Guns on a Plane: Obama secretly ends program that lets pilots carry guns.

Guns on a Plane: Obama secretly ends program that lets pilots carry guns.

washingtontimes.com

After the September 11 attacks, commercial airline pilots were allowed to carry guns if they completed a federal-safety program. No longer would unarmed pilots be defenseless as remorseless hijackers seized control of aircraft and rammed them into buildings.

Now President Obama is quietly ending the federal firearms program, risking public safety on airlines in the name of an anti-gun ideology.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Woohoo...what's next!

I can't understand this logic. He says he is removing the guns from the pilots for the safety of the passengers. Hmmm, really, so by allowing the hijackers almost NO resistance this will somehow help...

This guy promised change, and boy are we getting it. Way to go uninformed americans who voted for him based on skin color and "coolness", not ability or smarts.

washingtontimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Like if a pilot wanted to kill everyone on board pulling a gun is more dangerous than just diving the plane into the ground?

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Thats exactly what I thought. If he was some mental case and lost his mind and wanted to just "go off" a simple nose dive from 32,000 feet would do it.

The major issue I have is how Obama is going to take the money from training the piolts and keeping them sharp in case of an emergency, and not allowing them to carry, BUT he will pay some of his friends (you know these retards on this investigating panel will be his friends) who have ZERO knowledge of what it takes to fly or be armed and deal with these situations, making overall decisions. SAD!

Why would a pilot or co-pilot do that again? It makes absolutely no sense to kill yourself, others and then crash the plane you were driving. Like honestly, I don't understand this, I guess in Obama's mind he's thinking "Okay, but what if the hijackers manage to grab the pilot's gun, then what?", but the truth should be that if someone is going for the pilot's gun, that the pilot will do what is needed to be done(Shoot in the limbs/ fire off a warning shot) to tell the hijackers to get the # off, calm the # down and wait until we land so they can be arrested.


But now, what can they do to defend themselves? It's so stupid.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


It is, because crazy people don't kill people....guns kill people.

Everyone knows that!

Obama said change, Why people thought it was good change baffles me. the guy is so left i mean come on..

his posters looked like the Russian communist posters of the 40 and 50's

he is the most liberal senator

he said he wants change *not the good kind*

he went to a racist pastor for 20 years and somehow never heard one speech against america by rev wrong

he said the economies fundamentals are sound when 2 days prior he said we are screwed


i saw through this in january 2007 when he first came onto the presidental scene, its sad that people hear change and think OOOOOO THIS IS WHAT WE NEED!!! CHANGE!!!

the only change those people are going to have is two nickels in their pocket.

Originally posted by Swatman
.....................

i saw through this in january 2007 when he first came onto the presidental scene, its sad that people hear change and think OOOOOO THIS IS WHAT WE NEED!!! CHANGE!!!

the only change those people are going to have is two nickels in their pocket.

Yeah, soon "almost" EVERYONE will be equal....equally poor that is.

This saviour mentality that is beings instilled in our Youths, and even brainwashed adults is dangerous. Because under such mentality whatever the "saviour' does is "for a good purpose".

Schools, including Colleges and Universities should teach what Hitler, and others dictators did to get the support of the masses.

I am amazed at how many people, even many "educated people" would try to condone policies, and programs that spell Tyranny/Dictatorship, just because a "saviour" has been sold to them on the promise of "Change" and to "Save The Planet"...



[edit on 18-3-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

After the September 11 attacks, commercial airline pilots were allowed to carry guns if they completed a federal-safety program. No longer would unarmed pilots be defenseless as remorseless hijackers seized control of aircraft and rammed them into buildings.

Yeah right. Guns were taken from the pilots in July 01, months before 911... and they gave them back? HAHAHAHA. Yeah, the pilots just had no guns for 911... Thanks government.

Another attack is coming or what.

[edit on 18-3-2009 by Vitchilo]

This is ok with me. Half the pilots are drunk, so why should we give them guns.?

Guns are good guns are fun I think I will eat some for lunch!

Let's arm everyone in the Federal Corporation. Everyone! That way if anyone gets out of line, bam! freedom administered.

Snarkiness off.

Hmmm. This is bad news. Terrible news.

My friend's father is a captain for American Airlines, he knew some of the guys who lost their lives on 9/11. He was never easy talking about it.

When they first started this program, he was one of the first onboard. I remember him telling us about how rigorous of a training program it was, he had to learn to shoot his USP .45 from his left hand almost as accurately as his right, and there were many safety courses he had to go through. They also did live terrorism drills with blank rounds inside of grounded airplanes. Just like in that move, SWAT.

These are commercial pilots, they're some of the most level-headed guys around. They're awake and alert for long hours, as they may have many lives in their hands at any given time. These guys have been flying for years, commercial pilots have enormous discipline.

I think letting our pilots defend themselves was one of the best ideas we ever came up with in this country. Think of all the lives that could have been saved.

reply to post by Vitchilo


well said.
and sad as well.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Yeah right. Guns were taken from the pilots in July 01, months before 911... and they gave them back? HAHAHAHA. Yeah, the pilots just had no guns for 911... Thanks government.

Another attack is coming or what.

[edit on 18-3-2009 by Vitchilo]

No they weren't. The rule was signed in July 2001 that would take the guns out of the cockpit but it wasn't going into effect until November of 2001. They STARTED taking guns out of the cockpit in 1987. On 9/11 pilots were still allowed to be armed, but none of the airlines would put guns in the cockpit, especially after the Egypt Air crash.

By Jeff Johnson
CNSNews.com Congressional Bureau Chief
September 20, 2001

(CNSNews.com) - A new Federal Aviation Regulation would take away the right of pilots, co-pilots, and navigators to carry firearms and other weapons for self-defense.

Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Paul Takemoto acknowledged Thursday that flight crews have been authorized to carry firearms for the past 20 years.

"That will change on November 14," he said. "The new rule will not include authorization (to carry firearms) and crew members will no longer be allowed to carry arms."

Federal Aviation Regulation 108.11 currently allows armed individuals on aircraft, "if the person having the weapon is authorized to have the weapon by the (airline) and the Administrator (of the FAA) and has successfully completed a course of training in the use of firearms acceptable to the Administrator."

That federal aviation regulation also establishes the conditions under which law enforcement officers and other government officials may be armed on board aircraft. Takemoto indicated ther would be no changes to those regulations.

Takemoto was not aware of whether or not the FAA had ever approved a firearms training course for flight crews, or whether such a request had ever been made. He indicated that the agency was too busy to research the issue in light of the on-going investigation into the hijacking of four passenger jets by terrorists armed with plastic knives and box cutters on September 11.

In response to those attacks, the Front Sight Firearms Training Institute in Las Vegas, Nevada, offered weapons training specifically designed for cockpit crews free to any pilot, co-pilot, or navigator, if their employer requests the training. Dr. Ignatius Piazza, founder of Front Sight, was outraged by the FAA's decision.

"The FAA, in changing the regulation, and preventing the airlines from arming and training their pilots effectively places the blood on their hands for every (future) terrorist act involving the take-over of a cockpit of an airplane," he said.

Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, agreed.

"This is simply going to insure, and reassure the terrorists, that they will be the only ones armed. They will break the law, because they're criminals, and they'll be able to repeat exactly what was done," Pratt said.

"These people haven't learned a thing," he continued, "and they need to be fired, because anybody who thinks self defense is a bad idea doesn't belong in public service."

The FAA's new regulation is also directly at odds with legislation introduced by Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) last Friday.

House Resolution (HR) 2896 would provide that, "no department or agency of the Federal Government shall prohibit any pilot, copilot, or navigator of an aircraft, or any law enforcement personnel specifically detailed for the protection of that aircraft, from carrying a firearm."

Takemoto said the FAA does not comment on pending legislation.

Paul believes pilots should be able to defend themselves and their passengers.

"My approach to this is to allow an airline to take care of their property just like we allow our chemical plants and our refineries to protect their property," he said.

Paul compared the fences and armed guards around such plants to airliners with fortified cockpit doors and an armed crew flight crew

Paul expressed astonishment that the terrorists were able to commandeer four airliners without firearms.

"They did all that without a gun," he said. "If the pilots had had guns, they could have prevented this."

In a letter to the editor of the Wall Street Journal (Friday, Sept. 21), an American Airlines captain agreed that "hardened cockpit doors and armed pilots could have prevented all four of those hijackings."

Captain Brad Rohdenburg suggested making some of the pilots sky marshals. "How much more cost-effective could a security program be?" he asked.

"At the very least, let us carry pocket knives again. As Benjamin Franklin said, 'If you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you.'"

www.familyfriendsfirearms.com...

(Mods note, that I copied the entire article because the original source is offline now.)

[edit on 3/18/2009 by Zaphod58]

Alright I'm not going to say exactly what I do but I work in that industry and I am on a plane almost every day.

And as liberal as I am and as much trouble that it gets me into here on ATS....

I really don't like this.


TRUST ME, coming from someone in "the biz", we're all better off having FFDOs on board. Everything to do with FFDOs is regulated to the 10th degree and trust me, everyone who works on an airplane, regardless of how they feel about guns, prefers it that way.

HOWEVER,

Again, I could see some logic in it so I'm not going to freak out. Some people "in the biz" yet again are uncomfortable with FFDOs on their flight...probably because when you know a few pilots...they are not all "Sully"s...if you know what I mean...

As long as you don't take away my Federal Air Marshals-we're cool.





[edit on 18-3-2009 by awake_awoke]

Originally posted by awake_awoke

As long as you don't take away my Federal Air Marshals-we're cool.

From my understanding these retards have cut the FAM budgets hard and something like 73% of flights now are FAM free!!!! It blows my mind how we will cut budgets in areas that actually DO help keep people safe, and allocate it to some other BS program....Thank GOD I can fly armed anywhere I travel thanks to my Sheriff....

Just as a way of an update - the Obama admin. denying the Wash. Times article ..

Fox - Feds Deny Obama seeks to end program

Federal officials are denying a report that the Obama administration is seeking to end a program that allows trained airline pilots to carry guns.

In an editorial published Tuesday in The Washington Times, the newspaper wrote that "President Obama is quietly ending the federal firearms program, risking public safety on airlines in the name of an anti-gun ideology."

Sterling Payne, a spokeswoman for the Transportation Security Administration, denied the report and said the program that oversees a reported 12,000 federal flight deck officers (FFDO) is actually expanding.

"It's inaccurate, this program continues to grow," Payne told FOXNews.com of the editorial. "TSA continues to recruit and put new FFDOs on planes, and we continue to train them and do recurring training."

So which is true?

Originally posted by rcwj75


From my understanding these retards have cut the FAM budgets hard and something like 73% of flights now are FAM free!!!!

Not true

No worries!

From the article:

Only anti-gun extremists and terrorist recruits are worried about armed pilots.

That about sums it up.

Take if from an airline pilot. There are lots of FFDOs doing great things and helping keep the air traffic safe from another 9/11. The article said there are about 12,000 armed pilots out there. I'd say that's a pretty good number.

That being said, out of those 12000, there are a few, let's call them Barney Fifes, out there who aren't as disciplined as they should be. So while I hate to see the money taken away from the training budget, some additional oversight is not a bad thing. Therefore, I don't agree with the alarmist view of the original article.

The problem however, is the perception. It will be seen as harassment. This is a bad thing for an all volunteer/unpaid force. FFDOs are not reimbursed for any expenses. All the costs from the initial training, regular requalifications, and the required refresher course come out of the FFDO's pocket. Add a perceived additional harassment and we may see FFDO numbers dwindle as folks decide it is no longer worth the hassle.

I hope that scenario does not come about. The FFDO program is an incredibly cost-effective deterrent. It provides pilots the training and equipment to respond to a different kind of inflight emergency.