New apache helicopter? Piasecki VTDP.

In late October 2000 Piasecki Aircraft Corp., Essington, Pennsylvania was awarded a $26.1 million four-year US Navy contract for the design, fabrication and flight test of a Vectored Thrust Ducted Propeller (VTDP) compound helicopter. The compound helicopter is based on a modified Sikorsky H-60 Hawk family airframe. Sponsored by the Office of Naval Research, the primary objective of this flight demonstration is to show the potential improvements in speed, range, survivability and reduced life cycle costs attainable with Piasecki's VTDP technology.

The VTDP compound helicopter achieves these goals by adding fixed wings and a tail-mounted ducted propeller.

The compound helicopter confers several advantages to the armed forces. One of the most important, in the post-Cold War era of limited military budgets, is lower operating costs. By lowering fatigue loads and vibration levels, the technology can reduce costs and extend the life of parts. The technology also enables a rotary wing aircraft to fly at up to 220 knots.

US Army contract to develop a compound helicopter incorporating the Piasecki Vectored Thrust Ducted Propeller (VTDP) concept for the AH-64 Apache and AH-1W SuperCobra is nearing completion. Programme objectives have been met or exceeded by both the AH-64 VTCAD and AH-1W VTCAD configurations, resulting in increased maximum level flight speed to over 200 kt (370 km/h; 230 mph); 50 per cent improvement in longitudinal acceleration and deceleration capability in level flight; 50 per cent decrease in turn and pull-up radii at speeds in excess of 95 kt (176 km/h; 109 mph); and handling qualities that are at least as good as those of the baseline AH-64A Apache and AH-1W Super cobra.

The modified, simulated aircraft was able to do so, while hovering, with the nose as much as 21 deg. up or 10 deg. down.

Another interesting feature of this design is nearly doubled combat range.
Plus ther is no need to develop new helo, the only one thing that needs to be done is replacing the tail and adding new lifting wings - this will greatly improve flight characteristics.

Piasecki VTDP may be used on Apache, Supercobra, Seahawk, Blackhawk and Super Stallion.

Links:

www.air-attack.com...
www.stratmag.com...


[edit on 30-10-2004 by longbow]

Some pics for you:









VTDP schematics

That looks like a similar concept to the Lockheed AH-56 Cheyenne. Enlarged stub wings, and a tail rotor that provides forward propulsion.


This new project is not the first Piasecki design to feature a ducted fan in the tail.
The Piasecki 16H-1 Pathfinder:

wow nice find

If they go this way with our helos then the Camanche looks like a really REALLY big waste of money

Originally posted by American Mad Man

If they go this way with our helos then the Camanche looks like a really REALLY big waste of money

And what about Osprey? I personally think that an upgraded CH-53 can do almost everything that Osprey can do - and it will cost only fraction of projected Osprey price (40. mil. $). Remember there is nothing too complicated to do - you just need to replace the tailrotor with VTDP and add the wings.

For example upgraded SH-60 Seahawk has range over 960 km - more than twice than original. If similar results can be reached with the CH-53 the Osprey could follow the comanche ... VTDP CH-53 could carry 50 marines VS 24 marines on Osprey. Plus it could carry humvee internaly and fly lover during the high-speed phase witch will be ideal for covert operations. Plus it is cheaper, more reliable and less vulnerable than Osprey.


[Edited on 20-4-2004 by longbow]

yeah makes sense nice pics like

this thing looks coool , and they cancelled the comanche, cuz the apache works fine

Another pic - study of next gen compoud helicopter



I wonder if it will be produced or it will be replaced by NOTAR.

www.piasecki.com...

I'm confused. They are great pics of how these projects should look if built, but I thought Piasecki no longer existed? I was under the impression that piasecki became Vertol and merged with Boeing, hence the Vertol 107 and Boeing Chinook. Where have I gone wrong?

Originally posted by waynos
I'm confused. They are great pics of how these projects should look if built, but I thought Piasecki no longer existed? I was under the impression that piasecki became Vertol and merged with Boeing, hence the Vertol 107 and Boeing Chinook. Where have I gone wrong?

No, Frank Piasecki left already before they became Vertol and formed a new company - Piasecki aircraft corp. They are small +/- 50 people and the main product is compoud helicopter. Maybe the BlackHawks will be upgraded in future (just replace tail and add wings) it doesn/t cost much a greatly extends the range - see above.

[edit on 29-10-2004 by longbow]

Ah, I see. Like when Alliott Roe left Avro and later formed Saro, gotcha. When I first saw the pics above I was instantly reminded of the Pathfinder, which I have heard of before, but then I thought the pathfinder was later than the Vertol 107 which was when my confusion set in

Originally posted by machinegunjordan
this thing looks coool , and they cancelled the comanche, cuz the apache works fine

The Camanche was a different type f helicopter then the Apache - it was made to be a LO recon platform. The Apache was/is an attack platform.

It was cancelled because it was desogned to fight the USSR, and thus the high cost of stealth wasn't needed anymore when most threats to US helocopters are RPGs which don't use radar.

Interesting concept, looks a bit strange to me, but I'm sure it works.

Also, the apache with the lots of rockets looks like it can take out quite a few tanks.

Shattered OUT...

Personally, I think those "photos" are somewhat far-fetched; (they really don't look like actual pictures!). The other point being that with such a propeller in the back, and with such a diameter, you have to have pretty long landinding gear, otherwise, the nose in gonna be resting on the ground, and the back(tail) is gonna be in the air; also, in that position, have that rotor turning, and you might even decapitate someone. Point to remember: the "new" AH-64 Longbow, is somewhat better equipped, somewhat stronger turbines, but, NOT faster and NOT with an increased operating range! You have something like that, you need an improved design, to improve range and speed to keep the improved weapons systems, or else, you basically have a "new" bucket of s%%t! Sorry, that's a no-go!

It would be wierd seeing one of them fly past your house

Those pictures look very fake.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
The Camanche was a different type f helicopter then the Apache - it was made to be a LO recon platform. The Apache was/is an attack platform.

It was cancelled because it was desogned to fight the USSR, and thus the high cost of stealth wasn't needed anymore when most threats to US helocopters are RPGs which don't use radar.

The Commanche was an earlier project than the Apache, I *think* competing against the Cobra. It was cancelled because at the time, the USAF took offence at the Army operating any airborne hardware at all, and because of the large fixed wings and pushing propellor on the Commanche, they managed to convince the powers that be that it was really more of a fixed wing aircraft, and therefor should be under USAF control.

That combined with poor performance led to the project being cancelled.

I thought that was the S-67 Blackhawk, or am I reading you wrongly?

Not the Comanche?

Originally posted by waynos
I thought that was the S-67 Blackhawk, or am I reading you wrongly?

Not the Comanche?

Urgh, sorry, yes. I saw Commanche and thought of the Cheyenne :/ Hey, its been a long weekend

That has got to be one of the coolest things i have ever seen..... wow