Life is NOT precious...

You are intelligent, but you need some wisdom kid. Have you had any personal experience with redemption?

Being from an upper middle class family, do you think you know enough about what it is like in a lower class where most of these people come from? Even in upper middle class families...there is abuse, neglect, etc. A lot of things some people have to overcome that you will never have to experience.

You have no experience of how hard it can be. You don't know how desperate you can begin to feel. I think most people from lower class situations (even people who have had the will power to not commit crimes) would disagree with your view on things because they don't have as hard a time imagining what it would be like to be even worse off. It doesn't take as much for them to imagine feeling so hopeless to the point of breaking.

You have the typical view of most people that have grown up in your situation (though taken a bit further then most).

Under the right circumstances anyone is capable of becoming a 'leech'.

What about leeches that became that way because of mental disorder that was not treated? Survival of the fittest right...kill them off. What about mentally handicapped people. Kill them off while they are young cause they just drain society.

What is a leech to you? Can you tell us what they are typically like? How harsh of a crime do they need to commit? How do you view homeless people that choose to be homeless?

My brother was in prison for most of his life. He is just over 40 now and has been out of prison for approximately 2 years. He is making contributions to the rest of society now. All it took was the right medication to help him overcome his drug addiction so he could avoid doing stupid things trying to get money for drugs. He committed robberies, car theft, etc.

Are you saying my brother shouldn't have been given this chance? Should he have been killed? He made mistakes when things were rough. When he fell so far into a pit of despair with nobody to help him.

How would we as humans decide who is a leech and who could possibly turn their lives around? Who do you trust to make these decisions? Imagine how hard it would be to ensure you don't execute innocent people.

When we grow up we are forced to live a life in a society that we did not create. Society evolves on its own. Some people do not find their place in this society. And if you are from a poor family there is more stress in your life. Much more stress.

If you kill these people you are not helping anyone. You are just helping society evolve. But we are humans, we are not society. Society has no compassion as a whole. Individuals have compassion. Society is based around consumption, money, corporations, etc. Society doesn't care about you. And if one day you have a mental breakdown and do something you regret...just hope society doesn't consider you a 'leech'.

You have unfortunately grown up as part of society. That is why you care about its bottom line, rather then being compassionate to all. Try becoming more of an individual human.

Man, how can you raise so much topics in a single thread? no wonder you got 140 replies ( +1:duh

Anyway, i share your vision of life as not being important as we're told, some people are just there to be parasites and everything. I strongly agree with you that we should keep an eye on the birth rates everywhere in the world. It's going off the charts, and we live longer. So what happens when we're 12 billion, when Earth can supply a max of 3-4 billion?
We share fears , too.
Talking about news, Manson and all his frioends should have been executed for their crimes, I can't believe you americans are ginig tax money to feed this perverted jerk. All killers of his kind should be forced to dig graves, and get a bullet in the neck at their family's expense.
However, including abortion in your topic is probably a mistake, leading way to all sorts of off-topic posts. When abortion disappears, so does our fundamental right to choose whatever we do in life. And it's a man talking, ask a woman

[edit on 31-3-2009 by MattMulder]

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist

THOSE people, should be gotten rid of. Or, without beating around the bush, killed.

The Obama Youth Core is gonna love you, kid !

IMHO, You've got a bright future, congrats !

Originally posted by thebluemoon
If life is not precious and you are saying we should get rid of all the "# ups", then who will be working the jobs, you don't want to do, and not even that, what if one of this # ups, would have some kinda bad luck and falls on his head, discovers the cure for cancer, and 20 years later your grandma doesn't die from it because of the cure. Killing anyone, any person with consciousness, is a complete waste, as we never seen anything like it in this universe, a life is more value then anything else in this world, maybe you should stop focusing on others and focus on yourself, get yourself to the point where you are surrounded by the people you want to be around, don't bottleneck yourself with this "# ups", grow up a couple of years and notice that your not really better or worse then anyone else.

One more person who fails to read my posts.

Now, even with that said, the if statements are ludicrous. The "killers" make a cure for cancer? What if they kill someone who is actually smart that could cure cancer?

Hypothetical questions are sometimes okay, but the one you offered has no logic to it.

reply to post by Nickmare


I will not act like I have been in the situations that others have been in. "Bad times" yes, but nothing what some people have experienced.

The line would not be easy to draw, and for that case, it would be one far down the aisle way.

I will discuss my opinions regarding your brother, as it is a great example of what I am for and what I am not.

According to you, he has done his fair share of crimes. But, even what he has done would not go under my "punishment". Like another poster said, what he has done would have been paid off fully if he had to work while in jail. But, if he did not kill anyone or had a life sentence, I think he got what he deserved (if he had to work while in jail).

Lets talk about orphans and the mentally ill, now that I think I cleared that up for you?

As stated in one of my previous posts, I changed my thought on "unwanted" babies. I said they should be given time to grow, until they have real "free will". So, if down the road, 30s, 40s, etc, if they end up killing someone, they would immediately get the death sentence like anyone else. I will say that my thought on orphans have changed, and that they need to be given the chance to develop free will etc. They should be given the chance to either make their life shine or grow dark. But, that choice should still be there.

The mentally retarded is different. I do not think some are even given free will, at least compared to us. If they can still get a job through a charity, or if their parents want to pay for them, then that is fine by me for them to stay alive. But I am not for the government assistance idea.

And how do we decide who is a leech? Well, the biggest "leecher's" are the *corrupt* rich. So, the line would be drawn far away to be labeled as one. I do not think many people at all would fall into that category, but I am sure there are those out there that surely would. But my main gripe is with the sentencing for murderers.

Some questions you have not answered of mine that I just recently posed, along with many others

Maybe I respect life so much I would go to the extreme of preventing anything happening to it in the first place?

Another question. If you were being oppressed, and forced into being a slave, would you not want to rebel and kill those imprisoning you?

If I missed a question or did not answer you in the right context just say...I just wish you return the favor.

reply to post by visible_villain


Brilliant post!

I can also make links that show something truly corrupt and try to relate it with you...but I am almost sure you have not read all of my posts and you are you just making a mindless insult based upon what you have read.

But I am sure many will star you for your efforts. Because that is what this world is coming to... congratulating failure.

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist

Here's a kid who looks about your age. Doesn't look evil at all -

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4c12040a6f0c.jpg[/atsimg]
And I'm sure you're not evil either, but you are the product of a very sick culture.

For instance, I have lived in parts of the world where people have so much respect for life they don't even kill the mosquitoes which are feeding on them. They just brush them away ... "Remarkable," I remember thinking as I saw this time and time again.

Those people are a product of a culture nowhere near as sick as ours is.

Since, you are only sixteen years old, and I believe you are since that is what you've told us all ( and a rather literate one, I might add ), I am sure you have no idea what I am talking about here.

In 10 or 20 years ( a remarkably short span of time, by the way ) you may have begun to understand what I mean, assuming, of course, nobody's euthanized you by then for having been undesirable in some social sense.

I still think you should go into politics - you really do sound perfect for that profession.

Crikey, it's like a Hitler youth meeting in here.

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


You are one frightening person, truly frightening.

Another question. If you were being oppressed, and forced into being a slave, would you not want to rebel and kill those imprisoning you?

Yes, those who don't work might be seeing 'life' for what it is and denying the slavery of a 9-5, wife, two children and only meaningless bits of green paper to show for your life's achievements. Have a damn sticker.

Bang, you are dead evil oppressor (Fritos) - the rebels are coming for you.

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist

Kid, your posts stink to high heaven of infantile arrogance and ignorance. If one were to judge you purely by what you have written, you would be judged an obnoxious little fool.

You are right that life is not precious - except to he or she who lives it.

People who spread ideas like this are a menace to society. If - as you propose - life is not precious, then it is you who deserve to die first.

Only once before in four years on ATS have I read such poisonous crap. That was from some white supremacist who wanted to eradicate the other races because they 'didn't contribute' and just 'took up precious resources'.

A lot like you, come to think of it. Put a sock in it, junior.

Doesn’t diversity constitute the strength rather than the weakness of a species? In the real world, those who will not or who cannot operate in the prevailing environment, perish. But if humanity is in any way more evolved than the other life-forms here, aren’t we adept enough to turn such “liabilities” to our collective advantage? Cannot we assist those who can adapt to adapt. While learning more about ourselves, from the way we treat those who cannot adapt.

reply to post by agtc2

Doesn’t diversity constitute the strength rather than the weakness of a species?

it's good to hear you say this

But if humanity is in any way more evolved than the other life-forms here, aren’t we adept enough to turn such “liabilities” to our collective advantage? Cannot we assist those who can adapt to adapt. While learning more about ourselves, from the way we treat those who cannot adapt.

nice

also - the thing about the "liabilities"... (I like that)

the strengths and weaknesses of humanity - are judged differently by different people

but we're each weak and strong in different areas and all play a part in what we've become

some people seem to be pretty good at "contributing" (whatever that might mean to them) but, at being human - not so much

whether some people are capable of seeing the value in any of it at all - I wonder

some of the most beautiful and meaningful things mankind has ever produced came from our "liabilities"

the OP should consider - even ants are employed

there's much more involved in contributing to the ultimate worth of humanity than being able to show up on time and fill out a time sheet

there's more to it than never needing help

compassion comes to mind

seems like thinking should also be in there somehow

reply to post by Astyanax


thanks for not beating around the bush

it needed to be said

But you are assuming life cannot be made precious.

Just because it isn't now doesn't mean it can't be.

Why would you continue down a system which is obviously flawed. If you don;t agree that life is precious now, why can't you try to make it so by your contribution to the species?

OP, you're lucky I've never met you to my knowledge... That's all I have to say about that.

Anyway, I live in a lower middle class family in an area that doesn't even belong to a city, I am in high school, but I also work, I've seen the drugs, hell, I've even done them, but I'm out of that now. I've literally fought for my own life with my bare hands, I do more for my family than their dad(I'm the child of a different father than the rest) I have a job, and I'm a boxer, I help my family and friends as a mover, I'm also a backpacker, but I'm also a skinhead, not a racist skinhead, but I feel that our working class should be made up of legal citizens of this country.

You may be smart, but you need a near death experience, because then you'll never think that life isn't precious again. I know because I used to think that. Have you ever had a gun pointed at you? Ever been beaten with a baseball bat? Ever been stabbed? Come back when you've taken a ride in an ambulance and tell me that life isn't precious. Come back after you've lived on the streets because you were evicted. And tell me that homeless people are leeches.

I do agree that prisons are over crowded, some of the jobs that Obama wants to create should be in building new prisons, and hiring police to guard them. I would sign up if I were old enough. Re-evaluate your belief system, and then I might respect you. And, on top of everything else I do, I've been told by numerous people, that I'm one of the most respectful people they've ever met.

Life is not precious just because it is life.

It is what you make it, as I said in a post.

It is obvious many of you do not read my posts, and go off of a few words I have stated in my OP and bend it to your own imagination. Because, YOU are right and if an idea doesn't go along with yours, you instantly smash it into the ground with no backing or debate.

So, for those who have actually read the thread - any comments?

Being as young as you are, and living the life you have, I would say you have been somewhat sheltered from the harsh realities of Life. That is completely understandable. Not all of us have lived the 'upper middle class' lifestyle you have, so we have not all had the same advantages you have, either. Unfortunately, living in that 'bracket' also has its disadvantages, being that you are not confronted day to day with the realities of being lower class and wondering how or if you can improve your prospects.

That said, we all are both blessed, and cursed, with the gift of Free Will, which means that we do make mistakes, and some people who have been downtrodden their whole lives do tend to make more of those because they do not believe their lives will ever get any better. I am not making excuses for those people, I am merely stating a point of view based on what I have seen and experienced myself. In short, do not judge others until you have been where they have been.

Suppose I asked someone what the bottom line to life was. And assuming they didn’t provide me with the answer, I abandoned them on a deserted island. Returning after a few days, to ask them again. Repeating this procedure until either they realised it was life itself, or were no longer alive to appreciate that. Doesn’t too much civilization contribute to a blurred perception of reality?

Spiram, why don’t you write your name so it can be read? It does not show up on a black background at all.

Now then, where did I say I was “cheap”?
Was it in relation to executing criminals versus warehousing them at our expense?
I don’t call that cheap. I call it being economical.
Warehousing them forever, just makes no sense at all.
Their very existence is a drag on the rest of us.
Don’t you think that the money could be better spent helping the kids of those less well paid to a better life?
I still have an image from my grade school days of a classmate coming across the school yard one cold and windy day, dressed in a coat that was at least 2 sizes too small, it had one button on it, she had no scarf on her head, and no stockings .
But you would rather support the incorrigible social misfits.

Taken care of by nature Azmus? Nature has never done any such thing, and don’t hold your breath looking for it to happen in the future.

To “Question”….Hitler did not just round up people based on his eugenics program. The Jews had openly declared war on Germany. They were “enemy combatants/terrorists” under the present definition of the terms. You should also get curious as to why they jews were expelled from every country they ever lived in for all of known history.
And don’t ever expect to learn the truth of anything in our public schools.

Now then, tell me exactly what is wrong with a “master race”.

Putting prisoners to work. Ah, yes. That is fine for the non-violent ones. But how about the crazies who would not work? Are you going to trust them with a shovel? Use a little logic please.

Mr.Smith, being a homeless bum, is not the same thing as being a nefarious miscreant. Does anyone know why he is homeless? Maybe he just likes it that way.

Unit541, Your “free will” ends when you use it to harm another in any way.
If you are going to walk that mile in someone else’s shoes, you should know that by the time you are a mile away and you have his shoes, you can say anything you want about him.

BlesUTP, how many deviants and criminals are you having as house guests?

YAAY Frito - that was well said and should leave no doubts about it, but take heart and be patient. There are those who WILL NOT see. Maybe you should not have told us how old you are. People are judging you on your age and not what you are saying. Actually, they should not be judging you at all. They should be addressing the subject/message. For some it is so much easier to just shoot the messenger.
You just keep thinking for yourself. Remember it is those who think outside the box that make the biggest contributions to the world. BTW, you might want to give up the Fritos etc. They will mess up your health big time.

Bluemoon, you and your silly“what if’s” How about what if the #-up falls on his head and discovers a bacteria that will kill every human on Earth?

Nick, miscreants are not limited to the poor, they run across all social levels.









[edit on 2-4-2009 by OhZone]

[edit on 2-4-2009 by OhZone]

Originally posted by Slate
So you argue that all violent people should be violently killed?

So you argue that all people not contributing to society should be round up and shot?

Are you saying that people can't change, and that people don't even have a right to live and make mistakes?

What are you trying to accomplish OP? While these ideas may make up your version of a utopia , I think I speak for a good many people when I say that you sound your advocating a totalitarian nightmare where everyone is a slave constantly facing the barrel of a gun.

Please correct me if I misunderstood.

hahaha ... killing is a mistake ... ok ... well, the day some one you know get killed you will say, well, the person did a mistake, but the person can change ... right ... go out there champz ...

the real problem is that human life doesnt have any value ... thats the truth ... you can kill and nothing bad is going to happen to you ... they say your life has 10 years of the killer's life value ... ok ... if thats what u think its right ... then good for you ..

reply to post by OhZone

Spiram, why don’t you write your name so it can be read? It does not show up on a black background at all.

it is what it is - like it or don't - everything isn't about you

Now then, where did I say I was “cheap”? Was it in relation to executing criminals versus warehousing them at our expense? I don’t call that cheap. I call it being economical. Warehousing them forever, just makes no sense at all.

yes, that would be my view on your position

when I look at another human being - I can't think of money - I see a person

argue it any way you want - what it comes down to is your main concern is not spending money on people you've decided are worthless

your scale is very different than my scale, no doubt - are you measuring everyone against yourself?

Their very existence is a drag on the rest of us.

about warehousing - what are you even talking about? Prisons? Mental institutions? Toughsheds?

I like people - even the imperfect people - so shoot me

that was just an expression OhZone - don't go getting all excited

Don’t you think that the money could be better spent helping the kids of those less well paid to a better life? I still have an image from my grade school days of a classmate coming across the school yard one cold and windy day, dressed in a coat that was at least 2 sizes too small, it had one button on it, she had no scarf on her head, and no stockings . But you would rather support the incorrigible social misfits.

rather? You use the word rather as if you know something about me - you don't

everyone would get the help they need if it were up to me - but it's not

people wouldn't be murdered because they were inconvenient

you use an example of a little girl without protection from the cold to justify killing people? that's not an argument - it's an excuse

I think you see something you think is unjust - and you want to make someone pay

maybe you think this is about balance or justice of some sort - but it's just a backward version of vengeance

does it occur to you at all that your description of this little girl's circumstances could apply to many people - and maybe contribute to why some people have a harder time than others fitting in? Not everyone recovers from hardship in the same way - some people don't survive it at all - not whole

you would kill them for not being as strong as you? are you the person all humans should be measured against?

how much are you worth?

one very real difference between you and me - I would actually pay to warehouse you :-)

I seriously doubt you would return the favor - it would just be easier to be rid of me

fortunately - so far as I know - it's not up to you

[edit on 4/2/2009 by Spiramirabilis]