I really hate the club owner so much that through unwillingness to pay him I would not go to see the gig otherwise) because I want my friends to have money. I don't want to get my friends' band's CDs for free, I pay for them and then I want them to pay me for my products. Reciprocal gifting is sweet but the nice thing about paying cash is then you don't have to remember who owes who a favor...it seems like it's easy to remember what you do for others and easier to forget what they do for you, and before you know it cashless and groovy has created bad feelings in place of love...know what I mean?
But I don't feel guilty about downloading a video from Youtube, and then later I see it's withdrawn by the copyright holder. By playing a video of Band-so-and-so's content for my own enjoyment, I am upholding them in the world, giving them attention-clicks on their account in meme-space, I am doing them a favor even if they are too benighted (old-model scarcity economy) to know it. Because the worst thing is not not-getting-paid...the worst thing is being forgotten. IT IS EASIER TO COME BACK FROM POVERTY THAN OBLIVION...there you go...
Maybe this is a distinction without a difference, but to me a video from Youtube et al seems like it could be okay with the copyright holder at the moment when I gank it (so my intention toward the artiste(s) at the moment when I commit the act feels less guilty than a P2P), and more importantly I'm not going to repost it and pass it on to anybody else. The artiste(s) are not less likely to get paid due to me having something of theirs, but more likely to sell to me later, really, I do think, and I am not redistributing it for free and thus preventing other cheaper persons from becoming paying customers.
So...AM I AN INCONSISTENT HYPOCRITE ON THIS OR NOT? There is some philosophy involved in answering that question, uh-huh...
And then, would P2P be strictly ethical if all the files I offered in return were ones that I had created myself (or ones of which I was the copyright holder), could I presume that much, or is an explicit intention not to get paid required on both sides...or if we both give freely, but I only have ten songs and you being more prolific have twenty for me, do I kinda owe ya...et cetera yup-yup...



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 05:19 PM
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It really is hard to feel bad when I know that every time I download music its hurting the record company's bottom line more than anything else. Most artists make their real money from concerts, endorsement campaigns, merchandise, etc. As for movies somebody already hit the nail on the head; when a movie is said to clear some 50 or 100 million in a single weekend I really can't get all torn up over cheating them out of their 10$ or so for a ticket to a horrible theater full of whining babies, rude children, and adults who can't figure out how to set their cell phones to vibrate.

Unfortunately the rise in piracy is directly tied to the overall satisfaction of the customer; if we weren't being gouged at the movie theater and the record store we might not turn to P2P in order to obtain entertainment at a reasonable price. The movie going experience is horrible and CDs are over priced for a maximum of 2 to 4 stand-out tracks per album; until the respective companies can get their act together and improve things I don't have the first bit of guilt in me when I click download on a torrent.



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