Life is NOT precious...

I put forward this idea as to whom to kill. I say don't kill those undesirables, I say kill those that propose killing said undesirables. Because it is those people that bring the suffering and pain in their twisted dreams of remaking the world into a better place. Read between the lines of your history books OP and those that agree with him, you will see millions dead to just the idea and reasoning you are proposing and upholding. You are the threat, not them. Any person who cannot understand the basic value of a human life or can only apply that value to themselves and those that they approve of have no value themselves and should be removed.

[edit on 2-4-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by OhZone


I was trying to draw the obvious comparison between cyclic opression and crime. To say that what I have described is the result of a neccessity created by derilects is to entirely miss the point. I realize that you do not think that this thread is about oppression, but desperate crimes are often the direct result of opression. I was fortunate enough to not attend a school like the one I described, and I suspect that you were too.

So the robber who kills the clerk behind the counter is just a desparate oppressed person.
The guy who knocks and old lady down or does the "mugging" just to steal her purse is also just a desparate oppressed person.
And both their lives are "presious?
You would just lock them up, give them free room and board, and free medical care for their whole lives?

How many of them would you all take as house guests?
Just for one week end?

None of you have answered this yet.
I have to wonder why.
If you cannot walk the talk maybe you should just keep quiet,
and let logical people run the world.
(too bad that has never happened)

Originally posted by OhZone
The guy who knocks and old lady down or does the "mugging" just to steal her purse is also just a desparate oppressed person.
And both their lives are "presious?
You would just lock them up, give them free room and board, and free medical care for their whole lives?

I certainly wouldn't murder someone for stealing, what kind of logic is that?

How about making people work in prison? Also, where I come from free healthcare is to be had by all - as it should be, not just the lucky ones.

I think that instead of thinking that murdering (evil) people would solve anything, people should consider education as the big answer to the whole "how to make the world a better place" question. And instead of stating that life is not precious, one should state that ignorance is not precious.

This guy lost me when he said criminals should be killed. I'll admit, I stopped reading after page 2.

I think the exact words were.. "THOSE people, should be gotten rid of. Or, without beating around the bush, killed."

Then he used provacatives for perogatives and laments for laymans.



C'mon, dude, if you want to change the world, at least you can learn to speak your own language properly. Skipping english class, are we?

Originally posted by OhZone
So the robber who kills the clerk behind the counter is just a desparate oppressed person.
The guy who knocks and old lady down or does the "mugging" just to steal her purse is also just a desparate oppressed person.
And both their lives are "presious?
You would just lock them up, give them free room and board, and free medical care for their whole lives?

How many of them would you all take as house guests?
Just for one week end?

None of you have answered this yet.

I have to wonder why.
If you cannot walk the talk maybe you should just keep quiet,

and let logical people run the world.
(too bad that has never happened)

That is why I have stopped posting any more long posts. Even though I answer everyones questions, the ones I put forth are evaded, and bits and pieces of all of the information I posted is picked apart for their own liking.

Originally posted by PH43DRUS
This guy lost me when he said criminals should be killed. I'll admit, I stopped reading after page 2.

I think the exact words were.. "THOSE people, should be gotten rid of. Or, without beating around the bush, killed."

Then he used provacatives for perogatives and laments for laymans.

C'mon, dude, if you want to change the world, at least you can learn to speak your own language properly. Skipping english class, are we?

Or, if you are clever enough to read the mistakes of my grammar, why not debate the actual content that was intended?

What you just said is a simple derailing of this thread. I should use your own logic for my argument..."His thread isn't perfect in spelling/grammar, so I should just dismiss it."

[edit on 4-4-2009 by FritosBBQTwist]

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


You're right, my argument has a logical fallacy and wouldn't hold up in debate class. Not sure of the latin terminology, but it is generally understood as attack the messenger.

That point aside, your final solution--kill the killers-- is very circular, because violence begets violence. It is like saying the war in Iraq is going to prevent terrorism, when, in fact, it will probably do more to foment hatred in the future generations of Iraqis at the expense of westerners, a majority of which played little or no role in the war itself.

A lot of people are born into an environment of utter destitusion, and they have no choice but to turn to black markets just so that they can procure the most basic and essential means to survive. Who are you to judge those people, and say that their lives are worthless to the point that they should be gotten rid of? Don't be so ignorant and naive. The world isn't as black and white as your education has trained you to believe.

reply to post by OhZone


Two words, Strawman Argument. It is recommended you look it up.

reply to post by PH43DRUS


Then whose right is it for those (initial murderers) to take others life's away?

I view the argument as an oxymoron from both sides.

I am for punishment, and you are for forgiveness, so it seems to me. You punish all, and some will turn bad. You forgive all, and some will remain bad. I am not that stupid to realize that, and I hope you are the same; that both has pros and cons.

As you stated...we all have values based upon on how we have grown up. So with that said, I respect your side (truly) and I at least hope you respect my opinion - disagreeing or not. It is no use arguing something that many of us (even I) have cemented in our heads. You still might think of me as the scum of humans, but I am only one of those folk who grew up in a poor environment - so forgive me.

And watcher of the shadows...straw argument? Easy for you to say.

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


Well Im glad that you grew up in a functional home with functional parents and with a functional middle upper class title. you say the lives of teachers, engineers, waitresses, lawyers, doctors are all considered to be good and helpfull to society..Well my young friend who is still in highschool let me tell you from experince that waitresses probably goes home and smokes marijana or is an unstable alcholic, that lawyer or doctor or engineer probably goes home and does coc aine for the simple fact that they have the money to do so... Do not always judge a book by its cover my friend. As far as abortions go it has absolutely NOTHING to do with not being educated or POOR!! Maybe a rich very educated lady got rapped by some psycho? ever think of that? LEt me tell you something kid, how can you say that the "un precious lives" creates more "un precious lives?" Say a child has a crack addict as a father whos spending time in prison and their mother not only works two jobs and prostitues on the side to get them the best presents for christmas birthdays ect doesnt grow up to be the next scientist who cures aids or goes on to be something much greater due to his experinces as a child? Life is presciouse my young friend...and I hope that you NEVER COME ACROSS hard times...for then you will ultimately be one of the "un precious lives" that you just described... I can also tell you are repulbican with your views, who you probably recieved from your "wealthy" father.. Seeming as you are still in highschool why dont you give yourself some more time to grow up to form such opinions.

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


Easy for me to justify as well. Here is the definition of what he did.

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

SOURCE:en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


If only the court of law was so simple!

He is guilty.

Definition of guilty: etc...

According to you, it seems no argument is better than a "straw mans" (even though it is not the case).

so basically, because you were born in a more privilaged situation than the people you want to murder were, you think you have the right to say these people do not deserve to live their life? think its time you took your head out of your a*** and started living in the real world. Not everyone in this world gets the same head start you have recieved, infact the majority of the people on this planet have the exact opposite.

Learn to think before you make words so degradeing, high school child.

My mom died 5 months ago at age 39. I've been in a drug infested life, crap for money, homeless, slept under bridges.

Life is precious, and you won't know it until someone you love is ripped from your face and shoved 6 feet under or stuck in a crematory device and burnt to ash.

Wake up, and make something worth my optical sensation.

Inferior post.

[edit on 9-4-2009 by Revolution-2012]

Goatheif, you don’t care that you mother or grandmother gets knocked down, get a broken arm or worse and the guy who does it can just go to jail for a year or two? That’s OK with you?
A person who does this sort of thing is a menace to society. Why exactly should they be kept alive? Any dog that goes around attacking an wounding people is quickly dispatched, why not vicious human dogs?

Yes, Mrmott/dreamer. Make the world better thru education? If only it worked that way. If you take a look around you might notice that this does not make any difference. Educated miscreants will steal your grandmother’s life savings and feel that they have a right to do so just because they can, which is the same logic used by uneducated criminals..

Watcher - straw man? I was giving examples of the type of criminal that should be summarily executed.
Since some of you think they are precious why don’t you want them for houseguests? Would you let your daughter date them?

Stargazer, basic behavior is inherited. The child of criminals is likely to become a criminal himself.
Your notion that he/she could be the next scientist to find a cure for AIDS etc is airy-fairy dreaming.
The info to find cures for anything is not in the head of the scientist; it is omnipresent for the seeker to find. Ever notice that sometimes there are several people in different areas, not in contact with each other; yet they both come up with the same idea in the same time frame?

While you are knocking Frito for being young and in high school; as I read your post, it seems that maybe you should go back to high school yourself. Your writing skills leave a lot to be desired. Making use of paragraphs would make you a lot easier to read.

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


NICE.
I agree to a degree.

1. MOST PEOPLE are not WORTH it. Meaning if they died it would be OK. because they do not contribute and in fact, they are NO DIFFERENT from a CHAIR or jellyfish. NO BRAINS. the just complain and play the blame game.

2. THERE IS NO WE!!!! there is only I. SO take care of yourself. Those that refuse to think, find shelter, and hunt....should NOT EXIST. they RELY on the state and therefore they are a burden.

3. WE NEED DEPOPULATION. simple

4. EVERYONE has potential to be productive and USE THEIR BRAINS. but they CHOOSE not to...coz its easier that way

I was at a bar and this conversation happened
she said to me "YOU DONT VOTE?
I said "No I DONT VOTE"
she said, "but if you dont vote you CANT COMPLAIN FOR THE NEXT 4 YEARS"
I said "EXACTLY, when something goes wrong I LOOK IN THE MIRROR"

this women VOTES so she can complain if something goes wrong. LIKE the masses. THEY LOOK FOR LEADERS like GODS. coz they are worthless.
hence
a lot of lives are worthless

reply to post by MrJelly


It must really be a bummer to go about life totally alone, ("there is no WE"). The nature of interdependance, (even if disregarding interconnectedness), is a powerful force. When presenting the argument of worthlessness in human life, perhaps it is being fogotten/overlooked that history has dictated a class system in which there are criminals, and psychology seems to have dictated that something like a "criminal mind" is a reality.

So I ask you, if those "people" are eliminated, will there not be a new bottom rung on the ladder? And at what point will it become nessecary to elimintate that group and then the next?

The problem with assigning "value" or "worth" to a human life is that it implies that there is someone, (or a group of people), capable of doing the assessing, (as you and the OP seem to think you are). This puts you in a class over and "above" everyone else, and that is most certianly an illusion.

Think about where you are an the ladder, and take yourselves down a few rungs to reality. If this thinking, (so toxic), is part of your identies, it could be time to reassess that.

Good luck.