Smuggled guns turn Juarez into a battlefield

Smuggled guns turn Juarez into a battlefield

www.msnbc.msn.com

NYT video: Thousands of Mexican federal troops and police are trying to stem the drug violence in Juarez. The border city has become the battlefield for warring cartels with smuggled American guns. Warning: contains graphic scenes.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Mods, this is the name of the news headline on msnbc front page.

That video made me almost speechless. I had no idea it was that bad in any part of Mexico.

It's surprising that 95% of guns come from the U.S.
And the mexican investigator even but some blame on the U.S. sayign as long as americans keep sending us these guns this wil be the result.

It's insightful to see what happens when you flood a geographic area with weapons, human beings become merciless. Just goes to show you this is the result of the hoods in NY, NJ, CA and ATL. But everyone tends to blame the symptoms of the problem and not the actual source of it.

Even so many here on ATS do the same.

www.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

This whole "smuggled American guns" media push stinks of government-driven propaganda.

If they are truly concerned about the issue, perhaps they should improve border security.

-slams my head into the wall- I was born in El Paso, which is the sister town of Cuidad Juarez. I can tell you now, It probably wasn't americans that the Mexicans got the guns from, but their cousins who happened to swim through the Rio Grande. Dammit people quit making Texas look bad.

[edit-spelling]

[edit on 15/4/2009 by SemperParatusRJCC]

This is nothing but anti-gun propoganda. They always use AK's as per news reports.

Do you think they'd buy AK's for $50 from central America or $1200 AR-15s from the US??

Think about it for a second, most stories talk about gunmen using AK-47s, WHICH ARE NOT MADE IN THE US AND FOUND EVERYWHERE OUTSIDE OF AMERICA.

True there are some imported AKs in the US, but they cost a WHOLE lot more then ones from Central America.

All this anti-gun stuff makes me sick and even if it were true, YOU STILL CAN'T TAKE AWAY AMERICAN'S GUNS EVEN IF MEXICANS ARE STEALING THEM AND KILLING EACH OTHER!!!!!

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
It's surprising that 95% of guns come from the U.S.
And the mexican investigator even but some blame on the U.S. sayign as long as americans keep sending us these guns this wil be the result.

It's especially surprising when you recognize that it IS NOT TRUE. This is a prime example of the mainstream media grabbing an issue and twisting it to fit their pro-leftist, anti-firearm agenda.

In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced -- and of those, 90 percent -- 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover -- were found to have come from the U.S.

But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.

In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.

Source: www.foxnews.com...

Furthermore, many of the American made firearms that do get traced were part of legal and federally approved shipments from US manufacturers to the Mexican government for millitary use. Kind of difficult to peg the blame on US gun laws when the Mexican millitary is largely corrupt and using the weapons they were provided as a legitimate government entity for criminal activities, don't you agree?

There isn't a flow of illegal arms from this side of the border to the South and there never has been. If you wish to lay blame on the US for the violence in Mexico, start and finish the debate with America's consumption of illegal narcotics, not exaggerated weapon deal claims.

Once again folks. ONE, FULLY AUTOMATIC AK-47 COSTS AT THE VERY LEAST 40,000 US DOLLARS here. If you can find an unregistered AK-47 in this country, that some one would be willing to sell, I would be greatly surprised. AK's from South America, shipped in by Venesula or CHINA costs about 2000 US a crate that has 24 AK's in it. This is BAT GUANO from the obama administration! Directly from the FBI stats, less than 17% of all weapons confiscated by Mexico and sent to be verified are from the US and almost all of them are shotguns or stolen weapons.

Zindo



[edit on 4/15/2009 by ZindoDoone]

Eric Holder: ban the guns. Obama: ban the guns. Feinstein: ban the guns.

Yeah they totally don't want to ban the guns... if you want to stop violence in Mexico, LEGALISE DRUGS. But no... too much money to make with that in smuggling, corruption and prisons.

The government is just a big mafia.

Switzerland have more guns than the US and they don't have gun violence. In Mexico, the people don't have guns and the gun violence is very very high. The problem is not the tool, it's the people and the laws.

Put guns in Mexico people hands and a portion of them might fight the scum drug dealers. Legalise drugs and the cartels lose most of their income.

[edit on 15-4-2009 by Vitchilo]

While 90 percent of the guns traced to the U.S. actually originated in the United States, the percent traced to the U.S. is only about 17 percent of the total number of guns reaching Mexico.
www.foxnews.com...
www.freerepublic.com...
www.jpfo.org...

There's just one problem with the 90 percent "statistic" and it's a big one:

It's just not true.

In fact, it's not even close. The fact is, only 17 percent of guns found at Mexican crime scenes have been traced to the U.S.

This is just anti gun propaganda.

The PTB know this is not true and ignore the true facts.

Next when they try to take guns from the people this will be one of the reason most Americans will not turn in there guns to a outright lying government.

You can see how there propaganda has progressed the number started at 70% of the guns about 3 months ago and they are now saying 95%.

i don't agree with everyone's posts

this isn't anti-gun propoganda

the U.S. would never say america is the one in bad standing in any cross-country current events.

The arms are coming up with the Drugs I assume through Central America.

The Drug trade appear to be in the central parts of Mexico and along the borders, when I was in Cancun, you hardly saw any police, but when I was in the more centrally located Villadoid, many more police.

anti-gun legislation theorists seem to follow a similar path
not all, becauce even I am one actually

but on one hand they say they say that anti-guns law will make lawful citizens more in danger, because that will still allow unregistered guns

on the second hand they say this is anti-gun propoganda because unregistered guns are going to mexico???????????????????

those two stances contradict each other friends

btw, I do believe people should be allowed to defend themselves.

All I can say is Hahahahaha... whom ever wrote this never set foot in Juarez... Okay no you cant buy any military caliber weapons legally in Mexico... their government issue... but anything else is up for grabs... Heck we used to go down because hunting rifles were like 60% cheaper there by that I mean rifles that were made in Europe not US...

Anyway that's over the counter if you get to know a dealer down there heck as long as you got cash they'll get you anything you want (To bad I couldn't afford that pretty little mini Uzi)... I'm sure they smuggle some from our side of the border, but... they don't need us for their guns

House Of Straw

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
those two stances contradict each other friends

That's because it's a straw man argument, and it's not unusual for them to be self-contradictory.

One's opinions about personal firearm ownership need not have anything to do with exposing propaganda based on falsehoods and appeals to emotion.

Connecting them serves only to muddle the issues and obscure the truth -- which is precisely what the purveyors of stories like these set out to do. It's the same thing they've been doing for decades -- centuries, in fact.

Truth has nothing to do with any of it and indeed, self-contradiction is one of their favorite tools, because it works.

I try not to encourage them.




[edit on 4/15/2009 by Majic]

Most of the weapons are not coming from the US.

This figure which has been repeated so often that it is now a sacred cow, came from an Obama campaign speech BUT IT IS WRONG

Link to article

So, it is about 17% of the guns used in the Mexican violence can be linked to the US.

That's still a very high number but the US is not the villain her, the villains are the drug gangs.

There are no $50 AK-47s avaliable, otherwise I would import them. I can see Juarez right now. No smoke, no gunfire. Move along, nothing to see here. It is very hard to buy a gun legally in Mexico. Stolen hunter's guns go for cheap. It is amazing how mush misinformation is being spewed out. Most mexicans do not have guns. If they want one it will come from the US.

Why smuggle guns from America when they can buy them from their own military and other countries?

This is just a blame game on America to further push an anti-gun policy here. The reality is they can have them shipped cheaper and easier from any number of places while getting full military hardware.



[edit on 15-4-2009 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by earthman4
There are no $50 AK-47s avaliable, otherwise I would import them. I can see Juarez right now. No smoke, no gunfire. Move along, nothing to see here. It is very hard to buy a gun legally in Mexico. Stolen hunter's guns go for cheap. It is amazing how mush misinformation is being spewed out. Most mexicans do not have guns. If they want one it will come from the US.

There is almost an unlimited number of $250 dollar AK-47s in the world or cheaper. Hell we can buy the over priced through many middle men semi-auto ones in the US for about 500 bucks, so a large order of these from any number of places would ship them full auto with tones of ammo, much cheaper and easier than smuggling guns from the US. Now handguns are a different story though I can buy them in an almost unlimited number under 100 bucks from other countries too, I'm sure many cheap handguns in Mexico came from here, but black market guns normally are more expensive than the normal market ones because they are not tracked/traced etc.

It's like South America just doesnt exist or smuggling can only happen downhill (North to South) or something with these people?

IANSA (International Action Network on Small Arms) reports 1.6 million guns in Central America, of which only 500,000 are legally registered. Most of those are found in Guatemala, El Salvador and Nicaragua as remains of the armed conflicts.

It wasn’t until El Salvador, though, that I saw the Central American gun culture in all its magnificence — level 4. A sunny afternoon, a lady was frying corn pancakes, next to her a man was yawning on a chair, stroking an Uzi on his lap. A youth was smoking a cigarette outside an internet café, casually swinging a shotgun from side to side. Walking in a park enjoying nature, you share space with a tactical squadron of six or seven men on bicycles, shotguns strapped to their backs, handguns strapped to their thighs. One of the strip clubs had six large, fat and bald Salvadorians with shotguns. Even the uniforms partly disappeared — a white shirt or T-shirt indicated a good guy, like in a spaghetti western.

The best:

One time I trekked a volcano. The guide shop gave me a shotgun escort because the path wasn’t too safe.

Because regions plagued by back to back dictatorships, guerrilla groups, perpetual micro wars, production and trafficking of drugs couldnt possibly be flooded by guns. Nooooo.... they all came from Bob's Sporting Goods down the street there.

I thought when this garbage spilled from Holders mouth this was the most ridiculous claim I have ever heard. Now that I discover people are actually buying into it Oh, what am I saying, I know people are intensely stupid and gullible. I just have these moments of hope every now and then. Sure, the hope is crushed typically within 5 minutes or so but as a great songwriter once said "Don't stop believin'."

People are turning Juarez int o a battlefield, not the guns. Really don't matter where the guns come from or if it was legal or not. Bad guys or criminal elements will always have access to weapons while the average law abiding citizen gets tangled up in red tape.

It is all a game to further tighten the noose around gun owners and their right.