Clinically Dead Feel Pain?

Some of this is old .. some of it is new.

I'm an 'organ donor'. But from what I'm reading, I'm wondering about pain after 'death'. There are plenty of articles that say once you are 'brain dead' then you feel no pain. But there are also many articles that make me wonder if you feel pain during organ harvesting. I'm finding info that goes both ways. I'm also finding info about doctors taking organs when they feel you are 'dead enough'. DEAD ENOUGH?

Here are some articles that say you may indeed feel pain when 'dead'.
It's rather shocking. I'm also signed up for cremation.
Now I'm wondering how long the brain and body will feel pain after death.

From what I found it is NOT policy to give the 'brain dead' person any anaethetics during the harvesting of their organs.

I've read that up to 12 minutes after full death the brain still has electronic functions going on. But in these articles there are statements that many 'brain dead' people react to painful stimulus. So I'm wondering about all of it now. Anyone want to comment or direct me to information?

Probably the only way to know for sure is to ask the ghost of a person who was brain dead and had their organs removed. But I don't think that'll happen in the near future.

ABC News - Could the Clinically Dead Feel Pain?

The concerns come from the fact that if a patient is not sedated during procedures to remove heart, lung, liver and pancreas, there is often an alarming and dramatic response from the body.

Anaesthetists have observed that patients' pulse and blood pressure shoot up when the first cut is made. Theatre staff are often distressed when clinically dead patients move and wriggle about, to the point where it is impossible to operate.

Guardian UK - Brain Death Debate Deters Organ Donations

An editorial in the journal of the Royal College of Anaesthetists called for anaesthetics to be given during any operations to remove the heart, lung, liver or pancreas of such patients, who would have been kept alive by a ventilator. It said that increased blood pressure and heart rate in the patient "could be considered to represent an organism in distress".

Brain Dead Coma Patients (PVS) Feel Pain - Oct 2008)

Melborne Doctor - Most Donors Still Alive When Organs are Removed

New England Journal of Medicine: 'Brain Death' is not Death

Doctors Who Almost Dissected Living Patient Confess Ignorance about Actual Moment of Death

Need for Uniform Criteria - Brain Death

Doctor Says about "Brain Dead" Man Saved from Organ Harvesting - "Brain Death is Never Really Death"

AU News - Doctor takes organs and says 'the donor is dead enough'

Denver Coroner Rules "Homicide" in Organ-Donor Case

Russian Surgeons Removing Organs Saying Patients Almost Dead Anyway

Hemodynamic Responses in Brain Dead Organ Donors

Canadian Journal of Anaethetics - Increasing calls for use of Anaethetics to harvest organs

Neuropathology and Brain Death 2009 - Very technical

Anaethetics for Brain Dead Organ Donors - requires sign up at the site.

Man Awakes From Pain During Autopsy

Baby Mispronounced Dead - dies 'again' after 5 hours in morgue


[edit on 4/2/2009 by FlyersFan]

I often wondered you know like people that jump of buildings or something do they feel pain. Do you die instantly as you hit the ground, i am just not sure.

Whatever dieing has to have some pain. Are you really sure anyway that yu want to be a donor, i would rather not be.

Originally posted by andy1033
Are you really sure anyway that yu want to be a donor, .

I'm just trying to do the right thing and help people. If I don't need the organs anymore, and they are healthy enough, why not let someone else have them?

As long as there are painkillers administered anyways.

Jeeeze .. these articles do make a person wonder.

You're dead enough when you can't scream and you can't sue them. Why does anyone trust doctors anymore anyway?! It's seriously the question of the century.

I wonder if its anything like this drug that exists in the Caribbean. It makes the person seem dead, but has actually slowed bodily functions to an undetectable rate. You come to in a matter of days.

Makes me wonder if people that are pronounced dead are often not dead. I've heard of coffins being opened up to find the insides torn up, like the person was trying to escape. maybe we should give people a chance, but then again if you're in need of an organ you need one from somebody who is dead, or soon to be dead, you can't use an old organ.I can see why doctors would be anxious to harvest organs from someone.

Pretty freaky......might merit some serious studies and research.

You could simply have a provision in a living will that instructs for anesthesia when you are determined dead and they will take your organs.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by andy1033
Are you really sure anyway that yu want to be a donor, .

I'm just trying to do the right thing and help people. If I don't need the organs anymore, and they are healthy enough, why not let someone else have them?

As long as there are painkillers administered anyways.

Jeeeze .. these articles do make a person wonder.

I've been dead. Well I am not sure what 'clinically' dead is. Let's just say I've been blue. My heart was stopped. I felt it stop. I had been hearing-but the hearing started to echo away and become-slow. I was floating in an upright position beneath the surface in fridged water. There was no oxygen in me. I stopped feeling the bullet hole and the rape-which I had thought was a stab;
but I could feel the fridged water around me. It was probably what kept me ok. Hadn't felt anything huge with the broken jaw.

I felt my shoulders tear from their sockets when I was hoisted out. I spent the moments from my shoulders being unset to my ressessitation OBE floating above watching the crowd that had gathered. I felt my sturnum break when I was resessitated. I am not certain by the time you are gotten to a hospital that you will feel anything. This was all within 5 or 10 minutes.

The brain slowly dies with the lack of oxygen. Since you are tied to your brain you will feel this process. That is where I would be concerned about 'removals'-if I were you. With or without your organs-you are still there a participant in your body by way of your brain which connects your physical perceptions to your spiritual soul.

But if you do it will be quickly over.

Who is to say someone will not notice you are willing to part with your organs and hurry the process along?

reply to post by HugmyRek


EEEEEEEK! Now you've really got me thinking. You were in the middle of an OBE and you felt what was going on in your earthly body? Oh boy ... I wonder how long the body being 'dead' that the astral body will feel the pain.

Perhaps until the last electrical impulse in the brain dies.

Man ....

reply to post by Jadette


I thought of that. Instructions in my living will. But it seems that some laws block that . Can you believe it? It's true. Some states do not allow pain killers to those who the doctors have already declared brain dead.

I want to leave my organs ... to help others ... but I'm wondering about it all now.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I used to be an organ donor, ever since my first drivers license, at age 16.
My thoughts were, if something ever happened to me, it would be nice to be able to supply somebody with a pair of eyes, or something else I might not be using in the event of my death.

That was, until I started working in hospitals, and was told what goes on during an organ harvesting by several nurses. They talked me out of being one after what they had to say. Even some of the older, more seasoned nurses said it was one of the grossest things they have ever witnessed. They told me what is left of a body after organ havesting doesn't even look like a human anymore. They don't just take your eyes, they take everything they think might be donatable, which even includes skin. They also told me how quickly the harvesting starts, which is immediately after somebody is declared dead, so I have often wondered about the pain factor also.

I had to get a new license just last month, and I eliminated being a donor.

Ever heard of a movie called "Coma?"

It's about people who are given drugs to give them the appearance of being brain dead, but they are hauled off to some facility where they are kept alive artificially for organ harvesting on the black market. This topic reminds me of that movie!

reply to post by FlyersFan

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by HugmyRek

 

EEEEEEEK! Now you've really got me thinking. You were in the middle of an OBE and you felt what was going on in your earthly body? Oh boy ... I wonder how long the body being 'dead' that the astral body will feel the pain.

Perhaps until the last electrical impulse in the brain dies.

Man ....

Sorry for the late response-I get lost on here quite easily.

No, not exactly. I didn't feel pain while in OBE. Pain took me to OBE and pain brought me back from OBE. I could watch from OBE however. It is the only reason I knew I was being raped, ironically. I thought the shooter had run up to hug me, I left when he broke my jaw and 'stabbed' me in the stomach, which I saw from above and at a distance was his hips actually indicating a movement which would indicate to me that it was something other than hugging. My family in hospital afterwards wouldn't confirm that I was 'stabbed'. They just got this forlorn look when I asked.

I felt pain or sensation by way of the cold water when the guy drug me to the adjacent canal and my lungs filled with water. The sensation was of hearing my heart stop. It was rather booming in my ears. The only way I can describe it.

A bunch of surgeries and graftings later to make me 'forget'-I still have the stent/stint (?) scars which weren't considered important enough to graft over.

I also OBE'd due to pain when an onlooker pulled me by one arm and then the other to get me out of the water-It broke or dislocated one of my shoulders-both actually, but one was less severe or the doctors didn't note it for casting.

It was all very in and out of body.

The states don't offer an 'opt out' in regards to organ donation. Just an opt in. I've heard that even if you don't check your box to opt in, someone will do it for you upon your death. Which really upsets me. I don't want to sign on to the big organ-fest this way. It just seems we are for parts.

My experience plays a moderate role in my choice to not hand out parts. I don't want to live on in another-if the case. And I don't want to further be traumatized by feeling the removal of organs-even if I am essentially dead or if it is a 'quick' thing.

I too am listed as an organ donor on my DL. I don't think I would mind pain knowing that someone could perhaps live longer and pain free with one of my organs.

When you stop breathing it's not just your brain starts to die - so does all the other organs in your body.

If they’re going to harvest viable organs - they’re going to have to do it as soon as possible after you’ve been declared dead.

If your worries are you’ll feel the pain - don’t donate.

Considering the expedience in which they’ll strip you bare - I find it highly likely you’ll be aware, of what I don’t know, but that you’ll be aware, IMO you will be.

peace

Originally posted by whaaa
I too am listed as an organ donor on my DL. I don't think I would mind pain knowing that someone could perhaps live longer and pain free with one of my organs.

I don't mean to go against anyone else's feelings on the matter (pardon the pun). But as this poster said, "I don't think I would mind pain knowing that someone could perhaps live longer and pain free with one of my organs.". The pain that some people live through on a day to day basis is certainly less than my (perhaps) 15 minutes before I am well and truly checked out.

I'd like to think that I will have abused my organs to such a point by the time I pass away that the doctor's won't even bother to harvest me.

I honestly can't recall whether I signed up to be an organ donor or not, although it's only been maybe five or so years since I first got my drivers license.

I don't like to concern myself about death and whatever comes after - if indeed anything at all. I suppose I'll cross that bridge when the time comes.

In the past I've considered the possibility of becoming an organ donor. After reading this I think I have made up my mind to not even consider it again. Doctors don't care about you when you're alive, why would they care once you're dead and (as another person mentioned) can't sue them?

This reminds me of a news story I read a while back:
www.foxnews.com...

This woman actually died... and rigor mortis set in! Then she sprung back to life. Imagine waking up just as they were harvesting your organs. This is an incredible story. It makes me want to request a natural burial. No embalming fluid, nothing.

Even if you aren't a donor, they will still drain your blood, and 'prep' you for preservation...