I'm so sick of this!

One must understyand that there are two distinct types of survivalist.
The Mature adult normally a family guy wanting to best prepare his family.

And the fantasist who want to play out his lone survivor fantasy with his hooted up AR15, fancy 4x4, theses folks all think that whenSit x occurs they can just abandon everything and run away to have a great adventure.
They usually already have a traget enemy be it the government, bikers, democrats, blacks, jews etc, and they always have greatly inflated opinions of their own military prowess. you can spot em most weekends at the rage wearing Digi cam clothing or 511 tactical clothing with all sorts of daft devices attached to their weapons.

Give me the quiet mature unassuming family guy any day.

Well, you can play David to Goliath all you want, but, when the SHTF and I need to protect my family's food, shelter and their very lives?

I'm gonna have my shotgun.

As for a pellet gun?
A gun is a gun - meaning - if you're going to have something in your hand, have something that's worth having in your hand!

What do you want - a pellet gun you have to either pump up to re shoot?
Hold still little wild animal - pump - while I take just a second - pump - to get this thing - pump - ready to shoot - pump - again...
Oh! It ran away!

Or you'll have CO2 cartridges.
If you’re going to carry CO2 cartridges you’re better off using the space in your BOB for .22 amo.

So, it's you and me up against one another in a hunt, or protecting our families, and now, I know I'm going to win.

Good to know.

peace

I was just thinking today how great my pellet gun would be for hunting small game if it came down to it. You can get a box of 5,000 pellets for cheap and it's not a ton of ammo to carry around.

Originally posted by TV_Nation
I was just thinking today how great my pellet gun would be for hunting small game if it came down to it. You can get a box of 5,000 pellets for cheap and it's not a ton of ammo to carry around.

And pellet guns are a hell of a lot easier to get hold of, anyone who is stocking up on guns without a licence may find themselves imprisoned before TSHTF. Not much big game to hunt in a cell......

Great thread...and i agree with the majority of it.

I can see both sides of it though. The people who run around like wannabe black ops agents, are probably spending far too much money on kit that looks good but would have been beter spent on real survival gear.

The unassuming family guy withthe pellet gun and a backyard full of homegrown veg, is fantastic, and probably a lot more able to survive a bad situation.....however....

If TSHTF and people start banging down your door as they know you have food and they don't, you'd better hope your don't bring your pellet gun to a gunfight, because i guaruntee the intruder won't!

A fine and realistic balance is what is needed.

Being ex forces i spent half my life around weapons, however being in the UK i have to sit down and think to myself, what is more likely to happen in the short term?

Do i spend loads on the few weapons we are allowed in the UK, or would it be better spent on water purifying systems and food for now?

I am looking at certain "tools" for looking after my family, but as martial law is less likely at the moment here in the UK than it is in the US, i'll take it easy with the personal armoury!

It's all about keeping it realistic, and thats where i think some people struggle.

I guess it depends on your surroundings though. I know what my neighbours are like here in my sleepy little village, so i would be unlikely to have any of them storming my house for food.

However if my neighbours were well trained, well armed and well angry....i might reconsider the weapon situation.

CX.

Originally posted by Oaktree
For every small game animal I just listed, shotguns are the preferred weapon.
I am in no way insinuating that a .22 could not be used, I'm just stating that millions of avid hunters hit the woods each year, and few are armed with a .22. Fewer are armed with a slingshot. I'm pretty sure it's not even legal to hunt with slingshots.

The one skill I'm trying to get back into is stalking for small prey and to be able to navigate on foot silently without being seen...I was up in the N.E. last summer and was amazed at the sheer number of rabbits running wild, and with patient practice was able to get within a good range for a slingshot-kill on plenty of occaisions and 'mime' the actions to very slowly bring the sling up level, and draw for a shot...was very satisfying to be able to achieve too.

Bows/xbows are unfortunately illegal to hunt with in the UK at present, and air-arms require written permissions from landowners and the like or risk confiscation, fine and/or arrest, but slingshots don't require anything like that. And as rabbits are classed as vermin, no licence is required to hunt them.

But rabbits are something of a rarity in the urban environment where I live, so would look at worms/snails, rats, birds etc as a prime meat-protein source

Originally posted by silo13
Well, you can play David to Goliath all you want, but, when the SHTF and I need to protect my family's food, shelter and their very lives?

I'm gonna have my shotgun.

As for a pellet gun?
A gun is a gun - meaning - if you're going to have something in your hand, have something that's worth having in your hand!

What do you want - a pellet gun you have to either pump up to re shoot?
Hold still little wild animal - pump - while I take just a second - pump - to get this thing - pump - ready to shoot - pump - again...
Oh! It ran away!

Or you'll have CO2 cartridges.
If you’re going to carry CO2 cartridges you’re better off using the space in your BOB for .22 amo.

So, it's you and me up against one another in a hunt, or protecting our families, and now, I know I'm going to win.

Good to know.

peace

Or you could come into the 21st century and get a modern air rifle with a choice of two or three power systems
1 Spring powered up to 30 ft pounds
2 Gas Strut powered up to 35 ft pounds,
3 integral gas bottle reserve good for 40 full power shots.
Many modern air rifles have theoben gas struts or integral air cylinders, 10 round magazines, silent operation, synthetic stocks, laser sights.

Your shotgun is good for 50 yards, after that your outclassed by most weapons.

Ref your last comment "So, it's you and me up against one another in a hunt, or protecting our families, and now, I know I'm going to win." you have to see your target before you can hit it, so you do NOT know you are going to win, The guy with the tactical advantage is going to win, be it who draws first if you are a daft cowboy type, or the guy with the single shot cross bow, or an archer with a recurve, if he can see you but you can not see him you are dead. A big gun does not equate to victory.

.

The one skill I'm trying to get back into is stalking for small prey and to be able to navigate on foot silently without being seen...I was up in the N.E. last summer and was amazed at the sheer number of rabbits running wild, and with patient practice was able to get within a good range for a slingshot-kill on plenty of occaisions and 'mime' the actions to very slowly bring the sling up level, and draw for a shot...was very satisfying to be able to achieve too.


But rabbits are something of a rarity in the urban environment where I live, so would look at worms/snails, rats, birds etc as a prime meat-protein source


Your right about rabbits and other small stuff up here, pigeons, squirrel, rabbit, hair, small deer theres millions of em, recently up Weardale I have taken to using one of those small " Ratter" carbines from Crossman and Webley, They are tiny but can be tweeked to about 15 or more ft pounds, they take rabbit, pigeon and squirrel equally easy, they conceal well which always for better concealled movement and stalking.

I learned something new about slingshiot the other day, took me really by surprise, and old dude who uses his black widow for taking small game showed me the correct way to hold a slingshot, IE hold the grip as normal but instead of having the tool vertical, it should be used horizontal, IE knuckles up and slingshot head pointing across your chest, use can then actually develop an aiming point. Cool, took a bit of practise but it works.

Originally posted by emsed1
This is honestly one of my biggest fears.

I have a lot of shooting experience with various weapons but I have never hunted and I am not sure I could botch my way through field dressing a squirrel, much less a deer or whatever.

However, for self-defense (not against the Army or the PoPo - because I would lose) and keeping my family safe from intruders I will rely on a bigger weapon than a .22. (have a couple of those and a brick of Remington "Lightning" somewhere...)

All in all... I hope it never comes to that but sometimes it looks pretty dark out there.

Field dressing a big game is really not that hard.

once down, feel around on the animals neck, feel for the Adams apple, now once found run your finger up and down pressing on the Adams apple, you will notice that there is a part that feels like it is separated, a indention, this is where you cut the neck, be sure to cut deep and cut the whole wind pipe, as well as the side to cut the main blood veins, then roll the animal over on its back, have a friend hold the leg so you have room and its stable. take your knife and cut a hold about where the belly button would be on a human, put your knife in blade facing twords the animals head and slide it up twords the head, you are not going deep, just cutting the skin. So a good ideas is to place your finger over the point of the knife, so you don't rupture any of the internal organs. Cut up to the Brest bone, exposing the animals insides, then you go the other direction, which is a little trickier, you have to be VERY careful not to rupture the bladder, so slowly cut down until you hit the pelvic bone, (if male cut to one side of the male organs Do not hit the intestines or bladder , can make the meat real nasty. Now the bad part.. go to the hind end of the animal and cut a hole around the anus and other parts if female, following the pelvic bone. again go shallow and be careful not to puncture the bladder or cut the intestines.
cut the fur/ skin along the pelvic bone and expose the bone, you will notice that it is joined bones, a zig zag pattern. using the butt of your knife, thump it good there, or use a saw and cut it in 1/2 carefully.
Now reach in at the top put your arm up twords the animals head and grab the windpipe and pull, it will come out. once that is out, have a friend help you roll the animal over and stand it up, the insides should come right out, and most of the blood. (dont worry not as much as you think. a few cups.)

once drained, take it to where you want, hang it up and start skinning it, just try to take just the skin off, will take a while depending on the size of the animal, but you will get there. Raise it high in a tree away from your camping area and let it hang for a day or two. depending on weather, then you can cut the meat up and smoke it, or do what ever you want.
Start cutting with the leg, follow the muscle line and you should be able to cut a leg off at the socket.
Just remember when cutting meat for food, cut against the grain, so the grain looks like a tree stump lots of rings, makes the meat much more tender, if you cut with the grain, has a tenancy to make it more chewy.

its actually not that hard. I do it several times a year.. the only bad part is the bigger the animal the longer it takes. I cut up a decent elk by my self last year, it took me about 8 hours to cut and wrap all the meat.

Make sure you get a knife sharpener for you bob bag. You will need to resharpen several times cleaning and processing a big animal.



OP you are right, while there is a need for a larger gun, your main weapon is going to be your mind, a good pellet gun will get you a LONG way.
Sage Grouse is some of the best eating you can get..

The other thing most dont think about is, so you got a big game, now what..do you know how to preserve it? if not, and you dont have a lot of people to feed, you will just attract bears etc. and cause yourself more problems.

Main thing with hunting in the wild, is NEVER clean, or process your food where you sleep. That goes for storing it as well. Depends on where everyone lives but here.. we get grizzles , black bear, cats and wolf's..
you may not be the only one with a full belly one night.. and if the predator cant get to the food, you are its next choice.

Originally posted by Northern Raider
I learned something new about slingshiot the other day, took me really by surprise, and old dude who uses his black widow for taking small game showed me the correct way to hold a slingshot, IE hold the grip as normal but instead of having the tool vertical, it should be used horizontal, IE knuckles up and slingshot head pointing across your chest, use can then actually develop an aiming point. Cool, took a bit of practise but it works.

If you allow an hour a day practice for a couple of weeks you'll be able to nail a tin-can size target, about similar size to a rabbit or human head, at 10-15m and a human-torso size target at 25-30m with good consistency

The 'horizontal hold' seems to allow you to draw the projectile-hand back to a greater reach than using the vertical stance (drawing back to the cheek) but requires a bit more practice to get your eye-in for an accurate shot.

Another style I've found works well is to hold the sling with projectile at breast-level, and your other hand relaxed on the handle. As soon as you spot the target, instead of drawing back the sling as you normally would and keeping the body of the slingshot steady, keep your hand holding the sling pouch at your chest, and push out on the handle with other hand to draw, and then release to target...works well for sudden 'snap-shots'

And don't forget that if you break a bowstring on your primary weapon, with a little tinker-time you can easily get your slingshot to fire arrows with good accuracy too (30+" aluminium arrows work a treat!)






[edit on 6-3-2009 by citizen smith]

[edit on 6-3-2009 by citizen smith]

Um, I guess what you are saying is you are sick of people trying to prepare but not knowing how to survive. Not sure there and correct
me if I'm wrong, if so, it's a good point.
What I'm sick of, is naive people who either think the gubment will
save them, there's nothing we can do or they think they can somehow
bug out to the hills and live off the land.
The animals will be all gone before you even get there! Then what?
Most will probably not even last a week at best.
Why is stocking up on food now not even an option for some?
Did we spend all our money on games, dvd's and supersized mickey d's?
What part of- there will be no food later -don't we get?
They say if it gets that bad we're all screwed anyway. B.S.
Guess what happens when you finally make it to the hills, rambo?
YOU will become dog food or fuel for the "mountain men" already there.
Trust me, you wont just want to lay down and say, "dig in I give up".
Ever think someone might be there wth all the food already?
He will have a supreme advantage over any newcomers.
Get your food NOW! Get that garden growing, grow tomatoes
and other food inside your apartment, whatever you can do!
A SHTF scenario will seperate the prepared from the not, real quick.
If you make it past the snares, traps, deadfalls, pits, and other goodies,
there is always the packs of dogs or the good ol' elements working
against you all the time. Etc, Etc, Etc....
Wonder how your gonna practice for all that??


[edit on 6-3-2009 by dodadoom]

"Well, you can play David to Goliath all you want, but, when the SHTF and I need to protect my family's food, shelter and their very lives?

I'm gonna have my shotgun.

As for a pellet gun?
A gun is a gun - meaning - if you're going to have something in your hand, have something that's worth having in your hand!

What do you want - a pellet gun you have to either pump up to re shoot?
Hold still little wild animal - pump - while I take just a second - pump - to get this thing - pump - ready to shoot - pump - again...
Oh! It ran away!

Or you'll have CO2 cartridges.
If you’re going to carry CO2 cartridges you’re better off using the space in your BOB for .22 amo.

So, it's you and me up against one another in a hunt, or protecting our families, and now, I know I'm going to win.

Good to know.

peace "

You guy's are totally twisting my words here, I'M NOT AGAINST YOU GUYS!! I'm giving informations to the retarded "RAH RAH RAH RAMBO STYLE AK-47S AND BAZOOKAS" type of people. I completely understanding why in some scenarios guns are completely necesary. And the the guy I quoted above, are you F***ING serious!? You've got the wrong idea. First of all, break barrel type pellet gun... one break and it can put a pellet into a coyotes heart from 30 yards, or go clean through a bird and 30. A pellet gun is the only weapon where you can carry 1500-2000 'bullets' in a case the size of a deck of cards. Also... YOU PUMP BEFORE HAND FOR CHRIST SAKE! Some of you people are so damned unreasonable. And for who ever said something like "bring a .22 to fight a guy with a .308 and you're out gunned" That is absolute B***S**T!! Have you ever been shot? A .22 to the skull or chest is going to kill you anyways. I hate people who look at 22's as little things. I just wanna shoot em in the got damn leg and show them what a .22 can do. They're smaller, easier to conceal, often fire much faster. You shoot someone with a .22 or a .50 'god damn' cal and either way they're dropping. You have to be freaking realistic. I understand most of you hear what I'm saying but the few who are being freaking unreasonable need to sort things out. I understand the many upsides of guns, and there are much better way to try and sell me your opinion than saying things that make you look like an idiot. Seriously guys, I was making a statement for those retard hardcore kids who think guns are the answer, as well you have to take into considerations, not everyone has a family to protect... and some people would rather run of and live in the woods till the whole thing sorts out... than there are some who wanna live in the cities and fight it out. There are many different scenarios and none have any single right answer.

"Great thread...and i agree with the majority of it.

I can see both sides of it though. The people who run around like wannabe black ops agents, are probably spending far too much money on kit that looks good but would have been beter spent on real survival gear.

The unassuming family guy withthe pellet gun and a backyard full of homegrown veg, is fantastic, and probably a lot more able to survive a bad situation.....however....

If TSHTF and people start banging down your door as they know you have food and they don't, you'd better hope your don't bring your pellet gun to a gunfight, because i guaruntee the intruder won't!

A fine and realistic balance is what is needed.

Being ex forces i spent half my life around weapons, however being in the UK i have to sit down and think to myself, what is more likely to happen in the short term?

Do i spend loads on the few weapons we are allowed in the UK, or would it be better spent on water purifying systems and food for now?

I am looking at certain "tools" for looking after my family, but as martial law is less likely at the moment here in the UK than it is in the US, i'll take it easy with the personal armoury!

It's all about keeping it realistic, and thats where i think some people struggle.

I guess it depends on your surroundings though. I know what my neighbours are like here in my sleepy little village, so i would be unlikely to have any of them storming my house for food.

However if my neighbours were well trained, well armed and well angry....i might reconsider the weapon situation.

CX. "

See this is basically what I'm trying to say, you have to be reasonable and realistic... there is a balance to everything.

reply to post by ganphra13


I get what ur saying,I really do..But with my personal expirience,but if in any sort of sniper Vrs. sniper situation would occur I'll stay behind the reticle of my .300 win mag,and know Ill get you at 300 yards away behind what ever cover you may be behind within reason..And know that the report of my shot will make you think twice about comming any closer..But I also would fear that same .22 when I didnt know it was aimed t me..

I my self have a viriety of weapoms at my disposal,ranging from old trap door springfeilds to top of the line rifles..having them and know when to use them is all part of preparing for the worst..

I'n in no way flammin ya,or the idea of what your getting at..Wich is that some people think that big guns and flashy gear will get you through..When I whent through I'd hate to say it,Sniper School the best canidates by far were the ones who came from working blue collar class familys such as myself who knew how to use what they have instead of just knowing how to have it..I hope that makes sence..

[edit on 6-3-2009 by Redpillblues]

reply to post by ganphra13
No my .30-06 will not get me through. But my survival skills will. Ilearned when i was young to survive in the woods with just a knife. The weapons are just a luxury that i already have, so i will use them.


And i don't have a machete, i have a Ka-Bar!

reply to post by ganphra13

And for who ever said something like "bring a .22 to fight a guy with a .308 and you're out gunned"

What I actually said was ".22 vs. .308 dear rifle, all things being equal, your way outgunned."

All things being equal, and you are. I do, however, agree with the possibility of a .22 being able to get more lead downfield, faster.

That is absolute B***S**T!! Have you ever been shot? A .22 to the skull or chest is going to kill you anyways. I hate people who look at 22's as little things. I just wanna shoot em in the got damn leg and show them what a .22 can do. They're smaller, easier to conceal, often fire much faster. You shoot someone with a .22 or a .50 'god damn' cal and either way they're dropping. You have to be freaking realistic.

Interesting you make that statement so specifically. I have been shot, point blank range, to the back of my skull, with a .22 or .25 after leaving work as a bouncer in a club on the south side of Chicago.
I did not "drop" nor even lose consciousness.

That being said, don't get me wrong. I was extremely lucky, and it was a fluke that I didn't die. The doctors told me how lucky I was repeatedly.

I loaded photo for you in my photo album, I'm pretty sure you can view it by clicking on my profile.

P.S. You don't really want to shoot me in the leg, do you?

HAHA, absolutely not buddy! I'm just saying that you were almost getting out of line with the way you were 'interpreting' my post. Also that's brutal about the whole shot in the head thing, but to be honest that was probably a one in a million chance. 99% of the time if you get shot in the head with any gun, whether .22 or .308, you'll die. Once again, most of the people on this board are gonna do just fine when SHTF but I was directing my post to the people who for some reason feel like they need to set up for a freakin war.

edit: sorry, but I can find that photo on your album!

[edit on 7-3-2009 by ganphra13]

A 308 or a 454 casul is no use at all if you can not see the guy with the 22 hiding in the shrubs or shadows as you move, most modern urban combat take place at ranges less than 50 yards , that puts both people on equal terms. In the rural world in a wooded area or farm yard or rocckescarpment again both are on equal terms. So the 308 only has the advantage ( generally) when wide open spaces are available. Few survivalists are going to build retreats in wide open spaces.

reply to post by Northern Raider

Your shotgun is good for 50 yards, after that your outclassed by most weapons.

And who’d try to take a 50 yard plus shot with a shotgun?
Not me, or anyone I know, lol.
No, I wouldn’t use my shotgun for long range - but - IMO a shotgun is the best defense weapon out there.
If it’s used within range obviously.
Long range attacks I just don’t see happening in my scenario considering I wouldn’t ever camp-rest on the ground or in open cover.
If someone can get close enough to surprise me - they’ll be close enough to be surprised by my sawed-off.

Ref your last comment "So, it's you and me up against one another in a hunt, or protecting our families, and now, I know I'm going to win."
You have to see your target before you can hit it, so you do NOT know you are going to win,

Yes, and if I can see a guy with a pellet gun and I’m packing* a shotgun - he’s going to loose.

The guy with the tactical advantage is going to win, be it who draws first if you are a daft cowboy type, or the guy with the single shot cross bow, or an archer with a recurve, if he can see you but you can not see him you are dead. A big gun does not equate to victory.

Agreed on all points.
But that isn’t what we were talking about.
I was speaking directly to pellet gun vs. .22 or shotgun.
There is no comparison, IMO, regardless of all the new bells and whistles modern day pellet guns might have.
They’re still a pellet gun vs. a .22 or a shotgun.
If they were better than either of my preference you can believe they'd fall under the same regulations as a .22.

peace


[edit on 7-3-2009 by silo13]

I wouldn't mind some power armor or a gauss rifle in my survival pack :p