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Man detained and harassed at airport for carrying CASH!

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posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by Maxmars
We shouldn't blame the poor suckers at TSA, they were told that people who use words like 'rights' and 'liberty' and 'constitution' are likely homegrown terrorists.


Let's face it, the TSA takes a lot of crap. Some of it they may deserve, but a lot they really don't.

Recently during my continuing search for more gainful employment I saw an ad for TSA positions at my local international airport. These guys get paid somewhere just above minimum wage to start (the ad is gone, but I believe it was around $8.00/hr for our airport). With crappy wages and probably lousy benefits, you're not exactly going to attract the "best and brightest" people for the job. Just like with anything else, you get what you pay for.

Plus there's the fact that the TSA really hasn't had much in the way of solid leadership enforcing codified policies. There's too much in the way of "special situations", too much "if this then that but if not then something else" (I mean, come on, 6-month-old babies on the "No-Fly List"?!?) and nowhere near enough supervision by people who really, really know what they're doing--and again, as low-paid as these folks are, there's not much incentive for them to really even pretend to give a damn.

This combination of lack of knowledge, low motivation to do things "right", nobody really knowing what's "right" to begin with, poor compensation, a considerable level of enforcement power with little real oversight, and the fact these folks screen literally thousands of people every single day-many of whom are pushy, rude and horribly demanding-leads directly to this kind of situation.

Not saying they aren't wrong. I'm just saying that the way this whole thing is set up right now, one can't really expect anything resembling serious efficiency and consistently appropriate response.




posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by The Nighthawk
 


And of course, you are correct. I mean to generalize when I rant like that, because I know that in the end, it's not the people that are at fault, it's the plan.

I can't imagine too many TSA employees standing up for what's right when they are essentially indoctrinated into believing "You should be grateful to be employed" which seems to be the standard motivational tool used my mid and upper-level management drones. (And even they are subject to such treatment.)

But really, harassing a guy over cash? For what purpose? In what policy is it declared a 'security' threat? TSA is supposed to be about ensuring safety in travel.... how does cash threaten that?



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by xoxo stacie
It has been a law for some time now that you are NOT allowed to carry cash on airplanes anymore.
My Future sister in law went to Hawaii to see her daughter who is getting a wedding ready for this May. She was told on the phone that it isn't okay to carry cash; to bring a credit or debit card if she need to buy anything at the airport or on the plane etc. She could have someone Western Union her cash or do it herself and have it waiting when she got there.
It is common knowledge these days that it isn't okay. So I will have to agree that perhaps he set himself up for this one knowing it wasn't okay in the first place.


You're flat out wrong about this. "It's common knowledge"... really? Not to me, or anyone else that walks around with cash in their pocket. The common knowledge is that cash is easier to lose, be it by accident, or robbery, when you travel. This is why travel agents, air line agents, etc. tell you "cash is not recommended. Not because it's illegal. We haven't all bought the "simplify your life" visa debit commercials hook line and sinker. If you're carrying more than $10k, you must produce evidence as to it's origin. Whether you want to carry it on a plane or not is irrelevant. When it comes to things like this, better to spend 2 minutes to look up the information yourself, then rely on some story your future sister in law, or brothers girlfriends second cousins ex-roommate told you.

Back to the incident, whether the guy was setting up the situation or not is irrelevant. He wouldn't have anything to gripe about had the TSA agents done their job, instead of acting out their own little episode of "The Shield".



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by Maxmars
reply to post by The Nighthawk
 


And of course, you are correct. I mean to generalize when I rant like that, because I know that in the end, it's not the people that are at fault, it's the plan.


Oh I know. Not bustin' your chops, man, just sayin'



I can't imagine too many TSA employees standing up for what's right when they are essentially indoctrinated into believing "You should be grateful to be employed" which seems to be the standard motivational tool used my mid and upper-level management drones. (And even they are subject to such treatment.)


Sadly pretty much anyone who works for a living is in this situation now. There's a whole lot of resentment out there, lots of people being treated like slaves by their superiors... I know where I work, it's turning into a powderkeg of employee rage.

There's some 100 of us who are praying for the EFCA to pass so we can finally unionize and demand some freakin' respect for the fact that without us, our shareholders wouldn't make Jack.

We're getting sick and tired of massive cutbacks in hours, no benefits, no chance for raises or even evaluations to see how we're doing as employees. We're all stuck in part-time Hell, limited to 37 hours a week so we don't approach overtime.

Last year while working on a special team, I was allowed to get overtime, but because the person who usually did payroll was on vacation it was denied and I lost five hours' time-and-a-half. I tried making a stink, reminding them it's the law in this state, and that they don't get the luxury of making that decision--if I worked it, they have no right to withhold it. The answer was to go through some complicated claims process through HR that would have been weeks of filling out forms and waiting for answers, and I decided (to my regret now) to drop it just so I could maintain some level of rapport with my superiors.

They treat us worse than dogs, blame us for management's poor decisions, and make us pay for their horrendous business sense (like making deals with clients that essentially cut off almost 50% of our operating revenue--I never went to business school but even I understand how painfully stupid that is).

When clients don't get the numbers they expect the call center rank-and-file takes the blame for not being thorough enough in our dealings with callers, when the real fault lies with the clients themselves for setting goals that are literally impossible with the tools and criteria we have to work with, and with management for not showing some backbone in negotiating with said clients to give us more leeway.

The call center's personnel manager is an arrogant, manipulative prick who deliberately pushes as many buttons as he can to agitate people, then uses their anger as an excuse to reassert his own overblown authority.

One of my co-workers took her own life a few weeks ago. The combination of cancer and a consistently hostile work environment was just too much for her to handle anymore.

And it's like this all over. I work in a recruiting firm, so I get to hear some dandy workplace horror stories.


But really, harassing a guy over cash? For what purpose? In what policy is it declared a 'security' threat? TSA is supposed to be about ensuring safety in travel.... how does cash threaten that?


I'm guessing they thought it was drug money. Remember, law enforcement is automatically notified every time someone deposits $2500 or more in the bank. When that happens everyone from the IRS to the DEA to the FBI to Interpol knows about it. It's supposed to be a way to try and track money-laundering efforts, etc. I suspect there was an assumption his cash was somehow related to illegal activity.

Is that kind of attitude right? I honestly don't know. In theory I can understand the rationale, but I also find myself lamenting the fact that one can no longer really be "anonymous" anymore, especially in a nation that supposedly has a Constitutionally-guaranteed right to privacy, and asserting one's rights seems to automatically elicit an authoritarian, "guilty-until-proven-innocent" response. There may be solutions to this problem, but they require such a huge paradigm shift in our concepts of crime and law enforcement that I doubt the change will happen within my lifetime (I'm 34).

As for the Ron Paul stuff, I think a lot of people really overblow the whole "Ron Paul is suppressed because he's a threat" thing. He's a legitimately-elected public official. His fellow Republicans don't like him, not because he's a "threat", but because he doesn't march in lock-step--and the Republicans aren't exactly known for being a "Big Tent" party. No, that stuff, I think, has little to do with this situation.



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by The Nighthawk
...Remember, law enforcement is automatically notified every time someone deposits $2500 or more in the bank. When that happens everyone from the IRS to the DEA to the FBI to Interpol knows about it.


Just need to point out an inaccuracy in an otherwise great post.

The above quoted statement is simply false. The requirements, are for banks to report any cash transaction over $10,000.00 to the government. This applies only to cash, not checks, and covers deposits, withdrawals and even transfers from account to account.

To be clear, the "red flag" amount is not $2,500.00, it's $10,000.00, and only applies to cash transactions. Deposit $10,000.01 in cash, and the feds will be notified. Deposit a $20,000.00 check, and nobody cares but your wife.

[edit on 4/2/2009 by Unit541]



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 03:29 PM
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That's totally crazy and those TSA dudes sounded like total fartknockers doing their lame impression of a police interrogation.
I wonder if they were just stalling while the FBI dude ran a background check on him or something...if not, then FBI guy musta whispered "what in the hell do you guys think you are doing with this man? let him go right now before he sues us all!" before they just let him go.
Can't imagine what grounds they would have to drag him off to the local PD for questioning aside from a comment one of the TSA guys made about the victim "looking suspicious to him" with emphasis.
If that's all it takes, then we are all screwed because these guys sounded like unprofessional, untrained idiots and only serve to make the institution look more foolish that it already does.
A real evildoer would easily slide past these individuals.

So then, if I plan on flying with a few grand in cash on me, I can expect to be arrested and questioned in the same manner? Why don't they put that on the list of banned items alongside fluid containers over 3oz?

...and so I take a deep breath and remind myself that what goes around comes around...if it doesn't, then so be it, but I refuse to let this kinda crap bring me down.



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 03:46 PM
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I listened up to the 2 minute mark and it is clear to me that this guy is trying to make an issue out of this. The TSA can be clearly heard asking about the money in context of "DEA" concerns.

I 'm glad TSA is questioning people with thousands of dollars.



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 04:15 PM
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just thought i would chip in here i work for a uk govt agency and regulary ask people if the have any amounts of cash over £1000 or equivilent but only if they are entering or leaving the UK, dont know what the US regs are on this but was the guy crossing state lines? In the uk this power comes from the proceeds of crime act.



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by venividivici
I listened up to the 2 minute mark and it is clear to me that this guy is trying to make an issue out of this. The TSA can be clearly heard asking about the money in context of "DEA" concerns.

I 'm glad TSA is questioning people with thousands of dollars.



TSA should ask questions in the context of "DEA concerns" when they find drugs. And so what if he was trying to make an issue out of it. Perhaps he woke up in the morning and decided he wanted to find out how far TSA agents were willing to overstep their authority to make others aware. He made an issue out of being detained for no reason. He broke no law, but was treated like a criminal.



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 05:58 PM
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Thank you for posting this was very disturbing and very educational.



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by venividivici

I 'm glad TSA is questioning people with thousands of dollars.



Why are you glad? Why are you gloating about the destruction of Freedom and Liberty in America?

Maybe you'd be happy if we were all just stripped naked and all our belongings be rifled through just to show who is in control. Isn’t that how we treat convicted criminals in penitentiaries – yep that’s a wonderful world to strive for.

I've carried thousands of dollars when I boarded aircraft on many occasions and it's nobody’s god damn right to know where it came from nor what I plan to do with it unless I've actually broken the law. Carrying cash within the U.S. in any amount is not illegal – yet. Transactions of 10k or higher must be reported as well as transporting that amount in or out of the country – it doesn’t mean it’s illegal.

Cash is simply a tool and unlike credit cards, & debit cards it allows one to travel and make purchases freely and anonymously. Nobody who believes in freedom and liberty should have a problem with that..


[edit on 2-4-2009 by verylowfrequency]



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 07:23 PM
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I didn't know carrying cash is reasonable cause to detain someone on suspicion of a crime. Gotta love some of the comments from the tSSa apologists.



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by Unit541
The above quoted statement is simply false. The requirements, are for banks to report any cash transaction over $10,000.00 to the government. This applies only to cash, not checks, and covers deposits, withdrawals and even transfers from account to account.

To be clear, the "red flag" amount is not $2,500.00, it's $10,000.00, and only applies to cash transactions. Deposit $10,000.01 in cash, and the feds will be notified. Deposit a $20,000.00 check, and nobody cares but your wife.


I'm not sure. My paralegal studies prof (also a practicing attorney specializing in probate, so I'm guessing he knows his stuff) says it's $2,500. I'll ask him for more info on this Saturday before class. Maybe it's something the "general public" isn't really "supposed" to know.



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by SphinxMontreal
 


Next thing you know reasonable cause will be laughing and smiling too much as we all know you must be illegally or artificially stimulated - must be grounds for a body cavity search. After all how else can anyone be so happy about the way things are going?



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 07:39 PM
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reply to post by imd12c4funn
 


They make a great point in the film saying Cash is Freedom. The day we lose cash is truly the day we lose everything. With every single transaction you make being logged, without ever meeting you, an employee of the state could literally know every single thing about you.

What you buy, and where you spend your money is who you are. Bottom line.



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by Unit541

Originally posted by venividivici
I listened up to the 2 minute mark and it is clear to me that this guy is trying to make an issue out of this. The TSA can be clearly heard asking about the money in context of "DEA" concerns.

I 'm glad TSA is questioning people with thousands of dollars.



TSA should ask questions in the context of "DEA concerns" when they find drugs. And so what if he was trying to make an issue out of it. Perhaps he woke up in the morning and decided he wanted to find out how far TSA agents were willing to overstep their authority to make others aware. He made an issue out of being detained for no reason. He broke no law, but was treated like a criminal.


No, authorities can ask questions when they have reason to believe a crime has been committed. Carrying $4700 through an airport and then being beligerent about it answering simple questions is reasonable cuase for them to believe he is in the drug business.
He gets no sympathy from me. What did he expect? He's lucky he wasn't traveling in a 3rd world country. The $4700 would have been cbeen conveniently "lost" LOL .What a tool!



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by verylowfrequency

Originally posted by venividivici

I 'm glad TSA is questioning people with thousands of dollars.



Why are you glad? Why are you gloating about the destruction of Freedom and Liberty in America?



[edit on 2-4-2009 by verylowfrequency]


I made the comment in the context of DEA concern . I am glad authorities question people carrying thousands of dollars in cash through an airport.

Yes It is obvious the detainee was pushing TSA, DEA local police to get them to react. They did and now he goes to the media.

I have have travelled extensively and I know I'll be deep doodoo if I don't declare large sums of cash to TSA or any other authroity. It is common sense.

shame on the detainee for using hard working police officers and TSA officials who are under extreme pressure everyday trying to protect you and me !



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 08:49 PM
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Originally posted by venividivici

I made the comment in the context of DEA concern . I am glad authorities question people carrying thousands of dollars in cash through an airport.


It's okay to have concerns, but your concerns don't happen to be the law.

The TSA is not the DEA. The DEA has no authority at an airport - unless it's part of an ongoing investigation in which they would have a warrant - they don't have the authority to stop the public and ask them what they are carrying. The TSA can, they have been given authority to check peoples baggage to insure there is no weapons carried onboard that could compromise the safety of the aircraft, crew or passengers. That is the scope of their authority. If the TSA finds something illegal in that process they can't do anything except call the appropriate LEA to enforce the laws.

In this case there was nothing illegal, as less than 10k is perfectly legal. Thus TSA was fishing or trolling for information that was outside the bounds of its authority and it had no legal ground to stand on - hence why he was released.

Had you played more than 2 minutes of the video you might aware that when the FBI came in the room and spoke to the TSA - they immediately released the man. As you can be sure the FBI informed them that they were violating his civil rights by detaining him without the authority by law to do so as there was nothing he did that was illegal - therefore continuing to hold him was/is against the law.



Yes It is obvious the detainee was pushing TSA, DEA local police to get them to react. They did and now he goes to the media.


And those same agencies use their own ruses (aka. push them) in order to get people to break the law all the time both video and audio recorded in order to convict them of what they were perhaps led to do, but I guess when you turn the tables it's not fair - eh?



I have have travelled extensively and I know I'll be deep doodoo if I don't declare large sums of cash to TSA or any other authroity. It is common sense.


Cash only needs to be declared for international flights not domestic and then only when that cash exceeds ten thousand dollars. Again neither criterion had any relevance in this case.



shame on the detainee for using hard working police officers and TSA officials who are under extreme pressure everyday trying to protect you and me !


Shame on them for not abiding by our laws, pissing on our civil rights,. and the supreme law of the land our U.S. Constitution. It is because of evil men corrupted by power such as these that our constitution was written.

[edit on 2-4-2009 by verylowfrequency]



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 09:14 PM
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I think we should just divide the country down the middle right now.
Those who liked America before the gestapo came and those who are happy to bend over and take it sans lube from em.

Those of you condoning this man's interrogation should be ashamed of yourselves. Seems a few pencils need sharpening.

I, for one, am not down with authority figures who abuse their power.

As one of the other posters mention...it never should have gone as far as it did and the TSA should be glad to have the FBI watching over their shoulders to keep them from making asses out of themselves...too late in this case, I am afraid.

Sort of off-topic, I really think this is probably just a few bad apples and shouldn't presume this kinda thing will happen to everyone.
I am, however, glad to see when bad apples are exposed for what they are. What a disgrace...they weren't protecting anything...period. Prolly just bored to tears and looking for something...anything to break the monotony of their typically uneventful jobs. Sad.



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by imd12c4funn
 


Star & Flagged!

This is our future!

Goodbye Constitution!

Goodbye Freedom!

We must stand up against this kind of TYRANNY!!!







 
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