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Catholic Church blasts 9-yr-old rape victim, family for abortion

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posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by stereovoyaged
 


May I ask what your beliefs are then?

Simply because depending on what they are, you would be advocating the removal of your right to worship whatever is you do.

In my case it's mother nature, and millions of people follow my path as well. It would seem ridiculous that I would not be able to do so freely in public while keeping things to myself.

To tell you the truth, I am not offended when I see muslims or Christians praying in the same room or in public, those are not forcing you're beliefs on people, that is simply using your faith to help you through dificult times.

Although I agree that some of these major religions should not have the power they have, outlawing them is still humanly wrong and would cause some crazy kind of uproar.

I think what you are refferring too would be religious protests against things such as gay rights and medical research that may conflict with somebody's religious beliefs. That I am all for.

But making something illegal only makes that thing more valuable to the people who cherish it, and it would only bring about crime streaks in relation to this, puttin innocent people in jail for no reason.

~Keeper




posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by stereovoyaged
 





i'd say we publically execute the pope as START


This is the type of statement that will cause ATS to be labeled an organization that encourages terrorism and violent crime.


Where are the moderators here?
This entire thread has gotten out of hand.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


Ashley, I have seen many of your posts over my time here that I would blatantly disagree with, as happens sometimes when religious viewpoints are discussed... I've also agreed with some, for that matter



but i just so had to give you a star for your post there. Out of all the posts I have ever seen from you, this one shows the most christ-light, and I'm really proud of you for stating it all.


I know it's a sticky issue with you because of your strength of stance against abortion and all it entails, but in that post, instead of just a knee-jerk reaction, you spoke with your heart. For that I commend you.


To the topic.. I agree with many who have here stated, go for the step dad in this case, and leave this poor girl alone. Frankly, why her case has been exposed so publicly is sick, and protections have been put into place precicely so that the lives of these poor children will not be devastated further by the callousness of sick individuals that hate her for something out of her control.

It's sick, and quite frankly, anyone who claims to be a true follower of Christ would never do what they are doing. They should use their responses to this issue be a guide on how they measure up to the master they claim to serve.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 02:28 PM
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I don't agree with abortion, but these conditions were extraordinary. The child (the nine year old) may not have lived through childbirth, as her body had not reached full maturity, and there was was a risk to the unborn baby. There was a chance that the baby might not live.

Also, the child was traumatised enough with the rape, let alone having to face the responsibility of motherhood. The church is clearly wrong in this instance.

It isn't the same as a sexually active 19 year old finding herself pregnant. She is aware of her actions.

This child didn't ask for what happened to her, and I think and believe the Lord with His immense love and power would be forgiving.

Something similiar happened to me when I was 14 years of age 1970's-a classmate). Even at 14 years of age; I knew I wasn't ready to be a mother. I am not going too deep into it, but let me just say I was where that girl is now.

I miscarried,although, I didn't realize, until much later that what I saw in the toilet was a fetus. Needless to say, I would not have spoken about it here on the forum, but I felt I need to, as I clearly know where this child is emotionally.

I was fortunate that I didn't realize, until I was much older that I had been pregnant and miscarried, as a result of rape. He hadn't penetrated me, as I was fighting him off, but apparently, penetration isn't necessary, so long as the sperm enters the canal.

A child should not be punished by the church for something completely outside her control. I now wonder, if the reason I had had the experience with being raped was for this point and time.

If I knew how, I would contact the Vatican and demand that they apologise to the family and the child for something they clearly do not understand. They are theologians, but they do not know the mind of the Lord.

May G-d forgive the Catholic Church for traumatising the child and the family even more.

Although, I am of Jewish descent, my granddad converted to Catholiscism, before he had my dad and uncle. He was a devout Catholic. Even he would be appalled that the church would treat this family so badly. Shame on them.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 02:34 PM
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They excommunicated the girl but not the rapist -what kind of sick,twisted logic is that?



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by rachel07
 





A child should not be punished by the church for something completely outside her control. I now wonder, if the reason I had had the experience with being raped was for this point and time.

I agree that the child should not be punished by the church, and in fact, she WASN'T. The church did NOT punish her, but her mother, and the doctors were excommunicated. Now, this issue is certainly a tough one, and I don't pretend to begin to understand all of the details. However, the perpetrator IS in jail. The tough questions still remain, such as "Where was the mother when this abuse was going on? How could this have happened over so long a period of time, without any knowledge on the part of the mother?
Before people start with the flaming, I absolutely despise the stepfather, and hope he gets everything he deserves.

Now, as to excommunication- it is a law of the church. For those that aren't Catholics, quite bluntly, it is none of your business. No one is being physically harmed by excommunication. People are excommunicated when they break certain laws of the church to which they freely belong.

Here at ATS, if you break certain T & C of ATS, you are EXCOMMUNICATED, or banned from ATS. You agree to those rules when you sign up. This is no different. Furthermore, if people aren't owners or stakeholders in ATS, they have no right to dictate what rules are "just" or "not just".

Like it or not, this abortion resulted in the death of 2 children. Only God knows the reason for this situation. Sometimes the church makes decisions that are not fathomable, and sometimes God seems to allow things to happen that are not fathomable. For those of us that believe, we have to accept that we are not wise enough to understand all of the ways of God. That is the meaning of FAITH. I don't expect people without it to understand anything that I am saying, however.

It is amazing how some people can be so righteous about these things, showing alleged concern for a child, while advocating KILLING the pope. Now that is hypocrisy.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by karl 12
They excommunicated the girl but not the rapist -what kind of sick,twisted logic is that?


Exactly.

It shows, truly, how twisted morality can be.

It's absolutely no different than muslims in the middle east stoning to death a young child for "adultery" for being raped, or wearing clothes that are outside of "moral standards".

There is NO difference between this case and the catholic church reacting the way they have, or those middle eastern religious "moral fanatics". If the vatican had it's way and it was 200 years ago, she would have already been killed for her "crimes".

There's a big difference between morality and ethics, and this case certainly shows how people are, in the end.

No, the pope should not be killed, no one should be. He might want to pray a bit more, though, and meditate on what the master he claims to represent would have done in the situation

[edit on 9-3-2009 by Jomina]



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 02:51 PM
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This is just a reminder that there will be no tolerance for posts that discuss/advocate any harm to any individual.

Thank you.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by karl 12
 





They excommunicated the girl but not the rapist -what kind of sick,twisted logic is that?

WHY do you people continue to LIE about this story?
THE GIRL WAS NOT EXCOMMUNICATED:

www.time.com...

Archibishop Jose Cardoso Sobrinho of the coastal city of Recife announced that the Vatican was excommunicating the family of a local girl who had been raped and impregnated with twins by her stepfather, because they had chosen to have the girl undergo an abortion. The Church excommunicated the doctors who performed the procedure as well



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


As I said in my previous two post regarding this, I AM IN NO WAY saying ppl shouldnt' be allowed to worship, I am saying, we need to abolish these "big business" churches, preachers (and I know not all) are very wealthy and looked after. They wear nice suits, gold rings and drive expensive cars. Christ there is more gold in Vatican City than fort knox. As far as my beliefs, I do not believe "that book", I am open minded to the belief of intellegent design. BUT, my belief is that I dont know and I find it dangerous to believe in something like a God that as long as you repent, ask for forgiveness, etc your actions have no consequences. So (and just using Catholosism as an example again,) if hilter had confession before he died, he'd go to heaven????



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 


I do appologize, that was not right and said in bad taste. I do not condone murder whatsoever



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 03:24 PM
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you know what, this is probally gonna get deleted for being off topic, but its pisses me off when ppl defend organized religion as they do. They ask you to give, give, give. But if you took the wealth accumulated by the Catholic Church just in *snip* Fancy hats and Gold this and Ruby Studded this, you could end world hunger twice over. Im sure thats what a humble carpenter born in a manger had in mind as paying tribute to him. Open your eyes!! Its a scam!! A money making scam.. sure there are some GREAT and nobel ppl that work for churches...but thier work is in vain and for a much bigger evil then the "devil" they condemn

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.



[edit on 3/9/2009 by maria_stardust]



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by stereovoyaged
 


Ok I apologize for the miscomunitcation.

I agree fully with your idea of removing preachers who make millions of dollars a year off of people's faith.

I though you were refering to large sects of religion. My bad


No you are correct, these people are not "the people of God". They are everything that is against God in my opinion, and I'm not even religious.

Now if I'm not mistaken, didn't Jesus preach against rich people?

~Keeper



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 



No need to appologize, religion prob causes more debate than any other topic. I am by no means trying to insult anyones beliefs


[edit on 9-3-2009 by stereovoyaged]



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 03:46 PM
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I typed a whole post but deleted it.

It was very critical of the catholic church and poured scold on the Archbishop. Then I realised that the catholic church only has power over people because the people allow it. Excommunication is an example of the church exercising of that power.

If this had happened in the UK, the family would not have been excommunicated. What does that say for the morality of the church? Isn't the Brazilian God the same as the British God?



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 03:52 PM
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church is a joke ... anyone who still believe it, they believe it because they think there s nothing more to believe ... really guys ... you need to make your own belief ...



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by mithrawept
 





If this had happened in the UK, the family would not have been excommunicated. What does that say for the morality of the church? Isn't the Brazilian God the same as the British God?

Actually, if it happened in the UK, and the persons were Catholic, the results would have been the same. The mother would have been excommunicated, as well as the doctors. The 9 year old would not have been, since she was an innocent victim, by reason of her age.

Again, I'm not defending any of this. However, people are members of an organization, and agree to abide by its rules. This is being ignored on this thread.
The people that hate religion, or the Catholic Church, or Christianity, or whatever organization, don't want to hear the facts. They cling to their hatred, and spread ridiculous lies about such religion, in an attempt to boost their causes for hatred.
If people think that the church is so evil, then why in their minds, don't they think that excommunication is a good thing for people? Wouldn't it just remove people from that "evil" organization that they hate?

Hatred, however, needs no logic. It is, in reality, based upon ignorance.

Again, excommunication is between the church and the members of that church, just as banning is between ATS and its members. Others need not be concerned with the rules, of organizations that you do not belong to.

If you are a member of a church, and don't like its rules, go FOUND YOUR OWN- such as "the Church of doing whatever feels good" or whatever. Better yet, don't belong. Period. No one forces you to belong, and no one keeps you from quitting, or ignoring the organzations you don't like.
However, bottom line, is that it is none of your business what organizations that you are not a member of, decide to enforce or not enforce.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 04:08 PM
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No, not necessarily.

Stealing is wrong. Stealing during a disaster to feed your family...wrong?

Lying is wrong. Do you lie to protect others...throw a surprise birthday party?

Honor thy partner. Do you honor them when they abuse you?

Do not kill. Do you kill in self-defense?

Again, if it was all black and white why would God have given us a brain to reason?



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 


Dude, I could care less about what goes on behind a churches doors. Your missing the point here. We are against one particular belief system influencing decisions that affect everyone, such as gays not allowed to marry, taking away freedom of speech, etc. There should be an ABSOLUTE seperation of church and state. How can you say its only the ppl that are part of a group, when they try to influence everythign. If a presidental candidate got in front of the u.s and said he did not believe in God, collectivly 3/4 of the states would # thier pants in outrage! What about how many people have been killed "in the name of God". Its going on now in Iraq. Jesus, I can't wait for all the bible thumpers to be gone. This world would be better off.

The ideals religion brings forth (be good to your fellow man, love one another, etc) are really good. You shouldn't have to belong to particular group to know that. But, its all the other control, guilt, hate, shunning, etc. If athiest picketed outside a sunday service, there would be blood running down the streets. Churchies are fine with ppl saying whatever they want....until they dont agree, then its a holy war. You know I would respect churchies a lot more if they spent more time fighting things that mattered like global warming...ooooh yeah , thats right, they dont think its real, its gods wrath. Like seriously, if that is not dangerous thinking nothing is.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by stereovoyaged
 





Your missing the point here. We are against one particular belief system influencing decisions that affect everyone, such as gays not allowed to marry, taking away freedom of speech, etc. There should be an ABSOLUTE seperation of church and state. How can you say its only the ppl that are part of a group, when they try to influence everythign. I

Actually, I understand much better than you do. You obviously have problems with T & C, REGARDLESS of whether it involves religion or anything else, like ATS. This thread is about a specific issue, the unfortunate situation of the 9 year old girl who was raped, and the church's response to the abortion.

If you feel strongly about those other issues, start threads on them, or participate in them, if they already exist. You have been derailing this thread much too long. My responses have addressed this issue. If you cannot abide by the T & C of ATS, I suggest you find a forum where they tolerate your lack of adherence to the rules.



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