Olmec Giant Stone Heads Mystery Solved?

Thanks Slayer excellent find. You get my star! This stuff it truly interesting. I'll keep on with it.

reply to post by wonderworld


Hey thanks that means a lot to me thanks.
I'll keep posting more information as it becomes available.

Originally posted by kidflash2008
I am open to the possibility that the Americas were visited by ancient Africans, Egyptians, Europeans, etc. It is too bad much of the ruins were destroyed by oil companies and such just to get the oil. They did not know the historic value and knowledge to be gained from such ruins.
I think all the statues and monuments are beautiful no matter who created them.

I hope to one day visit those ancient ruins (during their winter of course!) before the bell tolls for me.

yeah that is sad.
I wish I could just take a time machine and just stop at certain locations in time to watch them build the stuff like the pyramids of Egypt and see the Olmec a their height

Its been a bit too read, but thanks Slayer, its been really interesting.
Cheers Zazz

reply to post by zazzafrazz


Sorry about that I tried to cram everything into that. There is just so much to cover I had to start another thread.

i think the facial features are clearly african american. just like the facial features of other carvings are clearly chinese (some of the writing on statues has been identified (AND READ) as shang chinese BY a shang chinese scholar). i dont think there's any getting around either of these two situations; and i think archaeologists have been smoking too much pot if they dont think these statues represent chinese and african americans. i think its laughable to even debate it.

i'm not sure whether the african americans would have been ball players or not - thats an interesting idea maybe.

i think there are a lot of depictions of the asian types flying in strange 'jaguar vehicles' and wearing helmets. but there arent depictions that i know of of the african americans doing this, so maybe they were ballplayers, altho, to have heads that size, they must have been important?

there are also depictions of caucasian race (they look hittite or phonecian) with beards on some statues. perhaps it was an ancient pan global trade centre or something.



[edit on 12-4-2009 by rapunzel222]

reply to post by rapunzel222


There are stories of an ancient Indian tribe in northern South America that came down from central America called the Chins who settled into the Amazon basin.


Also there are these guys

Chimor

Chimor (also Kingdom of Chimor) was the political grouping of the Chimú culture that ruled the northern coast of Peru, beginning around 850 AD and ending around 1470 AD. Chimor was the largest kingdom in the Late Intermediate period, encompassing 1000 km of coastline and including up to 2/3 of the people of the Andes. The greatest surviving ruin of this civilization is the mud city of Chan Chan.

The Chimú grew out of the remnants of the Moche culture. The first valleys seem to have joined forces willingly, but Sican was acquired through conquest. They also were significantly influenced by the Cajamarca culture and the Huari. According to legend the capital Chan Chan was founded by Taycanamo who arrived in the area by sea.

Chimor was the last kingdom that had any chance of stopping the Inca. But the Inca conquest was begun in the 1470s by Tupac Inca, defeating to the local emperor Minchancaman, descendant of Tacaynamo, and was nearly complete when Huayna Capac assumed the throne in 1493 AD.

Their ceramics are all black. They are also known for their exquisite and intricate metal-working, which was one of the most advanced in pre-Columbian times.

Originally posted by rapunzel222
i think the facial features are clearly african american. just like the facial features of other carvings are clearly chinese (some of the writing on statues has been identified (AND READ) as shang chinese BY a shang chinese scholar). i dont think there's any getting around either of these two situations; and i think archaeologists have been smoking too much pot if they dont think these statues represent chinese and african americans. i think its laughable to even debate it.

But the features AREN'T African. Or Chinese.

Africans have long skulls shaped like this: 0 -- Native Americans have broad skulls that are round (when viewed from the top) like this: O . Africans don't have an "epicanthic eyefold" en.wikipedia.org...

Some Native Americans have it.

i'm not sure whether the african americans would have been ball players or not - thats an interesting idea maybe.

There were no African Americans in South America before the mid 1800's. "African Americans" are people of African descent who were born here in America and are often of mixed racial background.

i think there are a lot of depictions of the asian types flying in strange 'jaguar vehicles' and wearing helmets.

Could you link to some of the pictures?

there are also depictions of caucasian race (they look hittite or phonecian) with beards on some statues. perhaps it was an ancient pan global trade centre or something.

Could you link to pictures of "hittites" or "caucasians" with beards? I'm not an expert on the Mayan/Incan/Olmec art, but I've seen quite a bit of it and am not aware of any that existed prior to the arrival of the Europeans.

...but I'm always willing to look at pictures. Got links?



[edit on 12-4-2009 by rapunzel222]

Originally posted by SLAYER69
There are stories of an ancient Indian tribe in northern South America that came down from central America called the Chins who settled into the Amazon basin.

Mmmmkay. That's a new one for me. Do you have a source for that particular claim? I've checked, and don't see it mentioned on the web (although perhaps my search methods are at fault here.)

I will admit that I'm more than a bit suspicious of this claim, because no one from the area of China ever called their people "Chinese" or even "Chin." Wikipedia has a smallish discourse on this, as well as the fact that they tended to name themselves for the dynasty that was ruling their area at the time.
en.wikipedia.org...

"Chin" appears to be from the Sanskrit and from about 300 AD. There is currently an "Ak-Chin" tribe in Arizona, but this is a tribe created in 1912 that is composed of resettled tribal groups from other areas. There is a tribal group called the "Chins" that are in Myanmar (Burma) but I believe they're a fairly recent tribe and not an old one.

There's even a "Tiddim Chin" language family, but it's a Siberian language group. I'm not sure if that was the source of what you came across (since most Native American ancestors apparently came across the Bering Strait and originated in Siberia.)

Could you link to pictures of "hittites" or "caucasians" with beards? I'm not an expert on the Mayan/Incan/Olmec art, but I've seen quite a bit of it and am not aware of any that existed prior to the arrival of the Europeans.

...but I'm always willing to look at pictures. Got links?

That would be Quetzalcoatl. Another bearded god depicted is Itzamna:



Notice the similarities between this guy - The stylized pointed beard and including the "was-scepter" or crook on Itzamna's shoulder - very similar to the ones held by Egyptian royalty.


Allegedly he arrived from the east by a winged ship:

A caption from the source site reads "The image to the left is Itzamna arriving from the east paddling a canoe (c. 1200 BC). The image to the right is the galleon of Rameses III (c. 1175 BC). The Maya used canoes. They didn't have ships. Notice the row of "wings" along the side of the canoe that Itzamna is paddling. The Mayan artist who made this image had almost certainly never seen a ship. The artist was probably working from a verbal description of a "canoe" with rows of oars along the sides and sails that enabled it to "fly" before the wind."

SOURCE

Yes and make no mistake the "crook" is not simply a similarity but is indeed what it appears to be.

[edit on 30-4-2009 by Logarock]

reply to post by SLAYER69


I feel that the noses of these giant heads clearly show damage from being broken sometime repeatedly and never set like modern boxers do. The result after a few games would be a mashed up face and nose. Let’s take a look at a few heads here and notice the bridge of the nose many show a line and some show healing from massive trauma.

----------------------
I don't feel like this explains the facial features. The forehead ridge seen their obviously is a trait that these people either possessed or were familiar with -- maybe they interacted with people that looked like this or they themselves could have had a segment of the population that had this ridge feature. It might have been considered a superior feature or they might have had special respect for those with this. So many possibilities!

I feel this is more likely because I've noticed there are people of different backgrounds who have this ridge. I've known African Americans and African Natives that have this feature. I was married to a man of German descent who had this feature, and very prominently. I've seen a number of other Anglo men with this. And you'll probably agree, women are never seen with this ridge. A male skull always possess some ridge, usually much smaller, but we've all seen guys with what some call this "caveman" brow ridge.

But yours is a great theory that obviously took a lot of thought! I yearn for answers about ancient civilizations and people too, but realize it's not likely the majority of our questions will ever be answered.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer



Notice as well that the ship or boat has a figure head stylization on the front.

Quetzalcoatl was the inspiration for Thor Heyerdahl to make his infamous Kon-Tiki trip to the Americas. He believed Quetzalcoatl was Nordic. The Aztec believed Cortez was the return of Quetzalcoatl, because he was bearded, much to their demise.

More on the "crook".

From Sumeria.


A prayer for Rim-Sin (Rim-Sin E): translation (Sumerian)

......, who is fitted for holy lustration rites, Rim-Sîn, purification priest of An, who is fitted for pure prayers rites, whom you summoned from the holy womb ......, has been elevated to lordship over the Land; he has been installed as shepherd over the black-headed. The staff which strengthens the Land has been placed in his hand. The shepherd's crook which guides the living people has been attached at his side. As he steps forward before you, he is lavishly supplied with everything that he offers with his pure hands.



You can see that the Sumerian priest An is but the same as the Egyptian Annu as Early Egypt after the unification by Narmer from the Summer area, was but a vassal state until it grew beyond the control.

The examples of Sumerian royal symbolism found in the artistic representations of kings in central America, the crook and false beard being just two examples of a multitude of Sumerian royal symbols used by the Maya in stone and codex, are examples that represent a direct civilizing and cultural influence of Sumeria and/or Egypt on central America.

Its interesting that the longest records of family linage in Egypt and central America are those of scribal families. Both house employed the monkey scribe as patron God.



[edit on 5-5-2009 by Logarock]

reply to post by ErmengardeTenderstone


There is so much evidence of cross culture but again unless we find concrete proof. Take these for examples.



Another bearded statue so it could be said that he looks Caucasian or very Asian here are some more.

This is a very rare pre columbian wooden sculpture found in Guatemala.


This one here and the one above reminded me of some very famous Chinese Terracotta statues.




Now compare the two Olmec works of art to these from China.



Also we need to consider that although the Olmec are famous for their Giant Head sculptures that they were also the oldest and seemed to have built the most advanced pyramids way before the Mayans and Aztecs.

The Great Pyramid of Cholula, also known as Tlachihualtepetl (Nahuatl for "artificial mountain"), is a huge complex located in Cholula, Puebla, Mexico. It is the world's largest monument and largest Pre-Columbian pyramid by volume. Main article: Great Pyramid of Cholula

Cholula is most famous as the site of the Great Pyramid of Cholula, the largest man-made pyramid and monument by volume in the world.

The temple-pyramid complex was built in four stages, starting from the 3rd century BCE through the 9th century CE, and was dedicated to the deity Quetzalcoatl.

It is the Oldest and Largest it is more advanced than all the rest that followed. This small section here is only the small base entrance into the great pyramid here are some pictures of the whole thing.



Now if you consider that this is just the small first steps of the pyramid it then really becomes amazing when you consider the age.



Here is what some believe the complex looks like if it would be completely excavated.


Now compare the above to this well known pyramid also located in the area supposedly from a much later period.


Pyramid of the Sun

History

The name Pyramid of the Sun comes from the Aztecs, who visited the city of Teotihuacán centuries after it was abandoned; the name given to the pyramid by the Teotihuacanos is unknown.

There are several Olmec heads that portray them "weeping", but I haven't been able to find an image online. The weeping figures are in the earliest style, which may be an indicator of a people in mourning or lamenting a great loss. The artwork after this period is clearly very Asian influenced.

Is this a sign the earliest Olmec (those African in appearance) were conquered or overrun by an Asiatic race?

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


Not much proof of the African connection But plenty of the Asian one.

reply to post by Byrd

"Africans don't have an "epicanthic eyefold"


Not true the Sans of South Africa as well as a few West African tribes have epicanthic eyefolds. Look it up with Google.